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maddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
#19385531 - 01/07/14 10:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: If you think you need ergot or ergotamine to make LSD, you're in the dark.
If you are talking about converting LSA into LSD, that is a much more unstable process. And would take much more skill to complete. Other than that, I can't think of any other viable source for LSD. Since the origin of whatever you are using would have to come from one of those two sources. Unless you know of another natural source of LSD and are holding out on us...
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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s240779

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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
#19385557 - 01/07/14 10:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah. And I don't recall Shulgin saying anything about unreliability in TIHKAL, part 1 (the part not available online).
Another thing I was referring to is Sleepy Grass.
Another thing I was referring to is that I think Pickard determined ergocristine to be more efficient than ergotamine; and sleepy grass has the highest ergocristine content, I think.
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maddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
#19385744 - 01/07/14 11:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah. And I don't recall Shulgin saying anything about unreliability in TIHKAL, part 1 (the part not available online).
Another thing I was referring to is Sleepy Grass.
Another thing I was referring to is that I think Pickard determined ergocristine to be more efficient than ergotamine; and sleepy grass has the highest ergocristine content, I think.
That would be all well and good if ergocristine wasn't scheduled as a precursor, and the purchase of sleepy grass monitored. It is just like they are busting people for mimosa root back and the powder. Plus you would have to go through the whole extracting of the ergocristine from the sleepy grass.
And LSA might not be unreliable when you are a chemistry genius as Shulgin was. But I can assure you it definitely would be for someone else.
I honestly think you are quite naive concerning this subject. I don't mean to be rude, but to say a ten year old can do it... Come on. Many have mentioned, as well as myself, that if it were that easy more people would be doing it. And I am sure that there are plenty on here who have tried or thought about it. And I'm pretty sure no one on the shroomery is an LSD chemist.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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Mad Season
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
#19386562 - 01/08/14 05:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Stupid to think a 10 year old could. Maybe a 10 year old with an extreme knowledge of chemistry. Sure he could follow the directions... until something goes wrong or something unexpected happens where he'll have to readjust levels of the compounds needed to keep everything stable. Sometimes it requires a keen eye, one that's done A LOT of chemistry so the kid wouldn't lose limbs here.
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Deathcore
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Mad Season]
#19389000 - 01/08/14 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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man id rule the world if i could create it...
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Kman1898
Dr. Learn'd



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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: koods] 1
#19666771 - 03/08/14 08:58 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah. And I don't recall Shulgin saying anything about unreliability in TIHKAL, part 1 (the part not available online).
Another thing I was referring to is Sleepy Grass.
Another thing I was referring to is that I think Pickard determined ergocristine to be more efficient than ergotamine; and sleepy grass has the highest ergocristine content, I think.
He simply used ergocristine because his ergotamine tartrate was getting harder to obtain and his supplier got ergocristine readily for $2,500 a kilo.
Also don't use Shulgin when talking about ergolines...no offense but he knows very little. He didn't execute most of the lysergamide syntheses he had put into TiHKAL. He even explicitly mentions at one point in the first half of the book how most of his lysergamides such as LSD, AL-LAD, PRO-LAD and so on were obtained from other labs. Not to mention all his synths in PiHKAL and TiHKAL are way more complex and use costly ingredients that other more simple synths don't.
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Da2ra said: LSD itself causes somatic effects like vasoconstriction.[1] Adverse effects of bad acid could result simply from other ergoloids increasing those somatic effects which are already present. Only a little bit of this or that chemical would be required to increase the effects to a level which causes discomfort. Just a guess.
[1] See page 775.
Stoll, A. and Hofmann, A. (1965) The ergot alkaloids: R.H.F. Manske (ed.), The Alkaloids, Vol. VIII, Academic Press, New York, Chap. 21
Even if theoretically a chemist did synthesize 100% (+)-D-LSD, theoretically there is always going to be some form of degradation (unless you can keep it -20 celcius from the time of laying the blotter to the time someone doses or some other miracle.) If the chemists nowadays push out product anywhere near as quick as they used to, you can imagine they are going to cut corners here and there, or not always have the same chemical reactions, resulting in (+)-D-LSD along with its isomers only. We've studied the isomers of LSD, they don't do shit.
I've talked with Dr. Dave Nichols explicitly on the subject matter of receptor effects he said, "No, we actually screened iso-LSD and it doesn’t have significant affinity for any receptors. I had wondered whether contamination by iso-LSD might change the character of LSD’s effect, but that doesn’t seem possible." Since iso-LSD is the only isomer that can be synthesized along with the active (+)-D-LSD in most common syntheses done, the only way to get L-LSD is by treating an ergot with hydrazine hydrate to prepare lysergic acid hydrazide, and thence to LSD (or iso-LSD), Hofmann’s original method. The hydrazine racemizes the carbon at C5. Lumi-LSD only appears as a result of time and storage but it also has no effect. An LSD synthesis using PyBOP has been done in a Casey Hardison's own house before. Sure, he went to prison for it as these things aren't legal, but based on the pictures released it was actually quite impressive. This route would result in a fair bit of iso-LSD and poor yield yet the end product has been proven through not only the power of science, but the same empirical data that many rely on, there were no known physical effects. I don't recall exactly what the results were but they are widely available online (something like 76-84% (+)-D-LSD was the end product. Even that was probably a guess by the him and not based on fact admittedly.)
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koods said:
Quote:
Da2ra said: If you think you need ergot or ergotamine to make LSD, you're in the dark.
Well, I'm sure there are other routes. And speaking of in the dark... You have do some of the LSD synthesis in the dark.
If LSD were an easy synth to do, this country would be awash in LSD. Considering how difficult it seems to be to find legitimate acid these days, I would say there aren't too many folks making the stuff.
Also just one rebuttal to this.... This is from an interview with Owsely Stanley, "I called you a chemist because that is what you are referred to in most literature. Also, I assumed anyone making acid had to be a chemist, considering the fact that every time manufacturing is mentioned they always go on about how hard it is to produce it." asked the interviewer.
Owsley's reply, "Difficulty has more to do with reading ability and ability to precisely follow directions, so far as I can see. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. I had only one semester of inorganic chemistry 11 years earlier. It took me just three weeks in a library to learn all the principles I needed to do what I had to do, including how to change standard glassware to make it work better. Simple really. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge." So yes "technically" anyone can do it. Whether or not your average person will go through all these necessary steps to achieve synthesizing LSD is truly up to their motivation.
-------------------- Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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s240779

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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Kman1898]
#19666793 - 03/08/14 09:12 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Great post, Kman1898, especially the Owsely quote (what's the source?) In regard to the side reactants debate, consider the following info:
The one time I worked with champagne crystal I felt like I was poisoned. It was black nasty shit and I only ate a tiny speck not a thumbprint.
chinacat72, 2/2/04, Re: LSD death
Different grades of crystal: LSD-Crystal to blotter Use the following link if you don't have access to the Other Drugs forum: /forums/showflat.php/Number/15853923#15853923
At burning man he knowingly gave away a really bad batch of LSD; you know the muddy black stuff. It caused several people to go into convulsions.
Krystle Cole speaking about Todd Skinner, circa ~2005, James Kent interviews Krystal Cole
Only ~30% of the the crude product is LSD, the rest are these inactive isomers and some side reaction products as well. These impurities are only inactive in the brain, they have many effects on the body that contribute to the "body load" or "roughness" of the trip. I am certain that "bad acid" is unpurified crude product, containing a mixture of the aforementioned molecules and LSD. Acid needs to be purified via chromatography twice, once on silica to remove the side reaction products and leftover reactants, and a second time using a chiral substrate to separate the active isomers from the inactive ones. Large, professional labs could easily accomplish this, but smaller, less professional labs might forgo this and create what you call "bad acid".
I am a chemist who has illicitly synthesized d-lysergic acid diethylamide AMA (AMA = ask me anything) hofmannwouldbeproud 1/2/14
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koods
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
#19666836 - 03/08/14 09:30 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Owsley's reply, "Difficulty has more to do with reading ability and ability to precisely follow directions, so far as I can see. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C
Nice quote. This doesn't mean shit. Precisely following directions rarely will get you all the way to a final product. No two setups are the same, and if you have little understanding of what is happening in a procedure, you are completely unable to respond to anything that goes off script - and when you do chemistry, there will always be things that go off script.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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fapjack
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: koods]
#19666856 - 03/08/14 09:38 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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You could probably teach yourself how to make LSD if you had unlimited resources.
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koods
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: fapjack] 1
#19666870 - 03/08/14 09:41 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you had unlimited resources, and you couldn't do it, then you probably can't do anything right.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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psi
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: koods] 1
#19666882 - 03/08/14 09:45 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Plus with truly unlimited resources you wouldn't have to make it at all because you could have as much as you wanted already.
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fapjack
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: psi]
#19666903 - 03/08/14 09:51 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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The synthesis doesn't look as complicated as everyone always says it is. I think if I had the labware and precursors I would be able to figure it out within a month or so.
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koods
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: fapjack]
#19666920 - 03/08/14 09:54 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: The synthesis doesn't look as complicated as everyone always says it is. I think if I had the labware and precursors I would be able to figure it out within a month or so.
I bet even you could figure it out under those conditions.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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fapjack
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: koods] 1
#19666930 - 03/08/14 09:56 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Kman1898
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: fapjack] 1
#19804813 - 04/06/14 06:26 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well first here's the Owsley Quote Second, I think we both know chinacat was a load of bologna. Regardless of others opinions on that, I think we can all agree that LSD lasts ~12 hours no matter what the dose? Well then why does chinacat speak of it's duration being much longer on a thumbprint? I'm not going to pull apart everything he said but his posts are widely the reason that this "different grade of crystal" argument came about. And placebo is such a powerful thing and I'll give you an example from Sasha Shulgins' life. Quote:
In the Winter of 1944, the USS Pope, a 1,200-ton destroyer escort, was about 1,000 miles from the coast of England. It had recently finished a running battle with German U-boats off the Azores, one of the critical naval conflicts of the Second World War. On board, a young U.S. marine named Alexander Shulgin tried to relax by playing poker, but as he shuffled the cards, his left thumb ached intensely. It was badly infected and needed surgery, but there was no way to operate while at sea.
Shulgin’s ship docked at Liverpool, and he was transferred to a nearby army hospital for the operation. There, a nurse handed him a glass of orange juice, and as he drank he noticed a few undissolved grains of powder at the bottom of the glass. He assumed they were the remains of a sedative, and despite his best efforts to stay awake, he fell deeply unconscious.
When he awoke, Shulgin discovered he was wrong: the glass had contained only juice and sugar, and his collapse was caused entirely by the placebo effect. It was only after he’d already passed out that the doctors had administered an anesthetic and conducted the operation. The idea that his brain had fooled him was a revelation to the young marine: if a placebo could have such a dramatic effect, the possibilities for active drugs seemed boundless. Suddenly fascinated by the interface between the mind and molecular matter, Shulgin returned to the U.S. and embarked on a career in psychopharmacology.
Next Krystal Cole is a fucking liar and a half. How can you trust anything she has said? Also that AMA was anything but educational, they didn't go into much detail that actually means they did this synth. "I followed the gabrecht synth" doesn't mean he did. Sure you'll point me to some of the posts where he actually seemed like he could be executing it properly but in this AMA example he can't seem to explain how he got the caffeine out of the cafergot? How does Dr. Nichols not count as a legitimate source yet someone on reddit with no proven credentials that had supposedly only made LSD one time count? Oh and he only made 17mg. So how is that more credible than the ex-leading researcher on the subject who has made it and tested it a multitude of times?
-------------------- Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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Cyclohexylamine
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Kman1898] 1
#19804849 - 04/06/14 06:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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We established earlier the AMA author was full of shit, because of other things he said.
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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r00tuuu123
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: ChinChiller]
#19804969 - 04/06/14 06:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Buy a big fishing boat, Empty the hull, put a huge meth lab in it. Come back to shore and sell it.
Avoiding law enforcement and pirates has its advantages too.
Definitely would want to make the lab sea-friendly, wouldnt want some solvents/ acids flying around during rough seas! 
Oh yea take a bunch of chemicals that explode when you look at them wrong 200 miles out in the ocean.
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Please report me to a Mod for hurting your punk ass hippie feelings And all time Champion thread killer.
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koods
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: r00tuuu123]
#19805002 - 04/06/14 07:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Most of these reactions aren't capable of exploding, except maybe the alkali metal dissolved in ammonia one. Even that is really just vigorous burning.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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fapjack
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19805530 - 04/06/14 08:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Reddit is full of trolls, I saw that and immediately assumed they were full of shit before I clicked it. That place isn't exactly reliable.
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filamentous
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Kman1898]
#20908591 - 11/30/14 02:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kman1898 said: An LSD synthesis using PyBOP has been done in a Casey Hardison's own house before. Sure, he went to prison for it as these things aren't legal, but based on the pictures released it was actually quite impressive. This route would result in a fair bit of iso-LSD and poor yield yet the end product has been proven through not only the power of science, but the same empirical data that many rely on, there were no known physical effects. I don't recall exactly what the results were but they are widely available online (something like 76-84% (+)-D-LSD was the end product. Even that was probably a guess by the him and not based on fact.
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CWHardison said: I chromo'd and weighed the d-oil on every run after Rvap.
Looks like it was based on fact.
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