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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: pwedz]
    #20895304 - 11/26/14 11:22 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I don't have a narrative, I am simply telling you what a logical and unbiased view of the evidence leads any rational human being to believe. I am against police brutality, I am against racism, neither of these things were involved here.


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Offlinepwedz
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #20895403 - 11/26/14 11:57 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
What killed me, is I was advised to take a lower settlement in my case against the NYPD, which came from my involvement in occupy, because I am a felon. And by law, a convicted criminal takes less suffering from being beaten, maced, illegally arrested, and detained, than a normal person.




wait..  you were an occupier and you are celebrating the Ferguson result ?!  and you have had a case against NYPD and you are calling this a 'false issue.'  hahahahaahahahahaa  no wonder that movement never got any traction.  Jesus.  you are citing off crap stats about "more likely to..." as if it is the nature of certain races rather than their social situation.  Have you ever heard about the Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma and the Whites who burned it to the ground out of jealousy?  this is a legacy of that systematic and relentless undermining of a group of people.  this is a legacy of stop and frisk.  the anger of Ferguson is a result of the inequity in the administration of justice in this country.  you are obviously no sort of revolutionary if you are going to bat for a bs DA and a militarized police in the questionable killing of a black teen.  ridiculous.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: pwedz]
    #20895497 - 11/27/14 12:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I evaluate each issue individually.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: pwedz]
    #20895817 - 11/27/14 05:13 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwedz said:
not everyone accepts your narrative.




The only ones that matter did. The GJ.

Seeing as they had access to all the evidence... that's good enough.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #20896084 - 11/27/14 08:24 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

There was no justice that took place in Ferguson, and there won't be anytime soon.

Protests in 100+ cities across the nation are a testament to that.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: chopstick]
    #20896146 - 11/27/14 08:45 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

And how many of the retards protesting heard the evidence?

Retards being riled up by liars like Johnson and professional race hucksters like Sharpton

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/170048-star-witness-michael-brown-shooting-charged-theft-filing-false-police-report/

Quote:

Dorian Johnson, the primary witness to the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, has an outstanding warrant for a 2011 theft in Jefferson City and pleaded guilty for filing a false police report related to that theft......

He has already done multiple media appearances where he falsely claimed Brown was shot by Wilson in the back.  He also has claimed that Brown never reached for Wilson’s gun, was “shot like an animal” and that Brown had his hands up and told Wilson he was unarmed.





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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: chopstick]
    #20896619 - 11/27/14 11:11 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
There was no justice that took place in Ferguson, and there won't be anytime soon.

Protests in 100+ cities across the nation are a testament to that.




Protests in 100+ cities are a testament to the ignorance and gullibility of americans, especially, though it pains me to say it, minorities.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 2
    #20899100 - 11/28/14 01:19 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Seeing as they had access to all the evidence... that's good enough.



This is kinda the problem, though.  When does a grand jury ever get access to all the evidence?  When does a grand jury hear both sides of the argument?  They certainly wouldn't if it were you or me being considered for charges.

This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20900506 - 11/28/14 01:39 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Because you say so? Do you have any evidence at all there was special treatment?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20901343 - 11/28/14 05:54 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

> This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.

The only person that knows exactly what happened is the officer that killed the young man.  There were several witnesses to the shooting, but we know that eye witness testimony is horridly inaccurate.  Forensic evidence supported the testimony of the officer and refuted much of the testimony of the eye witnesses.  When there is reasonable doubt, the system must err on the side of not guilty.  I'm not claiming that the officer is innocent; only that in this case, with the evidence available (as I understand it), the grand jury made the correct decision.  If the witnesses had not embellished their testimony, perhaps things would have gone the other direction.  Unfortunately, they ruined their credibility, thus there was no real challenge to the officers testimony.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Seuss]
    #20901433 - 11/28/14 06:14 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.

The only person that knows exactly what happened is the officer that killed the young man.  There were several witnesses to the shooting, but we know that eye witness testimony is horridly inaccurate.  Forensic evidence supported the testimony of the officer and refuted much of the testimony of the eye witnesses.  When there is reasonable doubt, the system must err on the side of not guilty.  I'm not claiming that the officer is innocent; only that in this case, with the evidence available (as I understand it), the grand jury made the correct decision.  If the witnesses had not embellished their testimony, perhaps things would have gone the other direction.  Unfortunately, they ruined their credibility, thus there was no real challenge to the officers testimony.



This post illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the system.  Reasonable doubt is irrelevant to a grand jury decision.  Grand juries almost NEVER hear both sides of a case, but in this case, they did.  You speak of credibility, but in a normal grand jury proceeding, there would be no cross examination.  Credibility wouldn't be an issue.  Here, the grand jury saw witnesses cross examined.  Why?  Because it was a cop.  That is preferential treatment, plain and simple.  Anyone else would have been indicted and had to take this to trial.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20901942 - 11/28/14 07:40 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.

The only person that knows exactly what happened is the officer that killed the young man.  There were several witnesses to the shooting, but we know that eye witness testimony is horridly inaccurate.  Forensic evidence supported the testimony of the officer and refuted much of the testimony of the eye witnesses.  When there is reasonable doubt, the system must err on the side of not guilty.  I'm not claiming that the officer is innocent; only that in this case, with the evidence available (as I understand it), the grand jury made the correct decision.  If the witnesses had not embellished their testimony, perhaps things would have gone the other direction.  Unfortunately, they ruined their credibility, thus there was no real challenge to the officers testimony.



This post illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the system.  Reasonable doubt is irrelevant to a grand jury decision.  Grand juries almost NEVER hear both sides of a case, but in this case, they did.  You speak of credibility, but in a normal grand jury proceeding, there would be no cross examination.  Credibility wouldn't be an issue.  Here, the grand jury saw witnesses cross examined.  Why?  Because it was a cop.  That is preferential treatment, plain and simple.  Anyone else would have been indicted and had to take this to trial.





That is a non-issue, all of the physical evidence points to Brown trying to take the gun from the officer while he was still in the car, including gunshots fired inside the car door, which means he was panicking, and fearful for his life. Also, it is a standard practice for police reports to be reviewed at a grand jury, and for the officer who filed them to be called in.


I asked you already previously for some evidence there was special treatment or foul play, of course you have none, because it was a fair and just legal proceeding.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20901996 - 11/28/14 07:50 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Seeing as they had access to all the evidence... that's good enough.



This is kinda the problem, though.  When does a grand jury ever get access to all the evidence?  When does a grand jury hear both sides of the argument?  They certainly wouldn't if it were you or me being considered for charges.

This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.




Wasn't the special treatment given to the "protesters" that wanted the prosecutor to bring a case to a grand jury that had no business going there in the first place?

If a prosecutor knows the case has no merit yet is forced to bring it to a grand jury for political reasons, what else would one expect?


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: qman]
    #20902013 - 11/28/14 07:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

It was a dumb idea to ever hold a grand jury, because anyone who is protesting this case is ignorant enough not to understand, that a jury, people who have no stake in the case, and don't work for the government, made the decision.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: qman] * 2
    #20902625 - 11/28/14 10:29 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

If a prosecutor knows the case has no merit yet is forced to bring it to a grand jury for political reasons, what else would one expect?



No one forced him to do anything.  The bottom line is that this grand jury proceeding was not handled in the same way as they are typically handled.  That is my problem with the whole thing.  I've no opinion about the shooting, but I can certainly see that the process was intentionally skewed in favor of the cop.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20902780 - 11/28/14 11:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

No, when a police report is involved, it is standard practice for the officer who wrote the report to be present if available, you are skewing the facts.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Enlil]
    #20903305 - 11/29/14 03:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> This is special treatment in favor of the officer, plain and simple.

The only person that knows exactly what happened is the officer that killed the young man.  There were several witnesses to the shooting, but we know that eye witness testimony is horridly inaccurate.  Forensic evidence supported the testimony of the officer and refuted much of the testimony of the eye witnesses.  When there is reasonable doubt, the system must err on the side of not guilty.  I'm not claiming that the officer is innocent; only that in this case, with the evidence available (as I understand it), the grand jury made the correct decision.  If the witnesses had not embellished their testimony, perhaps things would have gone the other direction.  Unfortunately, they ruined their credibility, thus there was no real challenge to the officers testimony.



This post illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the system.  Reasonable doubt is irrelevant to a grand jury decision.  Grand juries almost NEVER hear both sides of a case, but in this case, they did.  You speak of credibility, but in a normal grand jury proceeding, there would be no cross examination.  Credibility wouldn't be an issue.  Here, the grand jury saw witnesses cross examined.  Why?  Because it was a cop.  That is preferential treatment, plain and simple.  Anyone else would have been indicted and had to take this to trial.




Poor wording on my part... was trying to say that if there isn't enough evidence for an indictment, then the grand jury should err on the side of protecting the defendant.  However, I was unaware that this grand jury process had been twisted the state.  There really is no defending the states actions (with the grand jury process) in this case.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #20903563 - 11/29/14 08:00 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The prosecutor was in a no win situation. The investigation made it quite clear there were no grounds for an indictment and if the race pimps and the media (but I repeat myself) hadn't blown it out of proportion the prosecutor would simply have not brought charges against Wilson. Game over, case closed.

But in the hyper-charged atmosphere surrounding the incident that decision would have gone over like a lead balloon. So rather than take all the heat himself, he brought it before a grand jury and had them take the heat.

I have no problem with that, and would probably have done the same had I been in his position. To me it was an eminently sensible method of handling things.


Phred


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: Phred]
    #20903846 - 11/29/14 09:57 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

My problem with it is it justified the fantasies and the delusions of the angry mobs, and added fuel to the fire.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Hurray, Justice in Fergusun [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #20904115 - 11/29/14 11:36 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

My problem with it is it justified the fantasies and the delusions of the angry mobs…




It did the reverse. The evidence presented at the trial is quite conclusive. It negates the narrative the race pimps and media (but I repeat myself) were peddling. Had the prosecutor simply declined to indict, the speculation would have reached levels of insanity.

Quote:

...and added fuel to the fire.



The mob was going to riot no matter what occurred. No amount of evidence no matter how convincing would have made a speck of difference to some of the rioters. See Trayvon Martin.



Phred


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