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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: silversoul7]
    #2082691 - 11/07/03 11:15 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes people's words give us clues that prompt us to question their reasoning. I did request an explanation and used the word 'some.' You could have assumed my questions were intended to prompt everyone to think, then your assumption would have been correct.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (11/07/03 11:20 PM)

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: silversoul7]
    #2082783 - 11/07/03 11:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I wasnt speaking about Regan. I said a comment about him and then I made a seperate comment.

I think pretty much everyone here is versed enough to know who I was talking about.

Perhaps it was confusing.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: silversoul7]
    #2082813 - 11/07/03 11:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Reagan wasnt a religious man?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/filmmore/reference/interview/nancyreagan01.html

Nancy Reagan on:
What Religion Meant to her Husband

Well he has a deep belief in God and that everything happens for a reason, which we may not understand at the time it happens but that God has a plan for each of us and you know you begin to think that really someone is looking out for him. In Sacramento, when he was first sworn in it was a gray day and as he stepped up to the podium to give his speech, the clouds parted and the sun shone. When he finished, the clouds went back together. The same thing happened in Washington. And after the shooting, the next morning, there was a rainbow over the White House, so and just the shooting itself, he said to Cardinal Cook, I know that God was sitting on my shoulder.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2082824 - 11/07/03 11:59 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

In October 1983, Ronald Reagan leaned over to Tom Dine, the Israel lobby leader, and said: "You know, I turn back to your ancient prophets in the Old Testament and I find myself wondering if we're the generation that's going to see that come about. I don't know if you've noticed any of those prophecies recently, but believe me, they certainly describe the times we're going through."

http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/12/24/templeton/

I like this quote too:
In June 1989, Ronald Reagan said, "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders. ... The Goliath of totalitarianism will be brought down by the David of the microchip."


OMG I forgot about all this great Reagan stuff. The Reagan Doctrine.. what a gem that was. Here is an article with Issac Asimov's opinion on it.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/asimov.htm

Some time ago, Ronald Reagan pointed out that one couldn't trust the Soviet government because the Soviets didn't believe in God or in an afterlife and therefore had no reason to behave honorably, but would be willing to lie and cheat and do all sorts of wicked things to aid their cause. Naturally, I firmly believe that the president of the United States knows what he is talking about, so I've done my very best to puzzle out the meaning of that statement.

Let me begin by presenting this "Reagan Doctrine" (using the term with all possible respect): "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." If this is true (and it must be if the president says so), then people are just naturally dishonest and crooked and downright rotten. In order to keep them from lying and cheating every time they open their mouths, they must be bribed or scared out of doing so. They have to be told and made to believe that if they tell the truth and do the right thing and behave themselves, they will go to heaven and get to plunk a harp and wear the latest design in halos. They must also be told and made to believe that if they lie and steal and run around with the opposite sex, they are going to hell and will roast over a brimstone fire forever.

...snip

Oh and this speech about Israel and our Judeo Christian national bonds... gotta love it!
http://members.aol.com/VFTINC/history/Reagan.htm

And let me assure you, we will never attempt to impose a solution on Israel, nor will we ever weaken in our opposition to terrorism by the PLO or by anybody else. As I said when I addressed you in 1980, terrorists are not guerillas or commandos or freedom fighters or anything else. They're terrorists, and should be identified as such. We will go on working with all our hearts to help the people of the Middle East achieve a just and lasting settlement--a settlement that agrees, in the words of my statement of September 1982, that Israel "has a right to exist in peace behind secure and defensible borders, and it has a right to expect its neighbors to recognize this."

When I spoke to you 4 years ago, peace was eluding the Middle East. It still does. But now we and the State of Israel have far greater cause for hope.

Today the United States is rebuilding its defenses, and that is restoring confidence in our leadership and making the parties more willing to take risks for peace. Today the United States has re-energized its vast and productive economy, and that will help to make Israel more prosperous. And today the United States has stopped wringing its hands apologetically and once again begun to play its rightful role in the world with faith, confidence, and courage. And that means Israel can depend on us.

We who are friends of Israel may differ over tactics, but our goal remains always unchanged--permanent security for the people of that brave State. In this great enterprise, the United States and Israel stand forever united. And as we approach the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah, let us pray that the new year will be a Shanah Tovah Umetukah--a good and sweet year for both America and Israel.

For make no mistake: In a world where so many are hostile to freedom, where millions live in poverty and oppression, those few nations who share the light of liberty must stand together. If we do not, we take the awful chance that the darkness will overwhelm us one by one. But standing together, we can pierce the darkness and shed our light over all the Earth.

Thank you. God bless you all.

Closing remarks of second inaugural address:
It is the American sound. It is hopeful, big-hearted, idealistic, daring, decent, and fair. That's our heritage; that is our song. We sing it still. For all our problems, our differences, we are together as of old, as we raise our voices to the God who is the Author of this most tender music. And may He continue to hold us close as we fill the world with our sound--sound in unity, affection, and love--one people under God, dedicated to the dream of freedom that He has placed in the human heart, called upon now to pass that dream on to a waiting and hopeful world.

God bless you and may God bless America.


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Edited by PsiloKitten (11/08/03 01:25 AM)

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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: adrug]
    #2082934 - 11/08/03 01:03 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

If I'm not mistaken, Reagan occassionally got policy advice from his wife's astrologer.




Carl Sagan used to rip him a new asshole about that all the time.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2083200 - 11/08/03 05:08 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Indeed, it is an incontrovertible fact that all the complex and horrendous questions confronting us at home and worldwide have their answer in that single book.
? Ronald Reagan
The King James Bible, Newsweek, Dec. 27, 1982 p.46

One of Reagan's radio addresses:
What would you say if someone decided Shakespeare's plays, Charles Dicken's novels, or the music of Beethoven could be rewritten & improved?
I'll be right back. . .

Writing in the journal "The Alternative", Richard Hanser, author of The Law & the Prophets and Jesus: What Manner of Man Is This?, has called attention to something that is more than a little mind boggling. It is my understanding that the Bible (both the Old & New Testaments) has been the best selling book in the entire history of printing.

Now another attempt has been made to improve it. I say another because there have been several fairly recent efforts to quote "make the Bible more readable & understandable" unquote. But as Mr. Hanser so eloquently says, "For more than 3 1/2 centuries, its language and its images, have penetrated more deeply into the general culture of the English speaking world, and been more dearly treasured, than anything else ever put on paper." He then quotes the irreverent H. L. Mencken, who spoke of it as purely a literary work and said it was, "probably the most beautiful piece of writing in any language."

They were, of course, speaking of The Authorized Version, the one that came into being when the England of King James was scoured for translators & scholars. It was a time when the English language had reached it's peak of richness & beauty.

Now we are to have The Good News Bible which will be in, "the natural English of everyday adult conversation." I'm sure the scholars and clergymen supervised by the American Bible Society were sincerely imbued with the thought that they were taking religion to the people with their Good News Bible, but I can't help feeling we should instead be taking the people to religion and lifting them with the beauty of language that has outlived the centuries.

Mr. Hanser has quoted from both the St. James Version & the Good News Bible some well known passages for us to compare. A few thousand years ago Job said "How forcible are right words!" [Job 6:25] The new translators have him saying "Honest words are convincing." That's only for openers. There is the passage [Eccl. 1:18], "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow". Is it really an improvement to say instead, "The wiser you are, the more worries you have; the more you know the more it hurts."

In the New Testament, in Mathew, we read "The voice of the one crying in the wilderness. Prepare ye the way." [Matthew 3:3] The Good News version translates that, "Someone is shouting in the desert. Get the road ready." It sounds like a straw boss announcing lunch hour is over.

The hauntingly beautiful 23rd Psalm is the same in both versions, for a few words, "The Lord is my shepherd" but instead of continuing "I shall not want" we are supposed to say "I have everything I need."

The Christmas story has undergone some modernizing but one can hardly call it improved. The wondrous words "Fear not: for; behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy" has become, "Don't be afraid! I am here with good news for you."

The sponsors of the Good News version boast that their Bible is as readable as the daily paper ? and so it is. But do readers of the daily news find themselves moved to wonder, "at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth"? Mr. Hanser suggests that sadly the "tinkering & general horsing around with the sacred texts will no doubt continue" as pious drudges try to get it right. "It will not dawn on them that it has already been gotten right."

This is Ronald Reagan. Thanks for listening.


? aired September 6, 1977

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/reagan.html


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2083633 - 11/08/03 10:19 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"terrorists are not guerillas or commandos or freedom fighters
or anything else. They're terrorists"

that's a real gem.

reagan should be personally thanked for his wonderful
efforts in the first war on terrorism.

I wonder if it was his inability to address these people
as something more than just 'terrorists' that led to the
repeated targeting of US interests in the middle east
and ultimately the downing of Pan Am 103.

I feel like we're taking the same path today.

instead of addressing their grievances, we vilify, discredit,
malign and misrepresent the enemy.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: afoaf]
    #2083924 - 11/08/03 12:36 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

instead of addressing their grievances, we vilify, discredit,
malign and misrepresent the enemy.





But that is the American way.


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2084314 - 11/08/03 02:49 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

what is the official definition of terrorism?

I remember back in the 90's hearing that the definition of "terrorist" is a group or person who uses fear, violence, and threats to get their way.

If that is true, doesnt that make all governments "terrorist" in a way?

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2084342 - 11/08/03 03:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Yes.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2084439 - 11/08/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I remember back in the 90's hearing that the definition of "terrorist" is a group or person who uses fear, violence, and threats to get their way.






I think more than certain governments are guilty of that. I'm sure every one of us has used that tactic to get their way at some point in their life.

Corporations regularly use that tactic...especially now that democratic law has been trumped with "free trade" agreements.

"unless you submit to worse working conditions, lower environmental protection and lower taxes, we're gonna move all the capital to China,(Thialand, Mexico, the southern USA, etc) then you'll have nothing. So what will it be? Nothing or something (pathetic)
Sound familiar?

Of course it helps to point out that these terrorist corporations are not suffering, no usually they are fabulously rich, they just want to make even more money at the expense of those actually doing the work to produce the wealth.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

Edited by carbonhoots (11/08/03 03:46 PM)

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2084492 - 11/08/03 04:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Tell us what corporations in the U.S. are using violence and not violating the law.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: Evolving]
    #2084550 - 11/08/03 04:28 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not trying to cover for carbonhoots, but how
could they use violence without violating the law?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: afoaf]
    #2084727 - 11/08/03 05:43 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

They can't. For him to equate corporations operating legally with terrorists is sheer idiocy.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Jessica Lynch Criticizes U.S. Accounts of Her Ordeal [Re: Evolving]
    #2084927 - 11/08/03 07:10 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Hrmm.

Here is another Jessica Lynch story where she says the pentagon used her.

Im enlightened and NED is a fucking marketing think tank. That's what I have to say.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1081207,00.html


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