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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Xlea321]
#2072142 - 11/05/03 01:53 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think the young are very polarized, like never before. Being on the leftcoast, I only came into contact with a handful of young folk that were right wing. And most of them distrusted govt... Corporations, on the other hand, they werent sure of. Probably because they havent hit the job market yet and realized there are no jobs. Things are a changing.. oh goodness, if they reinsitute the draft, just imagine what will happen! Like soccer moms are going to let their little spoiled brats go off and die? NO WAY. Like the slacker generation is going to go get killed? Fuck that, they'll take gta vice city, thank you very much. Powerful things are on the horizon. Fuck the polls and all the old folk that think they know. The under 25 generation is a generation like never before.. and the younger kids, guess who they will be following, as their eyes begin to be opened from MTV? There is definately hope. The young shall lead.
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead
Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Xlea321]
#2072235 - 11/05/03 02:39 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think that as usual, most youths don't really care about politics right now. I'm not sure if I believe that youth is becoming substantially more conservative, but I'm sure it's becoming more polarized... I've heard from a couple places that right now the country is more polarized than it's been in a long time. This really came out because of the Iraq war and all the shouting matches it inevitably caused nation- and world-wide. And Mark, as for those three media you mention, I think one could make a case with those criteria that supports the left to a greater degree than the right.
1) Cable TV-- you got me here... the right definitely outweighs the left in all three of the major 24 hr. news channels, especially FOX, and that can be influential.
On the note of South Park, as a progressive liberal who hates PC, I very much enjoy South Park and always have, but I have a question. What is Trey Parker or Matt Stone who was in Bowling for Colombine? If it was Matt Stone, he apparently has no problem contributing to the work of and conversing with a strong liberal.
2) The Net- I think this serves as a counterbalance even moreso in favor of the left. There are probably hundreds of blogs devoted to pointing out lies of Bush, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and of course, the woman every conservative I have respect for should consider an outrage to their side: Ann Coulter.
3) Books- Political books are huge. However, I think there are more major liberal books released than conservative, and they spend their share of time at the top. Just look at the unbelievable sales of "Stupid White Men," and I'm sure tons of young people bought that, including myself. Just look at the newest nonfiction NYT bestseller list top 3:
1. DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY? by Michael Moore 2. LIES (AND THE LYING LIARS WHO TELL THEM), by Al Franken 3. WHO'S LOOKING OUT FOR YOU? by Bill O'Reilly
Three huge political voices represented here, all releasing books around the same time. The fact that the #1 and 2 books are both from the left shows how much interest they generate.
And I'd like to recommend Franken's book... he's HILARIOUS and I challenge someone to find a lie in his book while he points out the lies of the author of #3 as well as others.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2072319 - 11/05/03 03:58 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The young are becoming less liberal
It's about time but it meshes with what I've said about the dying Democratic party. It's just too bad that for so many years the schools have been heading so many students down a dead end path.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2072324 - 11/05/03 04:06 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm waiting...
...it's all the democrats and libbies and their PC agenda,right?
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: SlapnutRob]
#2072328 - 11/05/03 04:09 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think one of the most amusing things about the neocons these days is that even they've realised they can't sell their lunatic philosophy to the people. When Bush and the crazies were trying to gain support for the Iraq war they all had to avoid saying what they really believed - "We will protect the oil refineries, we will make Iraq safe for corporate investors..". Instead they had to spout bullshine about "freedom" and "the poor and suffering of Iraq" because they know that leftist talk goes over with the public. It must've really stuck in their craws.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Anonymous
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2072643 - 11/05/03 08:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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we can only hope so. it's still fashionable for young people to be liberal... those not too keen on thinking for themselves almost always seem to lean that way without a second thought. hopefully that'll change over the years.
i'm not too happy with what is more and more commonly being called "conservative" nowadays though...
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: SlapnutRob]
#2072957 - 11/05/03 11:13 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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SlapnutRob writes:
The Net- I think this serves as a counterbalance even moreso in favor of the left. There are probably hundreds of blogs devoted to pointing out lies of Bush, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and of course, the woman every conservative I have respect for should consider an outrage to their side: Ann Coulter.
You should read the article I linked. I gave just the very briefest of overviews. Yes there are hundreds of leftist blogs. What counts is how many of them are read -- the "hit" factor.
However, I think there are more major liberal books released than conservative, and they spend their share of time at the top. Just look at the unbelievable sales of "Stupid White Men," and I'm sure tons of young people bought that, including myself. Just look at the newest nonfiction NYT bestseller list top 3: 1. DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY? by Michael Moore 2. LIES (AND THE LYING LIARS WHO TELL THEM), by Al Franken 3. WHO'S LOOKING OUT FOR YOU? by Bill O'Reilly
You have to take the NYT bestseller list with a grain of salt. Book publishers have known for decades that this list is not even close to giving an accurate picture of nationwide book sales -- it is a marketing tool. A much more accurate source is Barnes & Noble or Amazon.
For example, the New York Times had had Shrillary's book on their bestseller list for at least sixteen weeks at the time this observation was made -- (from http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110004133 )
"Living History," Hillary Clinton's memoir, is the No. 10 nonfiction book on the most recent New York Times bestseller list, and it's been on the list for 16 weeks. But here's something odd. The Barnes & Noble Web site has its own list of "Year-to-Date Bestseller"--the "top 100 bestselling books for Barnes & Noble stores and Barnes & Noble.com, for January-September, 2003." Atop the list sits "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," followed by "The Da Vinci Code" and "The South Beach Diet." The list does include political books, including Ann Coulter's "Treason" (No. 41) and Al Franken's "Lies" (No. 42).
But Hillary's book is nowhere to be found. The list only goes to No. 100, so there's no telling where she ranks, but it is below the No. 95 book, which is called--we kid you not--"Captain Underpants and the Big, Bad Battle of the Bionic Booger Boy, Part 1."
Note that at the time that list was published, Coulter's "Treason" was ahead of Franken's "Lies". Even if we do accept the NYT list as an accurate representation of nationwide sales, note that Bill O'Reilly's book was listed number 3.
The author's point is not that political books by non-Liberals are outselling political books by Liberals (although obviously many are) but that they are being published in such numbers and doing so well. Ten years ago you couldn't get a publisher to touch a conservative publisher -- there was no money in it for the publisher. That is not the case today.
If you haven't yet read the article, I suggest you do. Yes, it's long, but it's very interesting.
pinky
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: ]
#2072966 - 11/05/03 11:19 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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The administrators have determined that "cheeseking" was a puppet of SquattingMarmot. The account "cheeseking" has been perma-banned.
pinky
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2072995 - 11/05/03 11:29 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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sheesh...and you even gave him such a warm welcome!
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: afoaf]
#2073287 - 11/05/03 01:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The young are becoming less liberal
If by "less liberal", you mean "more fascist", then I would agree.
(Note: I am not equating conservatism with fascism, nor am I equating liberalism with libertarianism)
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: DoctorJ]
#2073434 - 11/05/03 01:49 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is your definition of the term "fascist"?
Can you give us some idea of which fascist principles (according to your own definition) young people find most appealing?
pinky
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2074932 - 11/05/03 08:48 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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hmmmm... well, I guess I can see how you might think that i misused the term.
Here's my proposition: Fascism takes two parties. The opressor and the opressee. In order to have fascism, you need a shit talker to sell the lie, and a shit eater to buy it.
I tend to hold the opressees just as responsible for fascism as the dictators and fascist governments.
So anyway, I have come to use the term 'fascist' as a word for both a person who makes bad rules and a person who respects bad rules.
In a fascist society, even the proletariat obeys and enforces bad rules. He participates in and facilitates that system, and is just as much to blame as the dictator.
As for the children of today, I think they are way to obedient and unquestioning. And they can be very bigoted in some ways. Thoughts of the junior spy league come to mind. *shudder* They seem to have too much respect for the rules, to the level of downright silliness. Worse yet, they have been programmed by television to be little consuming machines, some wearing designer clothes to school before their 10th birthday.
Not all the kids are like this, but a lot of them are, moreso than previous generations, IMO
You see the youth as conservative. I see the youth as blindly agreeing with and obeying institutionalized authority, which happens to be conservative at the moment. And I would be just as worried if the current administration was liberal, and the youth agred with it without a second thought, or for that matter, a first.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: DoctorJ]
#2075152 - 11/05/03 09:38 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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DoctorJ writes:
So anyway, I have come to use the term 'fascist' as a word for both a person who makes bad rules and a person who respects bad rules.
So you have formed your own unique and idiosyncratic definition of an existing and well-defined word and expect the rest of us to know by ESP that you don't really mean "fascist" when you type it, you mean a "bad-rule-maker-and/or-bad-rule-obeyer". Glad we got that cleared up.
You see the youth as conservative.
No, I don't. Conservatism in youth is still not the norm. However, in the last few years, the young people (under-thirties) I see in my little corner of the world (tourists from Europe, North and South America, Australia, the Caribbean, but not Asia or Africa) as a whole seem less left-leaning than those of the same age I saw here ten years ago.
I see the youth as blindly agreeing with and obeying institutionalized authority, which happens to be conservative at the moment.
Then I guess the young people I meet are different than the ones you do. Almost none I meet would fit that description.
pinky
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2075267 - 11/05/03 10:10 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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As we all do, perhaps you're seeing what you want to see. Just a thought.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Le_Canard]
#2075316 - 11/05/03 10:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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ToiletDuk writes:
As we all do, perhaps you're seeing what you want to see. Just a thought.
And one I have thought of myself. The thing is, ten years ago, I wanted to see young people becoming less liberal. Back then it was more important to me than it is now. Now that I don't really give a damn any more, it is impossible to ignore. For what it's worth, my girlfriend has noticed the same thing.
Again, this is judging only from the young people I (and the gf) meet here. For all I know, the younguns who choose to come here today are less representative than the younguns who chose to come here a decade ago. I don't know why that would be, but I can't rule out the possibility.
pinky
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead
Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Le_Canard]
#2075325 - 11/05/03 10:24 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll try to get around to reading that article, Mark... I don't know if I'm gonna come back to this thread, but let me give one last thought....
Although I would argue that the left is the more open-minded side of the equation (just look at the name conservative... it's about conserving old values, which doesn't include things like rap music or gay people) I am certain that there are those with integrity on both sides of the aisle, and those are the people I want leading this country. I would have given my left nut to have seen McCain vs. Bradley in 2000 rather than Bush vs. Gore. I don't think any real conservative could argue that Bush is a respectable truthful man of integrity (unless they're lying or just being ignorant) and the same goes for the left with Al Gore.
There are those that are full of shit on the left, like Hillary Clinton and there are those that are full of shit on the right like Bill O'Reilly... and there are respectable voices on both sides like Noam Chomsky and Pat Buchanan.
Anyway, even though I hope our youth emerges more liberal, above all I want our youth to emerge knowing and caring for the truth. Nothing good can come from people just not giving a shit.
Too bad we don't have better media in America....
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2075333 - 11/05/03 10:28 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, this is true. But, having gone to High School in the mid to late '80's (I'm sort of dating myself here ) there were lots of kids who were conservative back then as well! I think the same can said today. As someone once said: "There is nothing new under the sun".
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Le_Canard]
#2075348 - 11/05/03 10:34 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: As someone once said: "There is nothing new under the sun".
That someone would be Solomon. Ecclesiastes 1:9
-------------------- "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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angryshroom
Stranger
Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2075470 - 11/05/03 11:07 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its obvious then our young ones are just getting stupid. hehe
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: The young are becoming less liberal [Re: Phred]
#2076831 - 11/06/03 11:34 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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All is not lost!
oh yes. as long as there are young conservatives watching FOX news and South Park and reading Ann Coulter, there is hope!
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