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Offlinecreekfarmer
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Registered: 06/27/03
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polymer casing
    #2076767 - 11/06/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Has anyone tried using hydrated polymers for casing? I live in the woods and trichoderma has proven to be a wall I can't get past. I feel like if I can case without organic material I might be able to get on with things. Please let me know what experience with a strictly polymer casing any of you have.


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: polymer casing [Re: creekfarmer]
    #2076816 - 11/06/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hey I had the exact same thought. however instead of using silica crystals which are relatively expensive I thought about using kitty litter crystals which is much cheaper. In my theory I would hydrate them and use like vermiculite. Anyone have any thoughts on this??


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: polymer casing [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2076871 - 11/06/03 01:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think that kitty litter crystals are silica, but you would use those to dry mushrooms, not as a casing. I think the silica would absolutely ruin the casing!

But to creekfarmer, tried it once, so I know it works. If you want more details than that, search, but unfortunately I don't think the posts go back as far in the past as it was when I posted my results.


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PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: polymer casing [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2076876 - 11/06/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yes. Mixed results didnt use it more than once. Its a real bitch trying to peel of the crystals from the bottom of the mushrooms.
Now you could maybe add it to the substrate. But I never messed with that.

Oh I never used a straight polymer casing. I used a cocco/Verm/calcium/polly crystal mix.


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: polymer casing [Re: ]
    #2078551 - 11/06/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yes silica is used to dry shrooms when they are not saturated because they have the ability to pull a great deal of moisture from the air. However, when they are saturated they can only release that moisture. And since they are not prone to contamination I think they may be a viable alternative since creekfarmer is having such a hard time with trichoderma. Even stamets suggests the use of water retaining crystals as a substrate layer.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: polymer casing [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2079409 - 11/07/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe something like Hygromull could work.

Quote:


Hygromul is an expanded plastic, tolerated by plants. It is obtained in the expanding of a condensation product of urea and formaldehyde. The material has a spongy structure, i.e. mostly open cells and therefore high water holding capacity. Hygromul is a soil amendment agent, which in light soils and substrates holds water and makes possible a good utilization of the water from natural rainfalls and sprinkler irrigation.





http://www.actahort.org/books/17/17_9.htm


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
    #2079432 - 11/07/03 03:02 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Eh no, it probably can't be pasteurized.


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
    #2079589 - 11/07/03 04:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well it shouldn't really need pasteurization since it doesn't support the growth of contaminants. Right?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: polymer casing [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2079774 - 11/07/03 05:14 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe, if you moist it with peroxidated or bleached water.
I'll give it a try - if I can get it anywhere.


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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
    #2081798 - 11/07/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't touch it w/ bleach.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: polymer casing [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2082170 - 11/07/03 09:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

My experience with polyacrylamide crystals is that they are very difficult to contaminate.  I've never seen them contaminate. 
A major downside of using them alone as a casing layer is that they colonize like substrate.  This is a two-fold problem; not only do they not seem to provide a good microclimate/nutrient-step-down, but if the mycelium is actively colonizing it, it may be breaking it down.  Polyacrylamide is essentially non-toxic;  acrylamide, the building blocks of it, is very toxic/carcinogenic.  The first problem essentially seems to result in an over-colonized casing [i.e. big-ass PF cake :smile: ].  I have a pic around here somewhere. . .A thin layer of crystals may actually provide an effective contamination barrier, at the cost of surface microclimate.
It may be safe to use in such a manner, but the research has not been done on what fungi do with this material. 
They are very cool to play with, though, and may have a good role in casing mixtures at the least. 


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: polymer casing [Re: Suntzu]
    #2083095 - 11/08/03 05:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't think of that. So it is possible that mushroom consumes this urea and formaldehyde hygromull and breaks it into its toxic compounds.
Formaldehyde is carcinogenic too, right?


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Anonymous

Re: polymer casing [Re: zeronio]
    #2089096 - 11/10/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I dint get sick yet from those mushrooms that grew on those crystals. But only time will tell. But I have to say that it is a real bitch to clean them off when they grow onto the polly crystal. I didnt notice any mycelium growing into the crystal. But they sort of just latch on and absorb the moisture


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: polymer casing [Re: ]
    #2089160 - 11/10/03 01:21 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

It can't be good. Everything is a carcinogen, now -- I don't think there's any solid proof, but we're really careful with polyacrylamide in the lab.

Oh, yeah -- formaldehyde is definately carcinogenic.

--
Micro


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Edited by micro (11/10/03 01:22 PM)


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Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
Re: polymer casing [Re: micro]
    #2089190 - 11/10/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I find these gels to be most helpful in casings, especially this stuff, a potassium (vs. sodium) based polyacrylamide gel: Terra-sorb. The trick is to use it sparingly, maybe 2 tbs/l of casing. it really cuts down on the amount of spraying/ hydrating you need to do.

I doubt the gel is itself soluble enough to be consumed by the mycelium, so I wouldn't worry about toxic metabolites.

My 2 cents,
Armedia


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Invisiblearmedia
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Re: polymer casing [Re: armedia]
    #2089202 - 11/10/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Oh, and it does stand up to pasteurizing, or microwaving (i haven't tried autoclaving, but I imagine that would not work.)

- A


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