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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #20853672 - 11/17/14 11:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I have had severe paralysis on ps cyanescens to the point I had to hit the floor because my muscles just gave out, I ate the mushrooms instead of tea so I'm not sure if boiling could remove the toxin that causes this. I'm sure it's a byproduct of the breakdown of hardwood which is transfered into the mushroom and converted into a toxin which causes this severe body paralysis.. I'd take a wild guess and say its higher concentrations of the compound baeocystin or several of the other unknown compounds within specifcally wood lovers If you haven't already found out, norbaeocystine is 4-phosphoraloxytryptamine. It is unknown if it is active or not.
There is also another tryptamine alkaloid found in some mushrooms, called aeruginascine. It is believed to contain phosphorus like psilocybin, norbaeocystin, and baeocystin. Mushrooms with this alkaloid tend to stain greenish-blue instead of the normal cyan blue that regular psychedelic mushrooms stain. Ahh the wonderful world of psychedelics.


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"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #20853774 - 11/17/14 11:39 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Just like CBD and other cannabinoids in marijuana which can create an array/multitude of effects psychoative or not and in conjuction with THC. Mushrooms indefinitely contain other compounds than Psilocybin and Psilocin that play a role in the trips


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #20853792 - 11/17/14 11:46 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Well if it's anything to do with what I've experienced once or twice, it is not inhibited by the tea making process.  IMO it was a slight overdose that was the main culprit.  Once I literally could not retrieve a simple item from my pocket for the longest time.  This wasn't a negative experience and in fact quite humorous.  Another time there was some bad thought patterns that I couldn't shake for an hour or so (seemed a lot longer of course), and this coincided with severe couchlock/paralysis.  That time it was very unpleasant.  Trip ended quite pleasantly though. 

Not clear on the op's theory - is the responsible culprit linked in any way to poor storage/preservation as is the case with low acid food not being properly autoclaved?


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InvisibleNothingsChangedS
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: slugtree22]
    #20853887 - 11/18/14 12:30 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Ive experienced the situation after  fresh,dreid and boiled(steeped). If that helps. For me anyways. I'm sticking with the dose/potency theiry. 4+ g = legs give out. Just my experience. Any ive got many years exerience. It's really rare somebody doesn't know something.


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: slugtree22]
    #20854246 - 11/18/14 04:17 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

randallsbook said:
Ive experienced the situation after  fresh,dreid and boiled(steeped). If that helps. For me anyways. I'm sticking with the dose/potency theiry. 4+ g = legs give out. Just my experience. Any ive got many years exerience. It's really rare somebody doesn't know something.




I have also noticed that typically paralysis sets in in the 2-4gram range. I don't think it is necessarily related to potency though. While yes, shrooms can get you so high that you experience paralysis (it has happened to me on indoor grown cubes, alien shit man...), the type of paralysis we are talking about here is completely different and seems to be exclusive to wood lovers or may I dare to say, outdoor grown wood lovers and mushrooms in general. But, yeah 4+g of azzies=legs give out is a pretty good scale to go by. Indoor grown cubes have never caused this kind of paralysis and I have eaten tons of cubes.

Quote:

slugtree22 said:
Not clear on the op's theory - is the responsible culprit linked in any way to poor storage/preservation as is the case with low acid food not being properly autoclaved?




Um yes, sort of... poor storage/preservation can cause a myriad of different health problems. This theory in-particular deals with the build up of histamine caused by bacteria who are capable of producing histamine in spoiled food, particularly fish, clams, mushrooms etc. I have heard that the more damaged your shrooms the more likely they are harboring bacteria that are responsible for producing the high levels of histamine.


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #20854628 - 11/18/14 07:32 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

i just want to point out that mast cells produce histamines into the body and it's not a histamine "intolerance" that the body is reacting to.  It builds in the system and once your bucket is full you are overloaded.
link


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: RiverDweller1]
    #20854982 - 11/18/14 10:01 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RiverDweller1 said:
i just want to point out that mast cells produce histamines into the body and it's not a histamine "intolerance" that the body is reacting to.  It builds in the system and once your bucket is full you are overloaded.
link




Yes, that has already been pointed out. We are already past that. Mushrooms are one of the foods that have been listed as a "histamine-rich food" link, especially when stored improperly. While yes, mast cells produce Histamine triggered by foreign invaders, when the body ingests high levels of histamine it also causes the body to react in the same way. It builds in your system and once you bucket is full it gets over loaded.

Just out of curiosity, what 'foreign invader' do you think is causing the histamine response?


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #20855526 - 11/18/14 12:28 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
what 'foreign invader' do you think is causing the histamine response?




One could probably only guess. Assuming it enters the body with the mushroom
it is possible that the "invader" is part of the mushroom. Problem is you'll
need an analysis of it, and probably also do medical tests on one or several
persons subject to the paralysis.

How large percentage of the wood lover consuming population has experienced
this severe form of paralysis? Does it happen more often with certain species
as opposed to others?

Perhaps you could start a poll thread to get a rough estimate on the numbers
you're dealing with. You should also try to gather as much information as
possible on the mushroom species in question.


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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Anglerfish]
    #20855840 - 11/18/14 01:27 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
I remember it has also
been speculations regarding possible chemicals added to the wood chip substrate.




Has any one here experienced this from there own cultivated patches? I'm just thinking abit more about the chemicals in the substrate theory.

I've been lucky enough to have never experience this personally, but to those of you who have does this only happen when you have consumed wild picks? or does it also happen with your own cultivated specimens? "assuming you have grown your own?"

It would be interesting to see some feedback from people who trip on both and whether or not pasteurizing the substrate first may make any difference? if indeed chemicals filtered through the mushrooms from the substrate their feeding from are playing any part in this?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Bubbles85]
    #20856377 - 11/18/14 03:09 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I had an interesting idea. What about a mycelium extract?

Ive grown wild ps cyan mycelium on some wheat berries, and it went well. I tried to use it to make outdoor patches, didnt work so well.

But i could grow some more mycelium on wheat or PF jars, do a simple cranberry extraction and eat that. If no paralysis, i will move up to wood chips.


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #20857591 - 11/18/14 07:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

To add to the chemicals in the substrate theory... I have also wondered if the large patches of amanitas near by could possibly be effecting the azures. Here is an example of how closely they can grow. This picture was taken on the Washington coast near Astoria.

Note the two growing side by side, inches apart:



Also, ergot fungus grows on phalaris grass which produces lsa, even more histamine as well as other alkaloids. It seems that there are multiple sources of chemicals for the mushroom to soak up. As author of the the book "the Tipping point" points out, 'its is typically alot of little things that make something happen rather than one big thing.'

It is possible that the mushrooms not only contain high levels of histamine from bacterial break down of the mushrooms themselves, but also could be the very cause of the histamine response, at the same time could be soaking up concentrated histamine from fungal/bacterial break down in the surrounding environment as well as whatever else may be lurking in the ground such as C.botulinum or even ibotenic acid and muscimol from the amanitas mycelial mat.

As it turns out, ergot alkaloids can also cause people to have "convulsions, appear dazed, be unable to speak or have other forms of paralysis or tremors, and suffer from hallucinations and other distorted perceptions."

One thing to remember it that anti-histamines were an effective treatment against the debilitating paralysis.


The plot thickens....


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #20857614 - 11/18/14 07:25 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Ergot poisoning, interesting theory....

Anyone got Azure spores to test this theory?


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Offlinenomadbrad
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #20858519 - 11/18/14 11:29 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

With all that's going on in the brain during a trip, could it simply be ones mental state causing the paralysis?  And if it couldn't be, may I ask why not?


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #20859034 - 11/19/14 05:32 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nomadbrad said:
With all that's going on in the brain during a trip, could it simply be ones mental state causing the paralysis?




A good point, since knowledge of "all that's going on in the brain during a trip" is still
limited. I've never been paralyzed but high doses have given me heavy body load - giving
me the feeling of being "glued" to the chair or whatever place I was sitting. But it was
not an ill feeling, just "funny".

Other than that I've also had muscle cramps and tremors (quite strong in some cases) in my legs
but that is strictly limited to the early onset and disappears before the wave hits me.


Quote:

And if it couldn't be, may I ask why not?




The most valid point would perhaps be the descriptions of a strong physical discomfort and the fact
that it is recognized as a paralysis at the time of tripping. In that respect it seems to be a side
effect that could hardly be recognized as "just" mental. I mean, the cases mentioned seemed to have
happened with seasoned trippers on high doses. It doesn't appear to be so-called "bad trips".

Then again, it is hard to be sure when all this is really just speculation.

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
To add to the chemicals in the substrate theory... I have also wondered if the large patches of amanitas near by could possibly be effecting the azures. Here is an example of how closely they can grow. This picture was taken on the Washington coast near Astoria.

Note the two growing side by side, inches apart:





I find it highly unlikely that a nearby growing mushroom would chemically affect another species directly.
If, however, any theory or documentation is supporting or pointing towards such a possibility, please find it and post it.

The closest possibility I see could be that a parasitic fungus with affinity for both
species could spread from the one to the other.

It is very easy (and fun) to make speculations, but it appears to me the question should
be treated seriously, thus a narrowing down of possibilities should be the preferred way
to solve the problem.

Biggest problem is we're basically dealing with a Class A substance, and getting research
done for the benefit of users is probably very difficult.


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Anglerfish]
    #20859056 - 11/19/14 05:56 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

It adds nothing to this conversation really as I have little experience with Wood-Lovers, However High Dose paralysis is real :laugh2:
The only time I was paralyzed for a substantial amount of time was after consuming close to 1000 Liberty Caps in a Tea among myself and 2 others, while doing Hot knives of Hash!.... long story short, complete paralysis for quite some time! :nonono:


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Liberty King]
    #20859081 - 11/19/14 06:10 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Liberty King said:
consuming close to 1000 Liberty Caps in a Tea among myself and 2 others, while doing Hot knives of Hash!




:wow: :wow: :wow:



:lol:


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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Anglerfish]
    #20859358 - 11/19/14 08:30 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah.... Those were my younger stupider days :slowtard:
One guy couldn't speak at all, the other (A Giant Muscle Man) could only say, in a whimpering voice, "Does my mother know where I am?" :what:
I was having a ball and then my heart clinched up, my muscles went "rigamortis" on me and I went down. I laid in the Bushes staring down at my body from above (the view of this seemed normal at the time) I watched my body go a swirl of colors, like Gasoline... Then I "came to", in my body again still unable to move or speak, even when someone was unknowingly standing on my hand.... Eventually my Chest heaved & heart clinched up again and I got up completely sober :nonono:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Liberty King]
    #20859595 - 11/19/14 10:18 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, a grand of libs? Thats insane.

I think we can safetly say you were paralysed from the trip itself.

or was he...:strokebeard:


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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #20859929 - 11/19/14 11:42 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Damn, a grand of libs? Thats insane.

I think we can safetly say you were paralysed from the trip itself.

or was he...:strokebeard:




Yeah that is one crazy ass dose. Last october "2013" i ate 175 fresh libs and that was definitely too many. haha.

Didn't experience any paralysis but it was one of the craziest experiences of my life. Haven't done that many since. Actually haven't gone over a few G's dry

1000 tho thats insane 

:trippnballs:


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InvisibleNothingsChangedS
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Re: The Cure For Azurescens Paralysis... [Re: Bubbles85]
    #20860371 - 11/19/14 01:34 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

[
1000 tho thats insane 

:trippnballs:



Is that a "boat"? Lol


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