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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Is Real Change Possible? 
#2092544 - 11/11/03 01:04 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seems people are only able to affect real change AFTER some major shock; whether it is illness, divorce, death of a loved one, physical trauma, job or material loss, getting caught in a crime, psychedelic experience; etc.
Has anyone here experience such change through their own volition? What was the change, how long did it take and what was your methodology?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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 Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092548 - 11/11/03 01:05 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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how can change not be a shock? It's different, right, and the more dramatic and therefore classifiable as a change the more shocking right?
thanks for coming out...
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2092587 - 11/11/03 01:14 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have dramatically changed my lifestyle.. which has changed the course of my life. but then life is inherently traumatic, especially when you have your nuts removed when your 14 years old
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2092611 - 11/11/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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but seriously dude, the ancient sages believed that things switched to their opposite when they were taken to the extreme in any direction. So shock would be an obvious indicator of this kind of thing. The death of a loved one could be the extreme experience of emotional connectedness blah blah blah you see where this is going.. basically if there's a shock then it forces change to happen because situations change so dramatically,
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David_Scape
Anti Genius
Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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 Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092683 - 11/11/03 01:34 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah, you would expect with our 'higher' awareness of our behavior and enviroment that we'd be able to change without a huge emotional primer. I think we can, but i think it requires a certain endurance and cognitive flexibility.
It's obvious enough that change can happen in structured enviroments like boot-camps and inpatient clinics but even then, they are still facilitating change by simply changing enviroment(with boot-camps you might call it 'adapting' more than changing.). It still takes lots of leg work. Im suprised there isnt more specialized types of enviroments.
Im curious about other peoples experience with this topic as well.
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092695 - 11/11/03 01:36 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have recently "changed". After a somewhat painful breakup in April, I've been continually harassed and verbally abused. For a long time, the hateful things this person was saying to me affected me greatly, causing a lot of inner turmoil and serious damaging my self-esteem, causing me to doubt even my own thoughts. Just recently, in the last few weeks actually, I had two rather epic mushroom trips which allowed me to let go of much of my hurt and anger. I've learned not to allow his words to affect me anymore, as they are just intended to make me upset in the first place. On top of that, I have become more empathetic in general and actually feel hopeful for the future for the first time in awhile. I've also noticed I'm not so quick to lose my temper anymore.
So maybe its possible....we'll see if this lasts. 
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092727 - 11/11/03 01:43 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey Swam, nice to see you. I see things worked themselves out.
Your question dismisses the fact that even though something extraordinary initiated the process, volition still played a role. Otherwise, when faced with those situations, everyone would just continue on the path they were going.
However, to answer your question directly let me share one such change in my life (there have been many).
There was a time when I was married to an obese woman. She was a porker. You know, a pig, a moo-cow, an oinker, a beached whale. Five foot six inches and a hefty two hundred and seventy-five pounds. She loved junk food, especially candy. She sat on the couch all day eating candy and watching soap operas.
At the time I was a little large myself due to my two favorite foods, pizza and beer. So I attempted to show her, by example, just how easy it was to loose weight. I immediately designed a diet that was mostly vegetarian and lost seventy-five pounds in a year. I started at two hundred and twenty-five pounds and ended at one hundred and forty-five pounds. (I am a little over six foot in height.)
I did this without any trauma of any sort initiating the process.
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
#2092743 - 11/11/03 01:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I started at two hundred and twenty-five pounds and ended at one hundred and forty-five pounds. (I am a little over six foot in height.)"
gross man, get back on that pizza and beer diet
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2092761 - 11/11/03 01:52 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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I regained 40 pounds later.
She lost not an ounce.
Later I divorced her. (Can you blame me?)
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
#2092774 - 11/11/03 01:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'd divorce a fat chick RIGHT NOw
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
#2092780 - 11/11/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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There was a time when I was married to an obese woman. She was a porker. You know, a pig, a moo-cow, an oinker, a beached whale.
Could you give an analogy to describe her? Perhaps compare her to some farm animal... Did she shop at Tents R Us? Had her own zip code?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
#2092782 - 11/11/03 01:56 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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if u don't mind my inquiring,
was she that overweight when u married/(fell in love ?) with her ?
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092784 - 11/11/03 01:57 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude, our bathtub had stretch marks.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: lucid]
#2092791 - 11/11/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, of course she was waaaaaaaaay thinner. I always said she married me and had an affair with the refrigerator.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
#2092793 - 11/11/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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LOL!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092794 - 11/11/03 01:59 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Swami: Has anyone here experience such change through their own volition? What was the change, how long did it take and what was your methodology?
Mr_M:Your question dismisses the fact that even though something extraordinary initiated the process, volition still played a role. Otherwise, when faced with those situations, everyone would just continue on the path they were going.
I'm with MM on this, volition is always playing a role.
But... change by volition ALONE? Hmm
I'm not even sure what this means. Where does one draw the line between the external and the internal? Answer this first and I can answer your question.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#2092805 - 11/11/03 02:00 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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P.S. You fuckers are funny.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#2092808 - 11/11/03 02:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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The difference between internal and external forces is the line between hard and soft determinism. Like you probably, I think both are a crock.
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#2092809 - 11/11/03 02:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mr mushrooms.. are you, y'know one of those jerks who are mean to fat women and can't see beyond superficial things
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
#2092811 - 11/11/03 02:02 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I have experienced a change in both myself and those around me, my closest friends.
It has taken years.
What was the change? Our outlook on life, and our perception of the world. I think we are all better people now.
The change spreads, too. Knowledge is contagious and addictive. What started with me wanting to help ONE FRIEND turned into an ever-growing group of good people
Again, this has taken me years.
But it's worth it. It's very worth it.
Yes, you can affect real change!
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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