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Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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creekfarmer
cultivator
Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 94
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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polymer casing
#2076767 - 11/06/03 11:05 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Has anyone tried using hydrated polymers for casing? I live in the woods and trichoderma has proven to be a wall I can't get past. I feel like if I can case without organic material I might be able to get on with things. Please let me know what experience with a strictly polymer casing any of you have.
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o0PapaSmurf0o
AscendedMaster
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 80
Loc: satx.rr.com
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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hey I had the exact same thought. however instead of using silica crystals which are relatively expensive I thought about using kitty litter crystals which is much cheaper. In my theory I would hydrate them and use like vermiculite. Anyone have any thoughts on this??
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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I think that kitty litter crystals are silica, but you would use those to dry mushrooms, not as a casing. I think the silica would absolutely ruin the casing!
But to creekfarmer, tried it once, so I know it works. If you want more details than that, search, but unfortunately I don't think the posts go back as far in the past as it was when I posted my results.
-------------------- "From a certain point of view" -Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi PM me with any cultivation questions. I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Anonymous
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Yes. Mixed results didnt use it more than once. Its a real bitch trying to peel of the crystals from the bottom of the mushrooms. Now you could maybe add it to the substrate. But I never messed with that.
Oh I never used a straight polymer casing. I used a cocco/Verm/calcium/polly crystal mix.
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o0PapaSmurf0o
AscendedMaster
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 80
Loc: satx.rr.com
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: polymer casing [Re: ]
#2078551 - 11/06/03 08:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes silica is used to dry shrooms when they are not saturated because they have the ability to pull a great deal of moisture from the air. However, when they are saturated they can only release that moisture. And since they are not prone to contamination I think they may be a viable alternative since creekfarmer is having such a hard time with trichoderma. Even stamets suggests the use of water retaining crystals as a substrate layer.
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zeronio
Stranger
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Maybe something like Hygromull could work.
Quote:
Hygromul is an expanded plastic, tolerated by plants. It is obtained in the expanding of a condensation product of urea and formaldehyde. The material has a spongy structure, i.e. mostly open cells and therefore high water holding capacity. Hygromul is a soil amendment agent, which in light soils and substrates holds water and makes possible a good utilization of the water from natural rainfalls and sprinkler irrigation.
http://www.actahort.org/books/17/17_9.htm
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zeronio
Stranger
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
#2079432 - 11/07/03 01:02 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Eh no, it probably can't be pasteurized.
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o0PapaSmurf0o
AscendedMaster
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 80
Loc: satx.rr.com
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
#2079589 - 11/07/03 02:10 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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well it shouldn't really need pasteurization since it doesn't support the growth of contaminants. Right?
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zeronio
Stranger
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Maybe, if you moist it with peroxidated or bleached water. I'll give it a try - if I can get it anywhere.
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Fcuerkt
insane visionary
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 371
Loc: the center of a xenon ato...
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
#2081798 - 11/07/03 05:40 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wouldn't touch it w/ bleach.
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Suntzu
Geek
Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
Last seen: 17 days, 8 hours
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My experience with polyacrylamide crystals is that they are very difficult to contaminate. I've never seen them contaminate. A major downside of using them alone as a casing layer is that they colonize like substrate. This is a two-fold problem; not only do they not seem to provide a good microclimate/nutrient-step-down, but if the mycelium is actively colonizing it, it may be breaking it down. Polyacrylamide is essentially non-toxic; acrylamide, the building blocks of it, is very toxic/carcinogenic. The first problem essentially seems to result in an over-colonized casing [i.e. big-ass PF cake ]. I have a pic around here somewhere. . .A thin layer of crystals may actually provide an effective contamination barrier, at the cost of surface microclimate. It may be safe to use in such a manner, but the research has not been done on what fungi do with this material. They are very cool to play with, though, and may have a good role in casing mixtures at the least.
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zeronio
Stranger
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: polymer casing [Re: Suntzu]
#2083095 - 11/08/03 03:19 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't think of that. So it is possible that mushroom consumes this urea and formaldehyde hygromull and breaks it into its toxic compounds. Formaldehyde is carcinogenic too, right?
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Anonymous
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
#2089096 - 11/10/03 10:49 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dint get sick yet from those mushrooms that grew on those crystals. But only time will tell. But I have to say that it is a real bitch to clean them off when they grow onto the polly crystal. I didnt notice any mycelium growing into the crystal. But they sort of just latch on and absorb the moisture
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: polymer casing [Re: ]
#2089160 - 11/10/03 11:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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It can't be good. Everything is a carcinogen, now -- I don't think there's any solid proof, but we're really careful with polyacrylamide in the lab. Oh, yeah -- formaldehyde is definately carcinogenic. -- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
Edited by micro (11/10/03 11:22 AM)
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armedia
Dikaryon
Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
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Re: polymer casing [Re: micro]
#2089190 - 11/10/03 11:41 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find these gels to be most helpful in casings, especially this stuff, a potassium (vs. sodium) based polyacrylamide gel: Terra-sorb. The trick is to use it sparingly, maybe 2 tbs/l of casing. it really cuts down on the amount of spraying/ hydrating you need to do.
I doubt the gel is itself soluble enough to be consumed by the mycelium, so I wouldn't worry about toxic metabolites.
My 2 cents, Armedia
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armedia
Dikaryon
Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
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Re: polymer casing [Re: armedia]
#2089202 - 11/10/03 11:44 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh, and it does stand up to pasteurizing, or microwaving (i haven't tried autoclaving, but I imagine that would not work.)
- A
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