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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073426 - 11/05/03 01:48 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldnt really call it a lie. They just borrowed from a previous report beacuse it demonstrated their points the best. After 12 years if it still remains to be the truth then its fine. Now if your saying the actuall content was wrong and a lie then thats a different story.

And i would still remain that their were many reasons to go to war and this was just partial evidence toward one of those reasons.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2073442 - 11/05/03 01:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The information was obviously incorrect...it was from the first gulf war. Alot has happened since then....Iraq has been under constant scrutiny for over a decade...not to mention the obvious fact that not one WMD has been found...or one drop of chemical weapons.

The content of the report may have been valid 12 years ago...but to use it as a pretext for war in the present is wrong. I see nothing debatable about that.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073448 - 11/05/03 01:54 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well beyond reading the entire 4 pages of info taken from the report and showing it to false today i dont see how you can make that claim.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2073460 - 11/05/03 01:59 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

There is a very simple way...how many WMD's have been discovered?

And you are STILL missing the main point...The Blair /Bush administration took Britain / US to war under false pretenses.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (11/05/03 02:00 PM)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073479 - 11/05/03 02:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I dont hold that weather they are found determines if they were there. The UN at least determined how much of each wmd they had and said that to be fact. Saddam needed to provide proof he destroyed all of them and he apparently did not do that.

And what were those false pretenses?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2073487 - 11/05/03 02:07 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Explain to me how you go about proving that something doesn't exist?


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073499 - 11/05/03 02:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It was shown to be there which was believed by the UN. It was never proven to have been destroyed. That is one of the main reasons i believe the US went to war. If they were destroyed secretly or moved out of the country that changes nothing.

As for proving something doesnt exist in most circumstances it cant be done.


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Anonymous

Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Eric]
    #2073523 - 11/05/03 02:17 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I did not write this paper, or post this as an intellectual excersize or to prove whether I was a good writer or not. I'm not a writer.

if you want to just make excuses for why your work lacks accuracy, reason, or even good composition, that fine i suppose. those were just suggestions. if you truly care about being an "activist", you'll understand that your ability to persuade people via written word is rather important. if you cannot make sound arguments and deliver them eloquently, you're going to make a shitty activist.

I'm a political activist, everything I write is going to be politicized, just like everything you read. Anyone that claims their writing is unbiased, is a liar, plain and simple. As soon as a human being sits down and starts typing away, they are speaking from their own perspectives, whether they know it or not.

there are levels to the amount of bias a person writes and thinks with. minimizing it is a good idea.

now... i see that you're new here. stick around man. you'll learn things.

about the tony blair thing. the paper says these words:

according to Tony Blair?s own words, that Saddam Hussein could launch weapons at the UK in ?45 seconds

NOWHERE did he actually say that. his statement said nothing about striking at the united kingdom. bias is undesirable, but when it gets to the point of blatant fabrication, it's far worse.

I'm a communist, but that doesnt mean the facts I posted are less true.

correct. your political orientation has nothing to do with the accuracy of your "facts". they're untrue all on their own.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2073532 - 11/05/03 02:19 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

There really is nothing to debate here...The main reason provided by the U.S. and Britain was that an immediate invasion of Iraq was necessary to eliminate the threat of attack from Iraq with WMD's. As a result the U.N. inspectors were kicked out pre-maturely so that coalition forces could go in...to date, no WMD's have been found.

Maybe the attack was justified for other reasons than those provided, but as it stands..the reasons that were provided for going to war were lies...


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Anonymous

Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Eric]
    #2073535 - 11/05/03 02:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

you're new here and probably haven't been around during previous discussions about communism. i am of the opinion that the rise (and inevitable failure) of communism was perhaps one of the worst human catastrophes in history.

we can start a new thread about this if you'd like... communism threads are always good fun.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2073546 - 11/05/03 02:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Blair didn't lie, he merely made his case using the evidence preseneted to him. The intelligence agencies compiled the dossier not the Government...

And as D33p has said it's simply one point in the entire document, the case for going to war was laid out and parliament backed it.(not hard with a 171 seat majority and the conservatives behind you).

Regardless of the 45 minute claim, the case for war was justified...


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2073577 - 11/05/03 02:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blair didn't lie, he merely made his case using the evidence preseneted to him. The intelligence agencies compiled the dossier not the Government...



True...a little trick called "Plausible Deniability"...but I hold the opinion that he is ultimately responsible for what comes out of his own mouth. When dragging a nation into war you better make damn sure you know why.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073617 - 11/05/03 02:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The intelligence wasn't completley accurate, I dont think it ever is. I don't see how Blair can be blamed...


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2073640 - 11/05/03 02:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

**sigh**...fine...nobody did anything wrong and the world is one big happy place...


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Rono]
    #2073685 - 11/05/03 02:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The intelligence agencies made a mistake and im sure it was investigated. Blair may be a smiling camera friendly twat but he wouldn't take this country to war unless he believed it was the right thing to do. He had nothing to gain except a few grey hairs and a million people protesting in London....


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2073694 - 11/05/03 02:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

a mistake?...are you saying they "accidentally" plagiarized a 12 year old document?


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OfflineEric
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Registered: 12/28/02
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: d33p]
    #2074141 - 11/05/03 05:20 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Of course the dossier was not the sole cause of the war. I did not make that claim at all. It was just another tool of public deception! It was the so called "threat" of weapons of mass destruction that gave legitimacy to this war. But it was not the cause of it at all, for the reasons that the weapons never existed in the first place!

The point of my entire paper was to point out the fraudulent lies that were being told to misled people by the capitalist governments involved, and the real reasons for this war: capitalist profit.

Just a sidenote by the way, I got 88% on this paper, not that it means anything of course.


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OfflineEric
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: ]
    #2074148 - 11/05/03 05:23 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm actually not new here. This name has been active for a year, I just havent posted in a long time.

Correction: I did write this paper., I meant I did not write it as an intellectual excersize.

My information is all accurate. Except for the mistake previously pointed out, none of this is falsified intentionally. That makes a big difference then what the capitalist governments have done. Its disgusting.


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OfflineEric
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: ]
    #2074157 - 11/05/03 05:25 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Stick to the topic. I was talking about the war, not communism.

Save it for another thread.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The Deadly Truth of Imperialism [Re: Eric]
    #2074158 - 11/05/03 05:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)


The point of my entire paper was to point out the fraudulent lies that were being told to misled people by the capitalist governments involved


In case you forgot, communist countries had an extensive history of
lying to their citizens.


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