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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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US Renews Bombings
    #2087199 -

Oh come on! I wanna see em shock and awe those E-Rackies from my lazyboy!

U.S. Warplanes Renew Bombing of Iraq Targets
Sun Nov 9, 4:39 PM ET


By Dean Yates

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. warplanes bombed targets in Iraq (news - web sites) on Sunday in air strikes that resumed last week for the first time in more than six months after the shooting down of three U.S. helicopters.


The renewed air strikes came as Iraq's interim foreign minister promised that local leaders would meet a December deadline for setting out a path toward self-rule.


The pledge by Hoshiyar Zebari came amid frustration expressed by occupation officials that Iraqi politicians have not moved more quickly to draw up plans for taking over power.


In the new air strikes, F-16 fighter-bombers dropped three 500-pound bombs near the flashpoint town of Falluja, in the area west of Baghdad where 16 American soldiers were killed when a U.S. Chinook helicopter was downed a week ago.


The air strikes early on Sunday followed attacks on U.S. troops, a U.S. military source said. He had no precise details.


Warplanes dropped 500-pound bombs on suspected guerrilla hideouts on Friday night around Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s hometown of Tikrit, 175 km (110 miles) north of Baghdad, where a U.S. Black Hawk helicopter was shot down that day, killing all six aboard.


That was the first time U.S. planes had bombed Iraq since the official end of major combat on May 1. A third U.S. helicopter, a Black Hawk, was downed near Tikrit on October 25.


Another U.S. soldier was killed and a comrade wounded late on Saturday when their vehicle ran over a bomb in Baghdad. A bomb also wounded a British soldier in the southern city of Basra.


On the political front, Iraq's Governing Council plans intense discussions to meet the U.S.-backed deadline of December 15 to spell out how and when it will create a new constitution and when it will hold elections, interim Foreign Minister Zebari said.


"The ball is now in our court and we must deliver," he said.


A coalition official told Reuters there was "fairly strong frustration" at the council's work. He said the coalition had made clear the constitution should be its top priority when the council was formed in July.


"Where are we four months on? We haven't moved yet," the official said.


Zebari said the December 15 deadline would be met, although implementation of the political roadmap depended on security.


FEAR AFTER BAGHDAD BLASTS


Several loud explosions echoed across Baghdad on Sunday night and police said a mortar bomb hit a house in the city center, but there were no immediate reports of casualties and little damage. It appeared to be the fourth mortar attack by insurgents in the past week on the capital.

Residents said no one was hurt when the mortar bomb hit the two-story house. The owner was frantic.

"There is still an explosive on the roof," shouted Khadija Mohammad. U.S. officials had no immediate details.

Guerrillas have grown increasingly bold in launching mortar attacks in the past week on the U.S.-led administration on the West side of the Tigris River. The attacks have not killed anyone but have wounded several personnel in the coalition.

Attacks on U.S. troops have left 150 dead in Iraq since President Bush (news - web sites) declared major combat over on May 1. Washington blames the attacks on loyalists of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam and foreign Muslim militants.

U.S. troops in Tikrit have launched a new operation in the hostile area to hunt down guerrillas. "If necessary, we'll carry out more shows of force," said Major Josslyn Aberle, spokeswoman for the 4th Infantry Division in Tikrit.

On Saturday, the International Committee of the Red Cross said it was temporarily closing its offices in Baghdad and Basra. But the head of the Basra delegation said some foreign staff would stay in southern Iraq.

An October 27 suicide car bomb attack on the ICRC headquarters in Baghdad killed 12 people.

(Additional reporting by Michael Georgy, Alistair Lyon and Andrew Gray in Baghdad, Luke Baker in Tikrit and Rosalind Russell in Basra)




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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2087208 -

35 soldiers died this week.

I posted the stats from vietnam.. and damn, it is shaping up that we do everything bigger and better the next time around..

KILL KILL KILL.. Let God sort them out.



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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2087304 -

I presume you are in favor of the US and UK pulling out their troops from Iraq, then?

pinky


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2087612 -

PsiloKitten said:
35 soldiers died this week.

I posted the stats from vietnam.. and damn, it is shaping up that we do everything bigger and better the next time around..

KILL KILL KILL..  Let God sort them out.

 


Actually, its "KILL 'EM ALL let God sort 'em out" [101st Airborne] :smirk:

I agree that Iraq looks alot like a new Viet Nam at the present moment. There are, however, some major differences that IMHO preclude its de-evolution into another Viet Nam. Among them: there was no oil in Viet Nam; there was no USA-PATRIOT act to quash dissent at home during the time of the Viet Nam war; the junta felt that Iraq was so important that they 9/11-ed us in order to do it; and while LBJ quit because of Viet Nam, Bush will be reelected in 2004.

All of these point to a continued escalation of the war in Iraq, albeit with a few ebbs and flows in the beginning. And if the Olduvai Gorge Theory holds, it will escalate very rapidly into World War III.
 


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087628 -

You seem so sure of yourself...


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #2087638 -

Exactly what i meant about this board being dominated by dismissive jerks...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087662 -

Please re-read the sticky post at the top of the first page titled: Political Forum Rules.

Thank you.

pinky


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087663 -

Now, this is all stuff that I never even tried to verify... A former co-worker who served three tours in Vietnam told me that at the time the jungle was a great source of rubber (this was before they developed ways to make good synthetic rubber) and Vietnam was a very important place for this natural resource. He also claimed that when he and his fellow soldiers needed safe passage, they would stop an (Shell?) oil tanker truck and hitch a ride. As they would drive along jungle roads, they could see the enemy removing booby traps along the road to allow the trucks to pass, after they passed they could watch the enemy resetting the traps along the road. Apparently, oil was a commodity that was protected by both sides in the conflict. I found his stories interesting, though like I said I never tried to verify them (where would I start?), nor did I investigate his claims about natural rubber. Just some food for thought...

P.S. My co-worker also told me that sometime during the Vietnam war, a process for creating synthetic rubber had been sucessfully developed thereby negating the whole reason for trying to secure Vietnam as a 'non-communist country.'


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (11/09/03 10:07 PM)

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Phred]
    #2087665 -

pinksharkmark said:
I presume you are in favor of the US and UK pulling out their troops from Iraq, then?

pinky


It's the only way to stabilize the region.


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Zahid]
    #2087670 -

There is another way, but it would involve a massive use of nuclear weapons...


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087699 -

interesting link.

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Evolving]
    #2087784 -

Quote:
There is another way, but it would involve a massive use of nuclear weapons...



I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are joking.


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Zahid]
    #2087889 -

I am not joking, but neither am I promoting it. We do have a president who seems to believe that he is ordained by God to carry out some divine plan, this is a rather unsettling situation (knowing the nature of some of the rhetoric that comes from some Christians, some Muslims and some Jews). I fear that there are imbeciles fighting over lit matches while sitting on powder kegs.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Evolving]
    #2087945 -

I don't think we should have gone into Iraq without at least convincing other countries to help us first. however, i cant understand how pulling the troops out would not be the worst move ever (i guess i should add, apart from nuclear war), it would create an enormous security vacuum that would result in anyone with military power or totalitarian dreams to just waltz through. itd be just like afghanistan before the taliban waltzed through or german post-wwI devastation when hitler did the same. i can see how someone would not have supported the war, but what would you see happening if we suddenly pulled our troops out? democracy?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Phred]
    #2088335 -

Im in favor of them atleast pulling out to the borders, getting the fuck out of the cities. If anything happens we can be there, but if we wont let the UN in then we sure dont need to be there.


The UN needs to come in.


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Tao]
    #2088349 -

Baghdad is due for a civil war.

Do you have any concept of the evolution of it's civilization in the cradle of the world? How pompous we are to think we know better then they do about their own country.

Stop letting the media let you believe they are all murderous savages.


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2088380 -

WHAT? "murderous savages"? dont put words in my mouth. im basing this on history of similar situations, not my arrogance. its not based on what i think the people are like, just that in that situation, i havent seen evidence of another country turning to democracy unless they revolted themselves rather than a sudden disappearance of any sort of order. or at least ive seen enough evidence of totalitarianism coming through during security vaccuums to say that we should try to avoid this happening at all costs.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

Edited by TaoTeChing (11/10/03 03:06 AM)

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Tao]
    #2088471 -

I wasnt directing that completely towards you. It was a general comment based upon your post, hence why I didnt say TaoTeChing: (insert comments)

Everyone on the side of war seems to think that the people cant do it themselves. We cant withdraw now. We're fucked if we do, fucked if we dont.. etc.

Im just saying that as a society we are pompous to think that we know best.


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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2088518 -

i think thats a bit overly liberal self-depreciating. americans want to see a democracy i.e. a country run by iraqis . thus, we do think they can 'do it themselves'. we're suspicious however of a powerful military or a religious zealot coming in and taking away from a government run by the people.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: US Renews Bombings [Re: Tao]
    #2088523 -

That's why I said, we should let them run their country and stop treating them as if we need them to hold their hand to do so.. and that the UN cannot possibly be of a greater help.

We are the military zealot that is taking over and privitizing their business and resources.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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