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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
US prison population "largest in the world"
    #2088625 - 11/10/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Gee.

Doesn't this ring alarm bells in the 'dittoheads' (HA HA) of America?



U.S. prison population largest in world

U.S. prison population largest in world
The Baltimore Sun
With a record-setting 2 million people now locked up in American jails and prisons, the United States has overtaken Russia and has a higher percentage of its citizens behind bars than any other country.

Those are the latest dreary milestones resulting from a two-decade imprisonment boom that experts say has probably helped reduce crime but also has created ballooning costs and stark racial inequities.

"Why, in the land of the free, should 2 million men, women and children be locked up?" asks Andrew Coyle, director of the International Centre for Prison Studies at the University of London and a leading authority on incarceration.

The latest statistics support that view. The new high of 2,019,234, announced by the Justice Department in April, underscores the extraordinary scale of American imprisonment compared to most of the world.

During the 1990s, the United States and Russia -- a far poorer country emerging from totalitarian rule and beset by official corruption and organized crime -- vied for the dubious position of the highest incarceration rate on the planet.

But in the last few years, Russian authorities have carried out large-scale amnesties to ease overcrowding in disease-infested prisons, and the United States has emerged unchallenged into first place, at 702 prisoners per 100,000 population. Russia now has 665 prisoners per 100,000.

United States imprisons at a far greater rate than developed Western nations and many impoverished and authoritarian countries. On a per capita basis, according to the best available figures, the United States has three times more prisoners than Iran, four times more than Poland, five times more than Tanzania and seven times more than Germany.

Bruce Western, a sociologist at Princeton University, says sentencing policies have had a glaringly disproportionate impact on black men. The Justice Department reports that one in eight black men in their 20s and early 30s were behind bars last year, compared with 1 in 63 white men. The chance of a black man going to prison in his lifetime is one in three, the department says.

For black male high school dropouts, Western says, the numbers are still worse: 41 percent of black dropouts between 22 and 30 were locked up in 1999. "I think this is one of the most important developments in race relations in the last 30 years," he says.

A major cause is the war on drugs. In 1980, says Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project in Washington, about 40,000 Americans were locked up for drugs-only offenses. Now the number is 450,000, three-fourths of them black or Latino, though drug use is no higher in those groups than among whites.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2089032 - 11/10/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)


Bruce Western, a sociologist at Princeton University, says sentencing
policies have had a glaringly disproportionate impact on black men.
The Justice Department reports that one in eight black men in their
20s and early 30s were behind bars last year, compared with 1 in 63
white men. The chance of a black man going to prison in his lifetime
is one in three, the department says.


Warning: Non-politically correct argument coming up...

Black males go to prison more than white males because black males
statistically commit more crimes.

I remember working with a black guy at one of my jobs and he said
that of all the black males that he went to high school with,
50% were dead or in prison. There is and has been an excessively
high number of crimes committed by young black males. Now,
why they commit a lot of crimes is open to debate. There are a
million possible explanations, but the simple fact is that it is
true.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
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Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2089064 - 11/10/03 12:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

maybe they just get convicted more....


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Rono]
    #2089089 - 11/10/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)


maybe they just get convicted more....


I realize that liberals seem to think that every black person
who enters the criminal justice system is victimized, and
every white person who enters the same system is given leniency.
This just isn't true. Sure there are some instances of racism
which are unavoidable, because after all people are making the
decisions in the criminal justice system, and some people are
racist.

However this does not explain the consistently high crime rate
among black males in every part of America. And, while it
is in style to think that our justice system doesn't work because
of a few highly publicized cases, the vast majority of the time
it does. The jury is able to see the facts before their eyes
and they determine the guilt of the person. The judge(often
bound by mandatory minimum sentencing requirements) makes the
sentence. White people are not immune from this process.

Black people have higher incarceration rates because they commit more
crimes than white people do. It is plain, simple, and unfortunate.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2089100 - 11/10/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
There is and has been an excessively
high number of crimes committed by young black males. Now,
why they commit a lot of crimes is open to debate. There are a
million possible explanations, but the simple fact is that it is
true.



This couldn't have anything to do with the destruction of the Black family unit by years of socialist welfare plantation programs could it? I know it's a nice way to farm the black population for votes, but a check of the historical trends in black family units, illegitimacy, education levels, youth employment levels and crime levels since it's implementation as spending and programs increase gives one pause to wonder about the unintended consequences.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2089107 - 11/10/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

50% were dead or in prison

Sounds like he might've been exaggerating for effect.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2089113 - 11/10/03 12:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If you socialized with black people that come from certain areas (such as South Central L.A.), you would not think it was an exaggeration.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Evolving]
    #2089767 - 11/10/03 05:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This couldn't have anything to do with the destruction of the Black family unit by years of socialist welfare plantation programs could it?



It has a hell of a lot to do with it. If the government and "social champions" keep treating them as if they are incapable of succeeding, it will only get worse.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2090398 - 11/10/03 09:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Not surprisingly, the problem is corporations such as Bechtel, CCA, and various military contractors (ie. GE), who make a good chunk of their profits from building, maintaining, and upgrading prisons. They have a vested interest in keeping as many ppl incarcerated for as long as possible. And no candidate can be elected or appointed to a high public office without their full blessing and support. They are contractually bound to draught legislation, hand down judgements, etc. that are specifically intended to expand the market for the prison industry. The "war on drugs" (and now the "war on terrorism") have nothing to do with their names; its all about lining the pockets of the prison-military-industrial-complex.



--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,177
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2090410 - 11/10/03 09:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

What a surprise  :rolleyes:

And most of the 'drug users' in US prisons are there for non-violent, victimless "crimes".

Most drug dealers spend more time in jail than murderers and rapists. At least that's the case in my state of Virginia. 


--------------------


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2090627 - 11/10/03 10:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

well put


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2090636 - 11/10/03 10:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And no candidate can be elected or appointed to a high public office without their full blessing and support. They are contractually bound to draught legislation, hand down judgements, etc. that are specifically intended to expand the market for the prison industry.

i'm sorry, but i don't believe that. prove it.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: ]
    #2090728 - 11/10/03 11:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

the republicans channeled a TON of money
from supporters to turn the tides of the
midterm senate elections in 2002 in a couple
traditionally democrat states.

while it may not be as cut and dry as it is
portrayed in the post, monied interests have
a heavy hand in politics, much heavier than
your vote and my vote.

to deny that money and financial resource is a
large determinant in american politics is to turn
a blind eye to the last 20 years.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: afoaf]
    #2090752 - 11/10/03 11:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

afoaf writes:

the republicans channeled a TON of money
from supporters to turn the tides of the
midterm senate elections in 2002 in a couple
traditionally democrat states.


And this money came from the companies that own prisons? Source, please.

while it may not be as cut and dry as it is
portrayed in the post, monied interests have
a heavy hand in politics, much heavier than
your vote and my vote.


No amount of money the Democrats could spend would ever convince me to vote for Dennis Kucinich. Presumably no amount of money the Republicans could spend would ever convince you to vote for Dubya. Money doesn't get you elected, votes get you elected. All money does is allow you to get your message out to more people, or to repeat your message more often. If the message you send sucks, you don't get the votes.

When it gets right down to it, it is "your vote" and "my vote" that count. Bill Gates gets exactly one vote. So does Donald Trump.

pinky


--------------------


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Phred]
    #2090770 - 11/10/03 11:30 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

bullshit, you can't possibly be denying money doesn't play a significant role. the majority of voters (i.e. not us) rarely vote on ideology or even party for that matter. your image which has been bought plays a huge, huge role. why else would they spend so much time and effort raising huge amounts of money? and why else would PACs donate the money?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Phred]
    #2090792 - 11/10/03 11:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And this money came from the companies that
own prisons? Source, please.


Bechtel and Wackenhut are the two large
players that come to mind first.

(Bechtel builds, Wackenhut manages)

All money does is allow you to get your message
out to more people, or to repeat your message more
often


you're right, but this is a powerful thing when
the omnipresence of your messages effectively
drown out legitimate candidates who don't have
the financial backing to spam the airwaves with
repetitive marketing.

I bet you over half of america would have no clue
who Kucinich is despite the fact that he's got a great
platform that a lot of people would presumably
support

drowning out qualified candidates and relegating
americans to those with the best financial backers
leaves us with more of the same special interest
politics that is so poisoning the united states.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: afoaf]
    #2090821 - 11/10/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Money doesn't get you elected, votes get you elected. All money does is allow you to get your message out to more people, or to repeat your message more often. If the message you send sucks, you don't get the votes.





right...i forget, what was the great platform that Arnold ran under that got him elected?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Tao]
    #2090859 - 11/11/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

:smirk:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: Tao]
    #2090897 - 11/11/03 12:39 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

TaoTeChing writes:

bullshit, you can't possibly be denying money doesn't play a significant role.

Of course it plays a role. I was refuting afoaf's claim that "monied interests have a heavy hand in politics, much heavier than your vote and my vote." This claim is false. "Monied interests" don't vote, people vote. And it can't have escaped your interests that the rich are a very small percentage of voters. Now, folks with money try to publicize their favored candidate to the best of their ability, but in the end their vote counts no more than your vote. If they manage to persuade you to vote for someone you don't agree with, who's fault is that -- theirs for promoting the one they feel best for the job, or yours for being too lazy to decide if you think he's best for the job?

Besides, it is common practice for the "monied interests" to contribute to the campaigns of both candidates in a key position. That way no matter who wins, they feel they have a claim.

your image which has been bought plays a huge, huge role. why else would they spend so much time and effort raising huge amounts of money?

So you're saying if you saw 'Re-elect Bush" ads on TV every time you turned it on, you'd vote for Bush?

pinky


--------------------


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: US prison population "largest in the world" [Re: afoaf]
    #2090907 - 11/11/03 12:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

afoaf writes:

Bechtel and Wackenhut are the two large
players that come to mind first.


And how much was their contribution, in absolute dollars and in percentage figures?

I bet you over half of america would have no clue
who Kucinich is despite the fact that he's got a great
platform that a lot of people would presumably
support


Has Kucinich been in every candidates debate so far? Which candidate was excluded from any of the devates for lack of funds? Did the candidates have to pay MTV anything to be on the last debate?

drowning out qualified candidates and relegating
americans to those with the best financial backers
leaves us with more of the same special interest
politics that is so poisoning the united states.


So this spending of money thing is a Republican-only deal? Why don't the Dems raise money to promote their candidates?

pinky


--------------------


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