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OfflineLaCasta
Beyond Good andEvil

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1,332
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine
    #2082253 - 11/07/03 10:23 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

I am taking a class about the history of the Israeli and Palestinian conflict and I figured something out. Israel has never wanted to or intend to give back the West Bank or Gaza. This goes back to the Ben Gurion mentality of securing all of "Ancient Israel" and through military force, showing the Arabs their supremacy. If anybody disagrees I can pull out many sources from my book which can validify my claim that Israel never wanted to give back the West Bank or Gaza. For example when Israel gave back the Sinai to the Egyptians, they demanded to make an omission to Resolution 242 that stated "the inadmissability of the conquest of land through war." Even though the Camp David Accords called for them to make a resolution to the autonomy of the Palestinian people, Begin never engaged in autonomy talks and stated he only intended to give the Palestinians personal rights and not political rights. So the conflict today is just an extension of this mentality of holding onto all parts of "Ancient Israel." Israel knows that the Palestinians tactics are not a real threat to the existance of Israel, so they rather keep them in a stalemate untill the Palestinians are beat into "submission". If they are in a state of war then peace can not be made and that means they dont have to give back any land.

Ever wonder why Israel engages in a "targeted assassination" right before they are supposed to have a meeting to negotiate?


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"Memories of high speeds when the cops crash, As I laugh pushin the gas while my glocks blast" -RIP Tupac


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 5 years, 13 days
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: LaCasta]
    #2082376 - 11/07/03 11:23 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

yep


I am glad that you are an american youth thinking outside the sheep

godd for you 5 shrooms to you !

and while in the american school system no less!!!

www.jewsnotzionists.org


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: LaCasta]
    #2082480 - 11/07/03 11:53 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

If the Arabs had won the Arab-Israeli wars, do you think they would
have graciously given back the lands that they conquered? Fuck no.
The Israelis certainly are no saints, and neither are the Arabs.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2082576 - 11/08/03 12:24 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Good point.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Evolving]
    #2082669 - 11/08/03 01:09 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Well for me the main thing is this...

...ever since 1967 Israel has persued a path of EXTREMIST aggression
religon can be dangerous, and it seems the media only like to talk about islamic extremism.




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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082749 - 11/08/03 01:34 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
...ever since 1967 Israel has persued a path of EXTREMIST aggression



Is there any other kind? Humans are endowed with the ability to reason, when they resort to the initiation of force (aka, 'aggression') I find that extremist.

Quote:

religon can be dangerous,



I agree, but then there are other dogmas which have proven to be more dangerous than the worst of Islam, Judaism or Christianity. But these are 'secular' in nature and looked favorably upon by many as being 'progressive.' Even some of the milder barbarities perpetrated in the name of collectivism make Islamic extremists look like children pulling the wings off of flies.

Quote:

and it seems the media only like to talk about islamic extremism.



Well, the media in the U.S. often refer to many people they don't agree with as extremists. Many times, it is people who profess a strong faith in Christianity as well as staunch individual rights advocates who are tarred with the label of 'extremist.'


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleHanky
wiffle bat.
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Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082791 - 11/08/03 01:45 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

When the isreali tanks and bulldozers enter the palistinian towns at 3am and drive thru every home,shop and work place they can find.regardless of the human beings inside these buildings,it's not terrorism.
When they use apache attack hellicopters against rock throwers and to carry out 'assasination raids' it's not terrorism.
When they use violence and intimidation to steal land and subjugate the palistinians it's not terrorism.

seems like terrorism is actually defined by who your allies are.


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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Hanky]
    #2082866 - 11/08/03 02:22 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

"seems like terrorism is actually defined by who your allies are."

YES


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: LaCasta]
    #2083624 - 11/08/03 12:12 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

the second coming will not occur unless the
jews have reclaimed all of their land.

the end is nigh.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: afoaf]
    #2083636 - 11/08/03 12:21 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

"the second coming will not occur unless the
jews have reclaimed all of their land."

Thats what I am talking about and then you say I make no sense!!

Zionists christian ones anyway belive that!!

how SICK(and exremist:))


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2083641 - 11/08/03 12:25 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.



Each day, Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza violate articles of the 4th Geneva Convention on Human Rights, an agreement that governs wartime rules of engagement and to which Israel is a signatory. Palestinian homes and agriculture fields are routinely demolished to make way for illegal Israeli settlements. Israeli soldiers regularly arrest and detain--often for years-- Palestinians without due process. According to Amnesty International, members of the Israeli security forces regularly use torture and prolonged incommunicado detention against Palestinians.


Israel is an Apartheid State
Israel has developed an elaborate system of racial discrimination, embedded in its legal system, rivaling Apartheid South Africa's laws. These laws include the Law of Entry, the Law of Return, the Citizenship Law, the Military Service Law, and a host of legally sanctioned, discriminatory rabbinical rulings. Palestinians are denied various welfare benefits, access to many jobs, and the leasing of homes and land controlled by government bodies. Electricity, sewerage, and roads are provided free to Israeli households, whereas many Palestinian communities in Israel, and especially in the Occupied Territories, have existed for decades without adequate services. Laws governing land ownership such as the Law of Acquisition of Absentee Property and the Law for Acquisition of Land blatantly discriminate against Palestinians. Indeed, land ownership in Palestine is more unjust than it ever wasin South Africa; at the height of apartheid, black people nominally `controlled' 13 percent of the land, whereas in Israel the Palestinians control only 2 percent of the land.


Blockades which allow settlers free movement but restrict Palestinians have lost 100,000 workers their jobs. The Israeli government issues identification cards and car number-plates, color coded, which restrict travel for non-Jews. Palestinians in the West Bank are routinely prevented from travelling to the Gaza Strip because they have to travel through `Israeli' territory. No significant industry has been permitted to develop in the West Bank or Gaza. Consequently, Palestinians are concentrated in the lowest paying jobs and form a super-exploited labour force for Israeli capital. The occupied territories import 93% of goods but export a mere 7% of what they produce. Palestinian exports to Western Europe are banned so as not to compete with Israeli exports. Ninety percent of Palestinian workers must travel to Jewish towns for employment.

stick to the issues!!
please keep the HATE in OTD where it belongs afoaf!


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (11/08/03 12:27 PM)


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OfflineLaCasta
Beyond Good andEvil

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1,332
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2084446 - 11/08/03 05:42 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
If the Arabs had won the Arab-Israeli wars, do you think they would
have graciously given back the lands that they conquered? Fuck no.
The Israelis certainly are no saints, and neither are the Arabs.




That is a good point, but not entirely accurate. It was the Arabs land to begin with, so if they were fighting to defend it why would they then give it up? If the Arabs had won the war would they have graciously given back the land to Israel? No. Would they have allowed them to live in peace without humiliating them, violating their civil rights, and discriminating agaisnt them? Probbably, non-muslims were treated very good from the time when Saladin ruled Palestine all the way untill the Ottoman Empire.


--------------------

"Memories of high speeds when the cops crash, As I laugh pushin the gas while my glocks blast" -RIP Tupac


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2084554 - 11/08/03 06:30 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

you move fluidly in and out of coherence...


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: afoaf]
    #2085288 - 11/08/03 10:59 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

ONCE again!!!
afoaf!
stick to the issues!

Do you have anything to say??????, I think you would rather make fun and make no counterpoint,then have to........"debate" the issues.

Scary thought that you might actually use this forum for what it is intended for, so keep the hate in OTD , where it belongs.

Just cause I dont agree with you I wont discuss fucking your mother , etc, I would rather catch you with nothing to say, which it seems I have a couple times in the last little while.

Psilocybeingz


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2085469 - 11/08/03 11:55 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Here's the link to the cut and paste which comprises Psilocybeingzz's post:

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/5_reasons_to_stop_us_military_aid.htm





pinky


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: I figured out the Israeli position on Palestine [Re: Phred]
    #2085959 - 11/09/03 06:01 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

So what look at my links at the bottom genius!!!!!!!!!

thats were I got it !

I am not claiming that I wrote it I just posted it.

also since we are on the subject
here are the other groups that support thats statement!!!!!!!

Gush Shalom ? International Solidarity Movement ? Jews Against the Occupation ? Matzpun
Academics for Justice ? Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign ? A Jewish Voice for Peace
Palestine Children's Welfare Fund ? Palestine Right to Return Coalition ? All About Palestine
Colorado Campaign for Middle East Peace ? Vermonters for a Just Peace in Palestine/Israel
Not in My Name ? Americans United for Palestinian Human Rights ? Golshan Society
Boycott Israeli Goods ? Jewish Friends of Palestine ? Citizens for Fair Legislation


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