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OfflineRonoS
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Is there an IT union?
    #2091857 - 11/11/03 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I wasn't sure where to post this, but this seemed as good a spot as any...

My question is: Do you know of any existing IT unions that are designed to protect the rights of the IT worker? Obviously there are more IT professionals than ever before, and chances are you are one of them, or know a few of them. I have worked in the IT industry for about 4 years and have worked at a variety of companies...and have noticed that at a few of them, the working conditions and pay were absolutely brutal.

I have hashed the idea around of starting getting all of the employees to join a union, or if it comes down to it, to start one of their own.

Does anybody have any input on this?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (11/11/03 01:26 PM)


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Offlinegeorgewash
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Registered: 01/22/99
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Rono]
    #2095445 - 11/12/03 04:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think its a great idea..I've worked in technology for a while and to my knowledge no one has formed any major tech union which I think is a damn shame. Its sad to see IT workers get taken advantage of and have our jobs shipped over to india. Sad state of affairs...

g-dub


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: georgewash]
    #2097845 - 11/12/03 05:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Hmmm...anybody know anything about how to start a union?...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Rono]
    #2099408 - 11/13/03 12:32 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If your worth at least your weight in salt as an IT professional you don't need a union. I quadrupled my pay in about 5 years, what union will do that for you?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Evolving]
    #2102338 - 11/13/03 05:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

My pay right now is just fine...that's not the issue.

But there are alot of people out there, that are working in shitty conditions for shitty wages...and sad fact is that there is not alot of IT jobs out there right now, so most have no chance of going to another company.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinegeorgewash
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Evolving]
    #2104199 - 11/14/03 01:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
If your worth at least your weight in salt as an IT professional you don't need a union. I quadrupled my pay in about 5 years, what union will do that for you?




While this may have been true in the past its definately changing.. There are thousands of unemployed tech workers out there right now who are experts in a myriad of different fields. An IT union may have helped stem the tide of jobs being shipped to foreign countries. Having no accountability just a few major companies that are shipping our jobs overseas are... Microsoft, Intel, Citigroup (C: Research, Estimates), Hewlett-Packard (HPQ: Research, Estimates), Procter & Gamble (PG: Research, Estimates), AT&T (T: Research, Estimates) and AIG (AIG: Research, Estimates) --

$20 an hour is a damn good salary in India and, and companies think they can settle for less then great work when they can get work done overseas for less then half of what it would cost to have the work done in the US for.

"Over the next 15 years, 3.3 million U.S. service industry jobs and $136 billion in wages will move offshore to countries like India, Russia, China and the Philippines," Forrester analyst John McCarthy predicted in a report last year. "The IT industry will lead the initial overseas exodus."

If IT workers aren't concerned about their jobs right now they definately should be. Granted this isn't going to effect everyone, but it will definately affect a LOT of people in the industry.

Overall I think its so sad that americans helped get these companies to where they are and in the end companies are only concerned with the bottom line.

? I bought my first house in 1999 -- that was a very big deal for me -- and now I have to sell it, only because they won't hire Americans. It's devastating. ?
Donna Bradley,
Unemployed IT specialist in Mesa, Ariz.

Then again I'm sure all these people losing jobs aren't worth their weight in salt... Yeah...

g-dub


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: georgewash]
    #2105066 - 11/14/03 06:49 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> are thousands of unemployed tech workers out there right now who are experts in a myriad of different fields.

My experience has been that there are thousands of unemployed tech workers out that that think they are experts. I have met very few unemployed techs that were worth hiring. Most of them have certifications out the wazoo, but can't figure out where the power button is on the monitor.

A good example, I interviewed a guy just a few months ago for a network position that had a CCNA certification. When I showed him a network layout and asked him to locate the switches and routers on the plan, he could not. He also could not tell me when he should use a router as opposed to a switch. I asked him how he passed the cisco tests, and he answered, "Oh, I just memorized everything before the test. It wasn't that hard, really." Needless to say, he didn't get the job.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinegeorgewash
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Seuss]
    #2106693 - 11/14/03 04:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I definately agree with you that certs are useless, the people that i know who have certs are usually not nearly as intelligent and experienced as the people I know who don't have certs...The odd thing is a lot of companies still put stock in certifications. That being said, I'm not sure where you are from but regardless of skill level California is getting hit damn hard with jobs being shipped off shore...

g-dub


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: georgewash]
    #2108620 - 11/15/03 08:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Most of the offshore job moves that I have seen have been for either programmers or help desk people... offshore == india, pretty much. No offense meant, but I have yet to see a single programmer from India that was worth a plane ticket and the people answering the help desk phone are very difficult to understand, and of little use.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is there an IT union? [Re: Seuss]
    #2119511 - 11/18/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
... I have yet to see a single programmer from India that was worth a plane ticket and the people answering the help desk phone are very difficult to understand, and of little use.   



I agree.  I have one client who tried outsourcing to a company that did programming in India, it didn't work out well.  They could not interface with the programmers and quality went to shit, they are back to using local people :smirk:.  Programming for end users is an iterative process and to effectively address the needs and desires of the users requires frequent (and clear)communication. 


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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