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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblehTx
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Discerning Intelligence
    #20886260 - 11/24/14 09:54 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

How do we discern what constitutes intelligence and intelligent decision-making?


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: hTx]
    #20886440 - 11/24/14 10:27 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

having ideas that appeal to the masses? :shrug:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: SleepyE]
    #20886554 - 11/24/14 10:41 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
having ideas that appeal to the masses? :shrug:



i mean more in the non-human sense.

for instance, how do we discern if a natural event is the result of an intelligent decision, or the result of natural processes?

For example, evolution by means of natural selection.

Here we have natural events of an adaptive nature that are scientifically understood as the result of natural processes (natural selection) but may intepreted to be and consequentially are sometimes labeled as the result of some intelligence at work.

That is where I would like to point the debate towards -- how do we make the distinction between intelligence and/or result of natural process?

On a basic level, I think we could say something like intelligence has a choice, whereas results of natural processes do not (chemical reactions).


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Edited by hTx (11/24/14 10:42 PM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: hTx] * 1
    #20887322 - 11/25/14 05:28 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
How do we discern what constitutes intelligence and intelligent decision-making?



i have noticed 'intelligence' is used in a highly variable way often informed by one's profession or self image..

intelligence to a broker will look quite different to intelligence to an artist or sportsman or academic or scientist or technician or marketer or politician..


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: quinn]
    #20887357 - 11/25/14 05:57 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

OK let us look at etymology of that term

Quote:

late 14c., "faculty of understanding," from Old French intelligence (12c.), from Latin intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nominative intelligens) "discerning," present participle of intelligere "to understand, comprehend," from inter- "between" (see inter-) + legere "choose, pick out, read" (see lecture (n.)).

Meaning superior understanding, sagacity" is from early 15c. Sense of "information, news" first recorded mid-15c., especially "secret information from spies" (1580s). Intelligence quotient first recorded 1921 (see I.Q.).

and discerning 
    "action of perceiving," late 14c., verbal noun from discern. As a present participle adjective, attested from c.1600.





The other day on a quiz show called Eggheads, oine of the contestants was a young mathematics teacher. They are given choices of three answers, and he was asked 'what is tuberculosis --is it 1/ a disease of the lings 2/ of the kidneys 3/0f the liver

to my utter amazement he didnot know and ummed and rrrwed and then said 'errrm I think it is a disease of the kidneys'!! Well I nearly fell offa my chair LOL I mean shit, not only didn't he know what this very well-known disease from the relatively recent past (and it has returned also in some communities) but the CLUE is in the word itself, 'TUBER' meaning connected with breathing, and yet this person who is most likely gifted in maths was laughably clueless. he had no discernment, perception, dare I say intelligence

Bill Molison, the 'founder' of Permaculture said that some of the most wasteful energy users were his physicist friends which was surprising because they specialized in 'energy' and yet in living were very wasteful and lived unsustainable. I would call that lack of intelligence also.

The real meaning of intelligence for me is not the 'high IQ left brain' trip pushed as the definition of intelligence by this culture, but more an all-pervasive organic and dynamic learning of interelationships. Nature is intelligence.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: hTx]
    #20887573 - 11/25/14 07:48 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Those who are able to make observations or take actions that are more effective or true regarding the world than the average person is able to.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: hTx]
    #20887870 - 11/25/14 09:31 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

In an individual:  the tendency to make novel, useful and interesting mental connections, usually coupled with the ability to articulate them sufficiently.

In a process:  the tendency to promote order and reduce chaos, in such a way that the process interacts with (or acts through) a certain entity (in our case, humanity) in order to produce novel, useful and interesting connections.


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #20888804 - 11/25/14 01:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

/


Edited by Johnny Depp (12/20/14 03:43 AM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #20888892 - 11/25/14 02:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I love how society determines intelligence based on how good of a slave you are at work.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #20888950 - 11/25/14 02:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Johnny Depp said:
I think a person's intelligence is one thing.  Being a very quick thinker.  And intelligent decision making is another.  Having emotional intelligence.  Being able to master one's own psychology to consistently follow through with the intelligent decisions even when emotions try to stand in the way.





^^


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #20889349 - 11/25/14 03:50 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
I love how society determines intelligence based on how good of a slave you are at work.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:




lol, the typical corporate interview question '..and can you aprioritize your time?'


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #20889427 - 11/25/14 04:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
In an individual:  the tendency to make novel, useful and interesting mental connections, usually coupled with the ability to articulate them sufficiently.

In a process:  the tendency to promote order and reduce chaos, in such a way that the process interacts with (or acts through) a certain entity (in our case, humanity) in order to produce novel, useful and interesting connections.



okay, how about plants?

can we say plants have the capacity to act intelligently, or bacteria/viruses?


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: zzripz]
    #20889428 - 11/25/14 04:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

/


Edited by Johnny Depp (12/20/14 03:43 AM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #20889485 - 11/25/14 04:20 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Or even non-local events, synchronicities -- if they are ordered in such a way as to make the chaos and randomness of life events, ordered, by your definition, can we say there is an intelligence at work there, if even non-locally?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: hTx]
    #20890421 - 11/25/14 07:04 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
okay, how about plants?

can we say plants have the capacity to act intelligently, or bacteria/viruses?




I would say plants and viruses comprise orders which resonate with other orders, and their intelligence arises as a result of this resonance.  The process is still essentially about making connections, however abstractly, in the promotion of novel orders amidst chaos.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Discerning Intelligence [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #20890472 - 11/25/14 07:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

ask ruppy sheldrake :shrug:


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