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Invisibletrekie
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: koods] * 5
    #20912850 - 12/01/14 03:20 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Just what this site needs another sex offender as a mod  :cookiemonster:


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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: trekie]
    #20912893 - 12/01/14 03:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Everything is porn to somebody


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: trekie]
    #20912941 - 12/01/14 03:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

trekie said:
Just what this site needs another sex offender as a mod  :cookiemonster:




:rofl2:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: trekie]
    #20913041 - 12/01/14 04:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Translation: "I've been to 3 other countries. I was in a couple stores in each country, and even though I didn't actually check their refund policies, I'm going to make up my own facts, and apply it to the entire world."




I've actually been to over 20 different countries. And no, none of them had a refund "culture" like America did.

Quote:

trekie said:
Since you mentioned Costco you do realize they are turning out good profits and are paying there employees higher then average wage.  Have a very high retention rate

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cost/financials

Nope no economic ruin there just more bull pulled from where the sun dont shine.

Maybe REI is the reason oh wait they had over 2 billion in sales last year.
http://www.rei.com/about-rei/newsroom/2014/rei-sales-top--2-billion-in-2013.html




REI has 2 billion in sales because they sell extremely high-end sports equipment. Think of it as the Louis Vuitton or Rolex of sports equipment. Whereas a place like Big 5 makes cheaper, knock-off brand, sports equipment.

I strongly believe the reason Loehmann's went out of business was because of their ridiculous refund demands. Loehmann's sold brand-name goods for extremely competitive prices. The problem was, so many people returned items that they had no business returning. Shoes that had clearly been stepped in mud or rain, clothing items that hadn't even been in the store for over 2 years, even clothing that smelled like cigarettes. People would buy prom or cocktail gowns and then return them after they had worn them out on the town.

Basically, these customers' strategy was to scream and throw a temper tantrum until the manager finally agreed to get them to go away.


Quote:


Yeah finical ruin for sure . Damn Republicans. 




Hilarious that you called me a Republican. :lol:

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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: D.M.T]
    #20913053 - 12/01/14 04:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
I'd say the Japanese are more reluctant to take refunds unless it's faulty, but I read something on this about 3 months ago on JapanToday.com like I said which indicated they have the same problem. The people who comment on that site are expatriates living in Japan, and generally critical of Japan, but they do offer a sense of reality on the country.




They must be talking about Japanese stores in America, such as Kinokuniya or Mitsuwa. A lot of Japanese people who work at those places complain about how Americans buy things at their market, eat all of it, and then come back and demand a refund because they didn't like it. The sick part is they get it too.

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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913056 - 12/01/14 04:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

No, they weren't. America is not Japan. That's not how that website works.

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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Confucian]
    #20913076 - 12/01/14 04:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
In order to make an opinion on what drives the US economy (largest in the world at $17,000,000,000,000 GDP) you should gather some facts.

I found an article that says return fraud costs retailers $9 billion a year.

So basically zero effect on a $17 trillion economy.

To put in more understandable terms, imagine the US is a $17,000 economy. Return fraud would cost US retailers $90.

This is dumber than people bashing food stamp recipients because it costs $85 billion a year, again, absolutely nothing in a $3.8 trillion government budget.

At the end of the day, retailers price their items based on their balance sheets. So every $1 is taken into account before they slap a price tag on their items. Return policies and return fraud are already priced in.




Return FRAUD is not the same thing as what I'm talking about. Return fraud for example, is when people intentionally cheat companies by stealing products or stealing receipts from the store, and then returning them for store credit and cash.

Return fraud is not the same thing as returning something that you bought previously at the store and already ate or used to pieces, which is what I'm talking about. How much this costs, I suspect, is a lot more than what return fraud costs.

I believe the actual term for what I'm talking about is called chargeback fraud or consumer fraud or something else.

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: D.M.T]
    #20913100 - 12/01/14 04:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

U.S. minimum wage workers are in fact, the laziest, and provide the most crappy customer service, because of the fact that they have no incentive and therefore don't give a shit.




DO you have any proof of that?

Insulting the USA without proof? That's so incredibly low... Don't sink to my level.

Quote:

Rather, I believe what is truly destroying the economy is America's ridiculous refund policy.




lol.

Because of course absolutely EVERYBODY buys shit and then immediately returns it after he used it. Its not a problem at all... Like it doesn't even contribute to the problem... Its called customer service. Every item you return without question will increase your sales in the long run due t customer satisfaction. If it was so damaging, corporations would stop accepting returns.

The rule of thumb is: If a business does something, its because its profitable.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913113 - 12/01/14 04:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Also, that "$9 billion" figure you posted only comes from a survey of 60 retail firms. It does not include the total figure of return fraud that is happening in all retailers nationwide.

Basically, this methodology of survey is about as accurate as the Dow Jones. The Dow Jones only calculates like the top 30-50 companies. The S&P500 at the very least, calculates 500.

Quote:

This month, the National Retail Federation estimated return fraud's annual cost at $8.9 billion, according to a survey of 60 retail firms. Of that amount, $2.9 billion will come during the holiday season.



Edited by Crystal G (12/01/14 04:42 PM)

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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Patlal]
    #20913117 - 12/01/14 04:19 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Well out of all the countries I've been, the people in the Pacific (Fiji, Vanuatu) seem like they're the laziest. Just hanging around those guys for a while gave me the vibe that they don't accomplish much over there.

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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Patlal]
    #20913126 - 12/01/14 04:22 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Every item you return without question will increase your sales in the long run due t customer satisfaction. If it was so damaging, corporations would stop accepting returns.

The rule of thumb is: If a business does something, its because its profitable.




No it doesn't. Only a certain type of people commit this type of outlandish returns, and these people do not drive the profits up for business in any way.

These American customers will basically just scream and bitch until the manager gets sick and tired of them, and just decides to refund them to get them out of their store. That's usually what happens.

I am not saying to get rid of refund policies. Typically managers will often OVERRIDE store refund policy just to give these assholes their money back.

Edited by Crystal G (12/01/14 04:28 PM)

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913157 - 12/01/14 04:30 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Every item you return without question will increase your sales in the long run due t customer satisfaction. If it was so damaging, corporations would stop accepting returns.

The rule of thumb is: If a business does something, its because its profitable.




No it doesn't. Only a certain type of people commit this type of outlandish returns, and these people do not drive the profits up for business in any way.

These American customers will basically just scream and bitch until the manager gets sick and tired of them, and just decides to refund them to get them out of their store. That's usually what happens.




Its an incredibly small percentage of people. Its like coupon shoppers. The option is there, but only a very small percetange use the option.

Most people don't have time or motivation to return an item. The trash can is closer.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Patlal]
    #20913172 - 12/01/14 04:33 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Its an incredibly small percentage of people. Its like coupon shoppers. The option is there, but only a very small percetange use the option.

Most people don't have time or motivation to return an item. The trash can is closer.




You live in Canada. I know people who have worked for Loehmann's at customer service. Some stores get literally dozens, maybe around 100 people each day, demanding returns for clothing that smelled like cigarettes, had cat hair all over it, that they had bought a year ago, etc.

That's why Loehmann's went bankrupt, even though they sold lots of designer wear for extremely cheap and had lots of shoppers.

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913181 - 12/01/14 04:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Its an incredibly small percentage of people. Its like coupon shoppers. The option is there, but only a very small percetange use the option.

Most people don't have time or motivation to return an item. The trash can is closer.




You live in Canada. I know people who have worked for Loehmann's at customer service. Some stores get literally dozens, maybe around 100 people each day, demanding returns for clothing that smelled like cigarettes, had cat hair all over it, that they had bought a year ago, etc.

That's why Loehmann's went bankrupt.




Take a look at Walmart.

You can return anything at walmart without question. You have the reciept? You're good to go.

Hundreds of returns per day.

Tens of thousands of sale per day.

Hell they even match competitor promotions.

If you go bankrupt from accepting returns, you either sell extremely shitty product or you have a retarded return policy


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Patlal]
    #20913205 - 12/01/14 04:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

An ex from many years ago surprised me when I got a letter in the mailbox from a lawyer in Florida saying that she'd been stealing from Wal-Mart. It turned out her boyfriend was addicted to "Spice" and was stealing things from Wal-mart, then returning them. Even without a receipt they apparently paid him.

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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #20913206 - 12/01/14 04:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Also, that "$9 billion" figure you posted only comes from a survey of 60 retail firms. It does not include the total figure of return fraud that is happening in all retailers nationwide.

Basically, this methodology of survey is about as accurate as the Dow Jones. The Dow Jones only calculates like the top 30-50 companies. The S&P500 at the very least, calculates 500.

Quote:

This month, the National Retail Federation estimated return fraud's annual cost at $8.9 billion, according to a survey of 60 retail firms. Of that amount, $2.9 billion will come during the holiday season.







The Dow Jones tracks 30 companies. They aren't the largest 30 companies. Just a good sample across all sectors of the US economy. Apple/Google are not in the Dow 30.

The S&P 500 is an index of 500 companies.

Last, surveys are accurate. It is science/math. Every single number you get is from a survey. Have you not taken a statistics class yet? (you should, they are really fun.)

Surveys/stats are what auto manufacturers use when they come up with their miles per gallon, insurance companies use them to calculate premiums and make sure they are profiting, GDP/unemployment/payrolls/etc., all come from surveys. It's why when only 2% of the vote is in they can already call the election.

When a tire company has a 50,000 mile warranty (or any warranty in existence for that matter) it is based on a survey. They take a small sample, find out how often the thing breaks, and will create a warranty ensuring only a very tiny percentage (from survey) get the warranty coverage.

Oh, and what do you mean by "this methodology of survey is about as accurate as the Dow Jones"? That doesn't even make sense.

Edited by Confucian (12/01/14 04:40 PM)

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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Patlal]
    #20913220 - 12/01/14 04:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Take a look at Walmart.

You can return anything at walmart without question. You have the reciept? You're good to go.

Hundreds of returns per day.

Tens of thousands of sale per day.

Hell they even match competitor promotions.




Walmart is a mega-corporation that has slowly taken over the world. You see, Walmart can afford to do that because they pay their employees a pittance. What they don't realize is, their employees steal from the company pretty much all the time to make up for their salary. And Walmart ends up costing taxpayers several billions dollars a year in welfare.

Ghetto people shop at Walmart. That is why Walmart is so successful at doing that.

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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913230 - 12/01/14 04:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I shop at Walmart. Guess I'm ghetto and lower class than you because it's the most economical and variable option for me.

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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Confucian]
    #20913237 - 12/01/14 04:45 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Last, surveys are accurate. It is science/math. Every single number you get is from a survey. Have you not taken a statistics class yet? (you should, they are really fun.)

Surveys/stats are what auto manufacturers use when they come up with their miles per gallon, insurance companies use them to calculate premiums and make sure they are profiting, GDP/unemployment/payrolls/etc., all come from surveys. It's why when only 2% of the vote is in they can already call the election.

When a tire company has a 50,000 mile warranty (or any warranty in existence for that matter) it is based on a survey. They take a small sample, find out how often the thing breaks, and will create a warranty ensuring only a very tiny percentage (from survey) get the warranty coverage.

Oh, and what do you mean by "this methodology of survey is about as accurate as the Dow Jones"? That doesn't even make sense.




Here's the thing. I know from having worked in retail, that customers will often tell the customer service manager that the "device doesn't work" or the "clothing didn't fit me," when in reality they want to create a fake excuse to get their money back.

The customer service person will then input into the computer that the "size didn't fit," or the "device is defective" into the computer system, without ever checking first to see if it really works or not. Especially for large corporations such as Target or Walmart, this is how the return policy works.

This type of input system actually skews the real numbers of consumer fraud down a lot more than it really is. That's why I'm saying merely looking at the numbers only, is a flawed analysis.

Of course I've taken statistics classes, every college student has taken statistics classes. :facepalm: I've also taken methodology classes, and I strongly suggest you have a go at those too, to analyze what "statistics" mean and how they can change with different methods of calculation.

Hence why the CPI is a faulty method of analysis, because it doesn't calculate healthcare, rent, or gasoline prices into inflation. Inflation is really actually a lot more than 2-3% if you calculate it in a different way.

Edited by Crystal G (12/01/14 04:56 PM)

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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: I Disagree that Security of Job Employment Destroys the Economy [Re: Crystal G]
    #20913263 - 12/01/14 04:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'm still not sure what makes you think this would be limited to America. Japan takes faulty things back, and the Japanese aren't as meticulous as they want you to believe.

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