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Offlineforevrgrounded98
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Registered: 10/25/03
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when cloning
    #2072524 - 11/05/03 09:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Is putting the chunk of the inside of the mush on a petri dish the only way to clone? If it is, are there any everyday types of stores that cary petri dishes filled with the solution? I've never seen them or heard of a place to get them. Thanks
-matt


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"If I don't see ya before the end of this one, I'll meet ya in the next one and don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: forevrgrounded98]
    #2072535 - 11/05/03 09:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Search for the Poor Man's Syringe Tek and the Karo Tek.

These are two other ways to clone. Not as precise as agar but still cloning.

Basically, any time you grow mycelia from a chunk of a mushroom, you are cloning that mushroom.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2072549 - 11/05/03 09:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You can use mycelium, too. If you're growing it in bags, you can inject sterile water, mix some mycelium into it, and draw it back with a sterile syringe (using rubbing alcohol, etc.) Just try not to let the water touch the mycelium, or it will absorb it, and you'll be left with very little solution.

This is an easy way, and you don't need a glovebox, or anything, but you really do need to be growing in bags to do this (it's a lot harder to do with jars.)

Basically, you can clone with any live tissue.

--
Micro


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: micro]
    #2072554 - 11/05/03 09:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Micro is right. That is the easiest way to clone, but if you clone your biggest shroom, you should get clones of your biggest shroom. If you clone the mycelia from a multispore inoculation, you'll still get shrooms, but you won't get many of the benefits of cloning.


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OfflineDMJ
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Re: when cloning [Re: micro]
    #2072655 - 11/05/03 10:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

micro said:
You can use mycelium, too. If you're growing it in bags, you can inject sterile water, mix some mycelium into it, and draw it back with a sterile syringe (using rubbing alcohol, etc.) Just try not to let the water touch the mycelium, or it will absorb it, and you'll be left with very little solution.



--
Micro





Could you specify this a little more for me Micro? What do you inject the sterile water into? What do you mix the myc with? The sentences seem to indicate injecting the water into the myc, but in the next sentence, you say don't let it touch the water.
In no way am I doubting what you say, just confused by the way it was said.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: DMJ]
    #2072694 - 11/05/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Search for the poor man's syringe tek DMJ. This is what micro described.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2072718 - 11/05/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineDMJ
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2072760 - 11/05/03 11:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you Cervantes!


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Offlinethisone
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Re: when cloning [Re: DMJ]
    #2072853 - 11/05/03 12:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

So cloning is any live tissue, and an isolate is different because that is from a specific fruit body, or is that selected from sub strains rhizo's selected and picked apart from an agar plate and fruited for particular characteristics? Sorry, I'm a bit confused on this issue.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: thisone]
    #2072868 - 11/05/03 12:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

An isolate is selected sub strains on agar.

Cloning a specific shroom, is like selecting a good fruiting isolate though. It may not be perfect, but you know it works in your growing environment.

They are both forms of cloning, you can only get a pure strain on agar, as I understand it.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2072895 - 11/05/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

1.) Inject sterile water into bag (sterilly -- use rubbing alcohol.) Don't let it touch the mycelium; just let it fall into the bottom corner, holding the mycelium away from it.

2.) Without opening t/ bag, break off a little piece of mycelium and mix it into the water by smooshing it.

3.) Take a sterile syringe (like the one you used for the water if you kept it "sterile") and draw up your mycelium water.

I don't think cloning the biggest mushroom will change anything; the genetics should be the same throughout the mycelium (the mushrooms are all one organism.)

I've heard a lot of people say that, but it seems like a myth. Bigger mushrooms are easier to work with, though, anyway.

--
Micro


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: micro]
    #2072977 - 11/05/03 01:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hmm, I've often wondered about the biggest shroom, definately cloning from good fruiting mycelium is wise.

If you do a multispore inoculation of several jars, cloning from your best cake is wise.


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Offlinethisone
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2073055 - 11/05/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

but isn't the purpose of cloning a fruitbody to gurantee that you have a fruiting strain. I would think that the biggest should be selected because then that fruitbody also has the charcteristics of being a large fruiting strain. Taking a sample from the mycelilum wouldn't ensure it was a fruiting strain would it? What are the benefits of taking a cloned fruitbody or isolating the strain on agar?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: thisone]
    #2073117 - 11/05/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That is what I have heard, but I've not experimented enough to know for sure.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2073249 - 11/05/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It probably has a lot more to do with the distribution of hormones to get big mushrooms or small mushrooms. Genetics certainly plays a part, but the genetics in a mycelium should be the average of the distribution of nuclei in the cells -- one place shouldn't be much different than another.

--
Micro


--------------------
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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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Offlineforevrgrounded98
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Re: when cloning [Re: micro]
    #2073350 - 11/05/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Why wouldn't it work to take a sample of the inside of a stem and instead of mycelium, mash up the inside of the stem and add it with water to suck it up in a syringe? Sorry, if that sounds dumb.
-matt


--------------------
"If I don't see ya before the end of this one, I'll meet ya in the next one and don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: micro]
    #2073997 - 11/05/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

True, but I've wittnessed vastly different looking mycelium from the same spores. If you start from multispore, rather than an isolate, I'd still recomend waiting for fruit, to see which myc is most worth cloning if you start from a multispore innoculation.

I definately see what you mean about the size of the fruit not mattering, they all come from the same myc. I always found that theory a little odd. Hormones make more sense to me. This would be great if you isolated a good strain and grew it on some substrate. You could get your money's worth from the poor mans syringe tek.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: forevrgrounded98]
    #2074007 - 11/05/03 06:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Forever,

You are very close to the correct way to clone a shroom.

If you cut the stem open with a sterile blade, the inside of the stem will be sterile. Take a piece of myc from the inside with your blade and use it with whatever medium you need to grow or inject the mycelia.


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Offlineforevrgrounded98
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Re: when cloning [Re: Rose]
    #2074213 - 11/05/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok, so let me see if i can dumb things down a shade for myself....In a sterile environment, if i took a properly prepared substrate and innoculated it with that sterile bit of mush you were talking about, would it colonize the substrate like an innoculation shot would?


--------------------
"If I don't see ya before the end of this one, I'll meet ya in the next one and don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: when cloning [Re: forevrgrounded98]
    #2074257 - 11/05/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It could... as long as the piece of shroom did not dry out (I learned the hard way... dry=dead). You could soak the piece in h2o2 to hydrate and sterilize it... if that is still simple enough for you :wink:.


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