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OfflineTao
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Someone from Holland?
    #2087263 - 11/09/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I've visited Amsterdam a couple times and thus, of course, haven't experienced what real dutch culture is like, just the super-touristy culture of amsterdam. I have been wondering a lot recently what the culture in the rest of holland is like in respect to magic mushrooms. its legal, but has it become accepted? like do 40+ year olds ever get together and shroom the way that they would get together and drink? do you think the presence of legal hallucinogens has had much of an effect in how the general populous thinks at all? or is the presence of mushrooms not really felt outside amsterdam? i would really be fascinated if anyone from the netherlands could take the time to explain anything about mushrooms' effect/noneffect upon dutch culture, or, barring that, a link to somewhere that's written anything on that.
Thanks


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Tao]
    #2088440 - 11/10/03 04:18 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm from holland. Amsterdam is the only super-touristic-all-about-weed'n-drugs-place in The Netherlands. The rest of NL is just 'normal'.
In every big city you'll find coffeshops and smartshops. But it's not that all drugs are commonly accepted. Most poeple don't know what magic mushrooms etc exactly do. Weed is pretty commonly accepted though, but mushrooms is more a weird thing that's not for everybody and therefore less popular.
I think there are also 40 year old people who shroom. But I don't think there is a significant effect that shrooms have on the dutch culture.


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Tao]
    #2088664 - 11/10/03 08:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It's really not like everyone is using them because they're tolerated. If that was the effect of easing up the drug laws, Holland probably wouldn't be doing it.
The Dutch culture is like that; if it doesn't hurt anyone, why should it be illegal. We don't even jail people for the possesion of small amounts and use of harddrugs. Dealers and other people in the drug world also get quite light penalties. Which I think is right, because usually they aren't hurting people, they're just providing a service.

If you want to experience some of the real Dutch culture, go to one of the less touristy places. You can get everywhere in Holland in a few hours. I live in Utrecht, which is a nice, not too crowded old city. We get tourists, but nothing like Amsterdam.
Just relaxing in a non-tourist Coffeeshop is really good. You'll see people coming in of every layer of society.

It's too bad though, that politically, Holland is going the wrong way now. A right wing christian party is the biggest party in the coalition. They've already said they want to fight drugs. They might also cut the number of coffeeshops in the future. And they are responsible for the non-smoking laws that are supposed to be in restaurants, bars, disco's and even coffeeshops in 2005. I don't think this law can ever work though, it already has been delayed from 2004 to 2005.
IMO Holland is moving more and more towards an American way of policy. We are nowhere near as fucked up yet, but it's slowly coming closer. I can only hope that the people will be sensible again and vote better. Luckily the current christian party is losing support.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2088670 - 11/10/03 08:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> IMO Holland is moving more and more towards an American way of policy.

Curious... is this because of America, or do the right wing my-shit-doesn't-stink-do-gooders exist everywhere, independent of America?


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Seuss]
    #2088695 - 11/10/03 09:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Both. And we have had a rough political time lately. A charismatic bastard by the name of Pim Fortuyn rose up, and started a real right wing party. He convinced the people in Holland that everything was going wrong, that everyone was unsafe from violence, he blamed the old political parties for everything that was wrong, and people believed him. He was good in pointing out problems, but never had solid solutions, but people didn't notice that. They just liked how he was on TV.
He was also gay. I have nothing against gays. But it was pretty amazing to see many usually gaybashing people supporting him, just because he was pretty anti-islam.
Anyway, some stupid asshole killed Pim, and made him into a martyr. Many people still voted on his party and had a bad view of the left wing because of Pim. The left wing was even pointed to for his murder. "The bullet came from left" is what was said.
The party of Pim was a complete mess without him, and quickly the coalition fell. Then people still didn't want to vote left wing, and all became believers again, and voted on the christian party.

Lets hope Holland will become more social again, next election.


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OfflineSummerBreeze
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2088845 - 11/10/03 10:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The only truely large scale consumption of drugs, sadly, comes from the buitenlanders, sadly again like myself. Visitors that congreated there to work for a while and decided to hang around. I was glad when i decided to leave as the whole scene is wrought with viloence and stupidity. Wanton hard drug taking with a fucked up attitude. Handfuls of chemicals then go to the local club and act like you own the place starting fights with the locals who on a whole tend to be sensible, normal well adjusted people 'cause your team handed and think your invincible.

If your going to the 'Dam may i suggest taking in a few of the marvellous culture areas and not just the Red Light district and one or two coffee shops? Fantasticly well stocked art galleries and wonderful resturants and night life that dosent nessassarily center wholly on the drug culture.

But then i do tend to be a bit cynical at times. Go get nicely toasted and have a great time.

I'm sure you will.


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2088888 - 11/10/03 10:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I always enjoy drug tourism. It's cool to visit some of the touristy cofeeshops now and then. You can see a lot of tourist who are not used to our strong stuff get really baked. Or people eating a few space cakes and not feeling anything, untill they hit :smile:
Sadly another plan of our current government is to start asking for passports in coffeeshops, so only Dutch people can buy weed. Stupid plan, I hope it doesn't go through.

One cool place touristy place in Amsterdam is La Canna. It's a huge place that has a coffeeshop (one of the few where you can also get alcohol), a smartshop, a pool hall, a restaurant and a hotel in one.
They also have some high quality weed like Cali Mist. 


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2088913 - 11/10/03 11:02 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> can see a lot of tourist who are not used to our strong stuff get really baked.

*laugh*  I was one of them.  :smile: You guys have made a lot of money from my visits in the past, and I hope to contribute more to your economy in the future.  Amsterdam, in the spring when the flowers are in bloom, is probably one of the most pretty places I have seen.  Sitting out, smoking a bit, watching the barges full of flowers drift by is simply magical.  Pray that the bible thumpers don't ruin the beauty.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: stefan]
    #2089229 - 11/10/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Stefan,
The Kokopeli Smart Shoppe, owned and operated by Veronique, is part of Hans van den Hurk's five Conscious Dreams Collective Smart Shoppes and is but one of more than 140 Smart Shops located throughout the Nederlands.

The Kokopelli, on a normal Friday and Saturday night sell more than 300 Shroom doses on both nights (Including Cubes, Copes and Sclerotia of P. tampanensis), and that is only one shop of the 140 shops located throughtout the country.

And mushrooms are as well knonw as pot there. There are even pizza restaurants which deliver fresh shrooms on pizza.s

You can read some of this at my site at :

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/news.htm



mj


Edited by mjshroomer (11/11/03 11:59 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2089243 - 11/10/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The only place I found mushrooms in Amsterdam was the little shop with the mushroom cap above the doorway near Rick's coffee shop... close to where the red light district starts. I think there is a big Chinese food place across the street, or nearby as well. It has been a while since I was there last...

Not that I doubt you MJ... but the times that I have been there, they were hard to find... though when I did find them, they had lots of different species to choose from (species, not strains!), which I found very rewarding. Well worth the search.


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2089297 - 11/10/03 02:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Mushrooms aren't as wel known as pot. Sure a lot of people know about them, but not as many as pot. It's mostly the younger people who are using them.
Here in Utrecht, which is the fourth largest city in Holland, we only have 3-4 smartshops.
There are more than 800 coffeeshops (compared to 200 smartshops I think) in Holland and they're usually a lot busier than the smartshops.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2089333 - 11/10/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

indeed.
shrooms are not as well known as pot. I know, cybrbeast knows: we live here.

and a usual smartshop that's not in Amsterdam really doesn't sell 300 portions of shrooms a day on fridays and saturdays.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: stefan]
    #2089465 - 11/10/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Mushrooms aren't as well known as pot, but stefan and cybrbeast already told that.... I think there isn't so much misinformation about mushrooms here. I've never heard about bleeding brain, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.... The Dutch government provides free brochures(every drug his own) with correct information about dosage, effects, dangers, chemistry etc. http://www.drugsinfo.nl/  I've never seen an anti-drug ad on tv.

Dutch people don't use more drugs, but it's more tolerated: businessmen walk into coffeeshops to buy a joint after their work and nobody cares(only conservative christians). 

> You can see a lot of tourist who are not used to our strong stuff get really baked. Or people eating a few space cakes and not feeling anything, untill they hit

:grin: :spliff:


Edited by Annom (11/10/03 03:18 PM)


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Annom]
    #2089473 - 11/10/03 03:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annom said: I've never seen an anti-drug ad on tv.



Except for cigarettes and alcohol.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Tao]
    #2089487 - 11/10/03 03:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> its legal, but has it become accepted?

Quote:

In Holland we have 2 opium acts. The first is for Hard Drugs and the second for Soft Drugs. Only cannabis products fall under Soft Drugs(list 2). Buying, selling, possessing and growing of Soft and Hard drugs is illegal. Using Hard and Soft drugs is legal, even for minors! Using drugs isn't illegal so that people don't need to be scared to search for help(heroin, crack, cocaine addicts).

The dutch government tolerates small production(5plants pp), possession(5g) and selling(only coffeeshops/max 5g pp) of Soft Drugs(Cannabis products). Tolerating is "legal" but i'm not able to explain that part of the dutch law in English.

Smart Drugs/Eco Drugs (Mushrooms, Salvia, LSA seeds, San Pedro, Peyote and Ayahuasca) are totally legal! Psilocybin falls under the first opium act but judges in Holland say that natural plants containing Psilocybin aren't illegal because blablabla . They interpret the law in a good manner . But sometimes a judge has some american blood in his veins and says that it is illegal to grow enormous amounts of mushrooms It's all about how judges interpret the dutch law. But nearly nobody is accusing mushroom growers/sellers etc so that's nice.





> do you think the presence of legal hallucinogens has had much of an effect in how the general populous thinks at all?

No, because very few people use mushrooms on a regular base.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Annom]
    #2089601 - 11/10/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Mushrooms may not be as well known as pot, but they are definately not hard to find. The first time that I traveled to Holland to get shrooms, I found three or four smartshops within an hour of getting to the city and all of them had shrooms. Then I just shopped around for the best price. :laugh:

This was not Amsterdam that I went to either. It was a city on the border with Germany named Maastricht (sp).


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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2089780 - 11/10/03 05:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, border cities usually have a lot of coffeeshop and smartshops. Which is logical, because they get a lot of foreign customers.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2089793 - 11/10/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

true, they're not hard to find


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: stefan]
    #2089925 - 11/10/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, Holland's political scene is really interesting. Right wing Christians in power? Assasinations? Freaky! I hope for the sake of the whole world that they aren't successful in thier fight against drugs. That would only give America cannon fodder in it's war against drugs. They'd say that if the most liberal nation regarding drugs is getting stricter, it's because they have to, that you can't be liberal about drugs without causing a lot of trouble, which is garbage of course.


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Offlinef8L
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Re: Someone from Holland? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2090240 - 11/10/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

I live in Utrecht, which is a nice, not too crowded old city. We get tourists, but nothing like Amsterdam.




I stayed in Utrecht for 3 months last summer, what a blast! When I asked Dutch students living in Utrecht if they smoke marijuana, there was a large percentage who have never tried it.. that percentage is much larger in Holland then in the US (and that's for SURE!)- In terms of shrooms, I never really asked in particular, but most people feel that the people who use drugs are usually the jobless, homeless, etc.. so it doesnt have a great image at all.


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