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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Oyster mushroom facility in hungary
    #20756747 - 10/26/14 07:00 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I was just reading a paper on the cultivation of oyster mushrooms and in the section on pasteurization methods it talked of a company in Hungary that pasteurizes it's straw with no extra added heat other than the heat generated by piling the straw. It said once the material would start to self heat they would load it into an insulated chamber and allow the substrate to heat itself to 155F. They then would push it out and let it cool by allowing fresh air to cool the substrate. Then they would bag it. All without no additional thermal resources.

Their result. they are one of the largest operations in their area. That's nice!!



Here is their web address.

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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: lipa]
    #20756782 - 10/26/14 07:07 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Thats a pretty genius concept! And apparently to good result.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: lipa]
    #20756787 - 10/26/14 07:07 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

if those are the 5-10lb clusters that they look like...dddamn

:goodburger:


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OfflineBurblesV
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: drake89]
    #20756804 - 10/26/14 07:11 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

How big of pile of material is needed for it to reach that amount of heat?

I could imagine that a large box freezer full of shredded hay and manure could possibly each such temperatures by itself?

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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: Burbles]
    #20756826 - 10/26/14 07:17 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

They use nothing but straw in the pile. You don't want the material to compost.

They turn it regularly for 3-7 days before they load it into the chamber.

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Offlineforrest
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: lipa]
    #20757942 - 10/27/14 12:14 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

wow, that looks great!:shocked:


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OfflineSatori23
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: forrest]
    #20758672 - 10/27/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

What the actual f*ck.


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Offlineschlopp
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: Satori23]
    #20759058 - 10/27/14 11:09 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

interesting, but why heat the piles of wet straw up when they are not composting?

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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 3,149
Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: schlopp]
    #20759200 - 10/27/14 11:50 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

To pasteurize, straw from a field is covered in all sorts of potential contams.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #20759310 - 10/27/14 12:30 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

This method of composting has a whole chapter(V) devoted to it in The Mushroom Cultivator. 

It's termed PHASE I. and PHASE II. Composting and I'd guess its a common practice among many large scale mushroom growers.

Cool oyster picture...

:hairmetal:


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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: poofterFroth]
    #20759338 - 10/27/14 12:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
This method of composting has a whole chapter(V) devoted to it in The Mushroom Cultivator. 

It's termed PHASE I. and PHASE II. Composting and I'd guess its a common practice among many large scale mushroom growers.

Cool oyster picture...

:hairmetal:



No that is for secondary decomposers like the buttons/crimini/portobellos.  THey're strictly pasteurizing the straw like you would to make straw logs, except it looks like they're making gigantic straw bales.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #20759402 - 10/27/14 01:05 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Still sounds to me like a variation on PHASE I. & II. Composting; maybe just excluding the manure.

(Ricking and turning your straw outdoors till desired internal temps are achieved then moving it indoors and holding it at temp. to complete pasteurization.)
:sunny:


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Offlineschlopp
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #20759489 - 10/27/14 01:29 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MrGiraffe said:
To pasteurize, straw from a field is covered in all sorts of potential contams.




my question was a bit misleading formulated. i wanted to know how the straw is heating up itself, not why it needs to be heated up.

when it gets hot by itself there must be some microorganisms involved. the only thing that i can imagine what they are doing is decomposing the straw, but lipa said you dont want the straw to compost.
or is the idea to start the process until the pasteurization temperature is reached and then abort the process anyhow?

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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 3,149
Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: schlopp]
    #20759514 - 10/27/14 01:39 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

schlopp said:
Quote:

MrGiraffe said:
To pasteurize, straw from a field is covered in all sorts of potential contams.




my question was a bit misleading formulated. i wanted to know how the straw is heating up itself, not why it needs to be heated up.

when it gets hot by itself there must be some microorganisms involved. the only thing that i can imagine what they are doing is decomposing the straw, but lipa said you dont want the straw to compost.
or is the idea to start the process until the pasteurization temperature is reached and then abort the process anyhow?




Yea use the heat from the biomass to raise the temperature, then when it hits pasteurization temps, hold it there and then cool it to stop it from actually composting.


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Offlineworowa
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #20759599 - 10/27/14 01:59 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I do a similar thing with a compost tumbler, using sawdust, bran and straw. Mix it up and it heats up to only 130F...or 55C. After 3-5 days it cools down and I inoculate. Heaps of life in there at the start, by the time it's cooled it seems ready for the next wave of life to be introduced.


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OfflineKauai1984
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: worowa]
    #20759833 - 10/27/14 02:48 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

That's a monster grow!

I'm gonna give it a try with a 50gal drum

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OfflineSatori23
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: Kauai1984]
    #20760036 - 10/27/14 03:42 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

How on earth are those bales not anaerobic?


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: poofterFroth]
    #20760310 - 10/27/14 04:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
Still sounds to me like a variation on PHASE I. & II. Composting; maybe just excluding the manure.

(Ricking and turning your straw outdoors till desired internal temps are achieved then moving it indoors and holding it at temp. to complete pasteurization.)
:sunny:




They are actually excluding  phase 2 and shortening phase one. Although some companies phase 2 it by sustaining the temperature @ 122F for a while. These guys don't do that. they just let it get to temperature for 2-3 hrs to pasteurize the material.

Phase 2 takes a lot longer when you are composting the substrate because you have to give time for the nitrifying bacteria to convert the Ammonia to nitrogen. It takes days.....

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OfflineBurblesV
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: worowa]
    #20760479 - 10/27/14 05:29 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

worowa said:
I do a similar thing with a compost tumbler, using sawdust, bran and straw. Mix it up and it heats up to only 130F...or 55C. After 3-5 days it cools down and I inoculate. Heaps of life in there at the start, by the time it's cooled it seems ready for the next wave of life to be introduced.





What quantity do you use to reach those temperatures?

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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: lipa]
    #20762032 - 10/27/14 11:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Short composting is a method outlined in phase I. of TMC.

Phase II. begins for these guys when they decide to help raise the temp. to 155F and hold it at that temp. (pasteurization) inside an insulated chamber. The cooling of the sub is the conditioning stage.

Phase terminology aside; - this straw is generating its own heat due to microbial activity jump started by the addition of moisture. This is clearly a process of decomposition. Composting is merely a controlled decomposition. 

------
Great thread though. Inspiring and has me rethinking old and new ideas. Its always nice to be reminded that mushroom growing is ultimately a natural cycle and its not all about PC's and lab suits.


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Oyster mushroom facility in hungary [Re: poofterFroth]
    #20763015 - 10/28/14 09:05 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
Short composting is a method outlined in phase I. of TMC.
All composting in phase one is short composted. Mushrooms don't like fully composted materials. However, to do this requires

Phase II. begins for these guys when they decide to help raise the temp. to 155F and hold it at that temp. (pasteurization) inside an insulated chamber. The cooling of the sub is the conditioning stage.

Phase terminology aside; - this straw is generating its own heat due to microbial activity jump started by the addition of moisture. This is clearly a process of decomposition. Composting is merely a controlled decomposition. 

------
Great thread though. Inspiring and has me rethinking old and new ideas. Its always nice to be reminded that mushroom growing is ultimately a natural cycle and its not all about PC's and lab suits.




All composting in phase one is short composted. Mushrooms don't like fully composted materials. However, to do this requires about 25-30 days. We completely understand it's microbes heating the substrate. They are just using them to get the temperature up..... not to compost the substrate like you would in a phase one system.

There are two types of phase 2. High and low temp......High temp is basically when they pasteurize the material for 4 hours at 145F or so. They bring it back down to 122F for  days to condition and allow the nitrifying bacteria to convert the ammonia to nitrogen. The last part "IS" the conditioning part.... then they introduce fresh air to cool it however they are always allowing fresh air in to some extent or the process would stop.  Low temp is basically the same without the first part but for an extended period.

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