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Anonymous

some good news...
    #2074150 - 11/05/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

anyone who supports this practice is fucked up... and makes a mockery of any legitimate pro-choice arguments to be made. here's to a good law being passed for once.  :thumbup:
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/05/abortion.ap/index.html

Bush signs ban on late-term abortion
Nebraska judge raises constitutional questions
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 Posted: 3:17 PM EST (2017 GMT)


 
As members of congress look on, President Bush signs the Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003 Wednesday.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush signed legislation Wednesday banning a certain type of abortion, handing the disputed procedure's opponents a long-sought victory even as a federal judge at least partially blocked the new law from taking effect.

"For years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth while the law looked the other way," Bush said as he signed the ban on a procedure called partial-birth abortion by its critics. "Today at last the American people and our government have confronted the violence and come to the defense of the innocent child."

The White House staged the ceremony, before about 400 cheering lawmakers and abortion opponents, at a federal building named for former President Ronald Reagan, a strong supporter of anti-abortion groups. An "Amen" was heard from the audience as Bush sat down at a desk, before a row of American flags, to sign the bill passed last month by Congress.

But less than an hour after Bush put his pen to paper, a federal judge in Nebraska sharply questioned the law's constitutionality and issued a limited temporary restraining order against it. U.S. District Judge Richard Kopf said he was concerned that the ban contains no exception if the woman's health is at risk as he issued an injunction applied only to the four doctors who brought the suit.

"While it is also true that Congress found that a health exception is not needed, it is, at the very least, problematic whether I should defer to such a conclusion when the Supreme Court has found otherwise," Kopf said.

Besides Nebraska, hearings were also being held in San Francisco and New York City Wednesday on similar challenges.

Fully aware of the impending legal obstacles, Bush said, to a standing ovation and the longest round of applause during his brief remarks: "The executive branch will vigorously defend this law against any who would try to overturn it in the courts."

The president's signature represented an end to a legislative crusade that began after Republicans captured the House in 1995. Former President Clinton twice vetoed similar bills, arguing that they lacked an exception to protect the health of the mother.

The law, approved by the House and Senate late last month, prohibits doctors from committing an "overt act" designed to kill a partially delivered fetus and allows no exception if the woman's health is at risk, or if the child would be born with ailments. The procedure, which usually involves puncturing the fetus' skull, is generally performed in the second or third trimester.

Aware of its backing among the religious conservatives that make up a key portion of his base of political support, the president declared himself pleased to sign legislation he said would help him and others "build a culture of life" in America. To that end, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the president supports additional legislative moves -- which he did not specify -- to further restrict abortion.

"This right to life cannot be granted or denied by government, because it does not come from government -- it comes from the creator of life," the president said, receiving another lengthy standing ovation.

But Bush is also mindful of the more moderate voters he cannot afford to alienate, and last week repeated a position he offered during his 2000 campaign. He said he would not seek a total ban on abortion because public opinion had not yet shifted to support such a move.

The new law is similar to a Nebraska statute struck down by the Supreme Court three years ago and imposes the most far-reaching limits on abortion since the high court in 1973 established a woman's right to end a pregnancy.

Supporters argue the law applies only to a procedure done late in pregnancy -- and relatively rarely -- and that the procedure is never necessary to protect the health of the mother.

"As Congress has found, the practice is widely regarded within the medical profession as unnecessary, not only cruel to the child, but harmful to the mother and a violation of medical ethics," Bush said.

Overly broad language
But abortion-rights groups say the law has overly broad language that could criminalize several safe and common procedures, and fear it represents the first step in a larger campaign to eventually bar all abortions.

Outside the ceremony, the National Organization for Women conducted a protest of about 50 to 100 activists who chanted and held signs saying "Keep Abortion Legal" and "saveroe.com" -- a Web site named for the Roe v. Wade decision legalizing the procedure.

On Capitol Hill, critics urged the courts to declare the ban unconstitutional at a news conference outside the Supreme Court.

"President Bush and Congress have no business inserting themselves between American women and their doctors," said Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-New York.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,740
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Re: some good news... [Re: ]
    #2074168 - 11/05/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have to disagree. There should be an exception for the life of the mother.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074181 - 11/05/03 07:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Agreed.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: some good news... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2074192 - 11/05/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think that part of the requirements to be pro-abortion include being anti-death penality, and anti-firearm ownership. Obviously, criminals intent on breaking into your house and murderers deserve to live, but unborn children deserve to die.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: some good news... [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2074197 - 11/05/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

:wtf:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: some good news... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2074203 - 11/05/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
:wtf: 



Agreed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074210 - 11/05/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have to disagree. There should be an exception for the life of the mother.

yeah, i'll agree with that. there should be... i haven't read the bill so i don't know, but do you happen to know if it bans the actual procedure or if it just bans very late term abortions?

because for the procedure to take place, the baby is birthed anyway; it's just killed in the process. the mother isn't spared any danger by having her baby's neck severed while she's bearing it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,740
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Re: some good news... [Re: ]
    #2074238 - 11/05/03 07:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I believe you'll find the actual procedure is what is banned.

I don't like abortion but have no wish to see a mother die because she couldn't get one. I feel the only legitimate reason for a third trimester abortion is for the life of the mother. The only legitimate reason for a second is rape, incest or the life (I may have missed some) of the mother. I see no need for restrictions of any kind during the first trimester.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074258 - 11/05/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I believe you'll find the actual procedure is what is banned.

I don't like abortion but have no wish to see a mother die because she couldn't get one. I feel the only legitimate reason for a third trimester abortion is for the life of the mother. The only legitimate reason for a second is rape, incest or the life (I may have missed some) of the mother. I see no need for restrictions of any kind during the first trimester. 




That sounds logical and fair to me. :shocked: :thumbup: 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: some good news... [Re: adrug]
    #2074322 - 11/05/03 08:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What can I say, I'm a fair and logical guy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074331 - 11/05/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What can I say, I'm a fair and logical guy.

see, we agree...about the abortion thing, that is.

:smirk:


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074346 - 11/05/03 08:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that in order for the procedure to even take place, the mother must already be past any possible risks.

it seems as though this procedure is really no different, from the mothers point of view, than a regular birth. it doesn't spare her any danger.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: some good news... [Re: ]
    #2074356 - 11/05/03 08:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm surprised you can think of no circumstances where it might be necessary.

Here's just one.... motor vehicle accident.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074362 - 11/05/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The only legitimate reason for a second is rape, incest or the life (I may have missed some) of the mother.



I would add birth defects to that list, but that's just me.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074377 - 11/05/03 08:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

motor vehicle accident.

i don't follow you...


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: some good news... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2074391 - 11/05/03 08:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Indeed, partial birth abortions were banned, not third trimester abortions.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: some good news... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2074398 - 11/05/03 08:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

The only legitimate reason for a second is rape, incest or the life (I may have missed some) of the mother.



I would add birth defects to that list, but that's just me.



Aha.... I knew I was forgetting something.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,740
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: some good news... [Re: ]
    #2074414 - 11/05/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
motor vehicle accident.

i don't follow you...



A mother in the third trimester is involved in an accident. The strain on her system will not be able to keep both alive. (low blood pressure, massive bleeding) The fetus is not of an age sufficent for living on it's own. I'd have no problem with a partial birth abortion in that case.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,740
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: some good news... [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2074425 - 11/05/03 08:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PsiloKitten said:
Indeed, partial birth abortions were banned, not third trimester abortions.



I'm well aware of that. I was merely staing my thoughts on the time windows for abortion in general.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleshroomophile
ShroomitusFidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 762
Loc: USA
Re: some good news... [Re: ]
    #2110189 - 11/15/03 11:20 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

It's called the band wagon defense.If every one aggrees it must be right.
Every one say's Bush is a Cocksucker so he must be.Hey,don't get mad at me,it's your defense.Oh,and since your so pissed,how many children have you adopted.You know,the children that are born into a poor home,a home with too many children,a home with dying parents.Don't"kid" yourself.When the Government and your neighbor can tell you if you can have a kid or not, can tell you where to work,which god to worship.Hell,they can tell you anything.The only reason i replied is that i believe that even a stupid question deserves an answer.


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Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.


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