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OfflineBambi
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Turning poop into fertilizer
    #20807956 - 11/07/14 10:27 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hery, I am working on a school based project about turning human feces into a biochar (charcoal that is used as a fertilizer) and I wss wondering if there were enough people interested in it to hear from my perspective. Let me know if you are interested.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Bambi]
    #20808734 - 11/08/14 04:58 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I am interested. Especially if you have data.


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OfflineBambi
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: XUL]
    #20808939 - 11/08/14 07:16 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Nah we don't have much data; we are in a weird spot since human waste is considered a bio-hazard so we cannot handle it... nor do i particularity want to haha.

Ill try to post something expanding on this later


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Offlinetokeweed420
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Bambi]
    #20832232 - 11/13/14 01:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:ducklol:


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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: tokeweed420]
    #20894802 - 11/26/14 08:47 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I mean if you heat it up, compress it, and remove the oxygen it would kill all the bacteria. I'm intrigued, you call it biochar. Does this mean you're actually going to incinerate the biosolids and use the remaining charcoal for land application, because this won't necessarily be a super effective fertilzer, as the nitrogen will at least volatilize during combustion. I'm not sure about phosphorus, but you'll at least change the form of the phosphorus from phosphate to something different.


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InvisibleMykes logos
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: theonlysun81] * 1
    #20896589 - 11/27/14 11:00 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hello,

We use all kinds of poop in our permaculture systems here in Southwest Florida. I get fish water from my friend's aquaponic tilapia tanks, then mix sugar, nutritional yeast, un-sulphured molasses, and chicken manure and worm castings. Throw a little fish tank pump in there for aeration (maybe some Cajanus cajan leaves for more N), then 2 days or so later that's my fertilizer tea that I distribute amongst my fruit trees, bananas, papayas, etc.

Alternatively you can foliar feed your annual vegetables w/ fish water, worm tea, etc. Excellent for their health- keeps bugs, bacteria, fungi, etc. away.

What exactly are you doing?

My next project is growing shaggy mane mushrooms underneath the rabbit cages :tongue:

EDIT: humanure is a touchy subject, especially around schools :rofl:

I know a few ppl who have composting toilets and use their humanure. I know of a missionary training institute who uses a shit load, too (see what I did there).

I'll PM some people and share this thread w/ them... maybe they can help.

Cheers


Edited by Mykes logos (11/27/14 11:02 AM)


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20909629 - 11/30/14 06:48 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

i threw some coprinus comatus mushroom caps and contaminated coffee spawn into my humanure pile and it is definitely having a good time in there. i just hope the pile doesn't cook it. i know C comatus likes high N environments but I don't think it can withstand temps over 110 F, which the pile should theoretically reach during peak decomposition. We just finished filling the pile so I'll update when I have more info. This is our first time using a humanure collection system and I, too, look forward to rendering our waste into a useful fertilizer. I'm not sure biochar is the answer, though....


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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #20909671 - 11/30/14 06:58 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Right on, Niki. I'm not too familiar with humanure systems, but I've done biochar in 55-gallon barrels a few times. We use thin chunks of palm, bamboo, and whatever else we have on hand; however, we always use something of uniform size- not too big, not too small... the goal of biochar is to have a uniform chunks. Poop sounds tricky.


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Offlinelovemusic
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20963018 - 12/11/14 05:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

nice post


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Offlinewyrdjoy23
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: lovemusic]
    #20968985 - 12/12/14 09:56 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I prefer making jenkem out of my poop.


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Offlinewyrdjoy23
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: wyrdjoy23]
    #20969276 - 12/12/14 10:53 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Actually I'm really interested. I've done humanure with a simple bucket system and compost pile before.


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OfflineBambi
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: wyrdjoy23]
    #20994210 - 12/18/14 01:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Alright, sorry about the delay in posting something of content; I was a bit blackout when I first posted the thread and was not ready to actually make a real post.

So first off; Char is a carbon-rich substance produced when a biomass is heated in the absence of oxygen (so combustion cannot take place). This char can be created and used for two primary purposes: to be burned (charcoal) or as a soil amendment (biochar). Other uses include as a water filter or carbon sequestering method but these are less common. With respect to biochar in particular; it is generally used as a fertilizer to improve the soil conditions. It improves soil by altering the pH, housing pro-microorganisms, storing nutrients, and providing some nutrients on its own. So essentially the characteristics that determine a bichar's capacity as a fertilizer are: the pH, pore size, available nitrogen, available phosphorus, and other available chemicals (such as heavy metals).

Okay; so the creation of biochar (or char in general) involves the heating of a feedstock, that contains carbon, in an absence of oxygen. A couple methods to do this are gasification, [dry] pyrolysis, and hydrothermal carbonization (HTC) (otherwise referred to as wet pyrolysis). Gasification: this process basically just produces gas and not very much char. [Dry] pyrolysis is an umbrella term covering many different specific techniques; one of the better char producing techniques is known as carbonization. Carbonization benefits greatly from a dry (~15% or so moisture content by weight) feedstock, but human waste is generally wet and isnt the easiest substance to dry. So HTC would be the best (well at least my favorite) method to create biochar from human waste.

HTC is special in that the feedstock should have a high moisture content (75-90% by weight) and is heated in a pressurized chamber so that the water cannot evaporate (thus saving lots of energy) and the char product is supposed to be slightly hydro-phobic so drying post process is less energy intensive. HTC generally involves a strict temperature range between 180 and 220 degrees Celsius. The feedstock residence time should be within this range for about 4 to 12 hours. This correlates with a pressure reaching over 25 bars. The drawbacks obviously being that the temperature has to be strictly regulated and the requirement of a pressurized chamber.

This leaves us with the question, will the product be of any use as a fertilizer? Hopefully.

I will come back to better answer this question in the future; right now, due to the circumstances of my project, I only know the theoretical outputs from carbonization. Although I believe the ranges to be similar for HTC. With carbonization, the temperature and residence time play a direct impact on the ash content and thus the pH. Studies (using human waste) have shown that the available heavy metals are within acceptable ranges for application to food crops in the US. Studies have also shown that there is some available nitrogen, but are vague on available phosphorus. And I have no idea about the optimal pore size as a fertilizer.

Remember I have no experience in the creation of biochar; I just have completed some research in the field.

To Mykes logos: I dont see why there is a need for uniform chunks. Uniform pore size sure, but not necessarily chunks. But you could always "grind" the product to try and get a uniform size, then sift out the smaller undesirable sizes.

Also, would you guys prefer this to focus more on the better HTC method or the easier carbonization method?


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Edited by Bambi (12/18/14 01:38 PM)


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OfflineOggy
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Bambi]
    #21002757 - 12/20/14 11:31 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Human poop is dangerous, however urine is extremely valuable in gardening. Right up there with compost.
Still interested in data from this, though.


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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Oggy]
    #21002791 - 12/20/14 11:37 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I remembering reading about waste treatment centers using special worms to filter and convert human waste back to usable drinking water lol idk of it has anything to do with this but may be worth a look


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OfflineBambi
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Re: Turning poop into fertilizer [Re: Oggy]
    #21002959 - 12/20/14 12:18 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Oggy said:
Human poop is dangerous, however urine is extremely valuable in gardening. Right up there with compost.
Still interested in data from this, though.




Handling of feces may be dangerous due to the pathogens, but according to US EPA 503 regulations in order to eliminate harmful pathogens in order for a substance to be applied to land; the substance must be heated according to:


Residence Time (in Days) = 131,700,000/10^(0.14*Temperature in C)

or (Depending on percentage of solids in waste)

Residence Time (in Days) = 50,070,000/10^(0.14*Temperature in C)


By heating to 180 C the residence time would only have to be 8.3E-18 or 3.2E-18 Days, which is way smaller than a second

So in theory the waste would be sanitized through the process and no longer dangerous


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