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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Is Real Change Possible?
    #2092544 - 11/11/03 03:04 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Seems people are only able to affect real change AFTER some major shock; whether it is illness, divorce, death of a loved one, physical trauma, job or material loss, getting caught in a crime, psychedelic experience; etc.

Has anyone here experience such change through their own volition? What was the change, how long did it take and what was your methodology?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092548 - 11/11/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

how can change not be a shock? It's different, right, and the more dramatic and therefore classifiable as a change the more shocking right?


thanks for coming out...


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2092587 - 11/11/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I have dramatically changed my lifestyle.. which has changed the course of my life. but then life is inherently traumatic, especially when you have your nuts removed when your 14 years old


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2092611 - 11/11/03 03:18 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

but seriously dude, the ancient sages believed that things switched to their opposite when they were taken to the extreme in any direction. So shock would be an obvious indicator of this kind of thing. The death of a loved one could be the extreme experience of emotional connectedness blah blah blah you see where this is going.. basically if there's a shock then it forces change to happen because situations change so dramatically,


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092683 - 11/11/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

yeah, you would expect with our 'higher' awareness of our behavior and enviroment that we'd be able to change without a huge emotional primer. I think we can, but i think it requires a certain endurance and cognitive flexibility.
It's obvious enough that change can happen in structured enviroments like boot-camps and inpatient clinics but even then, they are still facilitating change by simply changing enviroment(with boot-camps you might call it 'adapting' more than changing.). It still takes lots of leg work. Im suprised there isnt more specialized types of enviroments.
Im curious about other peoples experience with this topic as well.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092695 - 11/11/03 03:36 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I have recently "changed". After a somewhat painful breakup in April, I've been continually harassed and verbally abused. For a long time, the hateful things this person was saying to me affected me greatly, causing a lot of inner turmoil and serious damaging my self-esteem, causing me to doubt even my own thoughts. Just recently, in the last few weeks actually, I had two rather epic mushroom trips which allowed me to let go of much of my hurt and anger. I've learned not to allow his words to affect me anymore, as they are just intended to make me upset in the first place. On top of that, I have become more empathetic in general and actually feel hopeful for the future for the first time in awhile. I've also noticed I'm not so quick to lose my temper anymore.

So maybe its possible....we'll see if this lasts. :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092727 - 11/11/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Hey Swam, nice to see you. I see things worked themselves out.

Your question dismisses the fact that even though something extraordinary initiated the process, volition still played a role. Otherwise, when faced with those situations, everyone would just continue on the path they were going.

However, to answer your question directly let me share one such change in my life (there have been many).

There was a time when I was married to an obese woman. She was a porker. You know, a pig, a moo-cow, an oinker, a beached whale. Five foot six inches and a hefty two hundred and seventy-five pounds. She loved junk food, especially candy. She sat on the couch all day eating candy and watching soap operas.

At the time I was a little large myself due to my two favorite foods, pizza and beer. So I attempted to show her, by example, just how easy it was to loose weight. I immediately designed a diet that was mostly vegetarian and lost seventy-five pounds in a year. I started at two hundred and twenty-five pounds and ended at one hundred and forty-five pounds. (I am a little over six foot in height.)

I did this without any trauma of any sort initiating the process.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
    #2092743 - 11/11/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

"I started at two hundred and twenty-five pounds and ended at one hundred and forty-five pounds. (I am a little over six foot in height.)"

gross man, get back on that pizza and beer diet


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Anonymous

Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2092761 - 11/11/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I regained 40 pounds later.

She lost not an ounce.

Later I divorced her. (Can you blame me?)


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
    #2092774 - 11/11/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I'd divorce a fat chick RIGHT NOw


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
    #2092780 - 11/11/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

There was a time when I was married to an obese woman. She was a porker. You know, a pig, a moo-cow, an oinker, a beached whale.

Could you give an analogy to describe her? Perhaps compare her to some farm animal... Did she shop at Tents R Us? Had her own zip code?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
    #2092782 - 11/11/03 03:56 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

if u don't mind my inquiring,
was she that overweight when u married/(fell in love ?) with her ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Anonymous

Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092784 - 11/11/03 03:57 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Dude, our bathtub had stretch marks.


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Anonymous

Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: lucid]
    #2092791 - 11/11/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

No, of course she was waaaaaaaaay thinner. I always said she married me and had an affair with the refrigerator.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: ]
    #2092793 - 11/11/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

LOL!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092794 - 11/11/03 03:59 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Swami: Has anyone here experience such change through their own volition? What was the change, how long did it take and what was your methodology?
Mr_M:Your question dismisses the fact that even though something extraordinary initiated the process, volition still played a role. Otherwise, when faced with those situations, everyone would just continue on the path they were going.

I'm with MM on this, volition is always playing a role.
But... change by volition ALONE? Hmm
I'm not even sure what this means. Where does one draw the line between the external and the internal? Answer this first and I can answer your question.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2092805 - 11/11/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

P.S. You fuckers are funny.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2092808 - 11/11/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

The difference between internal and external forces is the line between hard and soft determinism. Like you probably, I think both are a crock.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2092809 - 11/11/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Mr mushrooms.. are you, y'know one of those jerks who are mean to fat women and can't see beyond superficial things


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Is Real Change Possible? [Re: Swami]
    #2092811 - 11/11/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Well I have experienced a change in both myself and those around me, my closest friends.

It has taken years.

What was the change? Our outlook on life, and our perception of the world. I think we are all better people now.

The change spreads, too. Knowledge is contagious and addictive. What started with me wanting to help ONE FRIEND turned into an ever-growing group of good people :smile:

Again, this has taken me years.

But it's worth it. It's very worth it.

Yes, you can affect real change!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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