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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Left/Right
    #2070244 - 11/04/03 05:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Who thinks that dividing political beliefs into left and right has any relevance?


LEFT/RIGHT
YES
NO




Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



--------------------
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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 9 days, 3 hours
Re: Left/Right [Re: GazzBut]
    #2070260 - 11/04/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

To me the whole "left/right" thing just serves as an indicator of what type of person he/she is.  For example if they are right wing orientated, then I can tell that they are self serving, greedy, war mongering baby killers that have no respect for the environment or other cultures.... :wink:


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Left/Right [Re: GazzBut]
    #2070261 - 11/04/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for your vote luv!


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Left/Right [Re: Rono]
    #2070267 - 11/04/03 06:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but plenty of ideas that are supposedly left wing are not so bright! I just keep watching this board and cant help thinking that being left or right is more often than not a shortcut to thinking.


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Always Smi2le


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Left/Right [Re: GazzBut]
    #2070378 - 11/04/03 07:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

exactly.

I'm so tired of the left and right bullshit.

it's right and wrong.

people get too caught up in these cheap
categorizations.

I try to have a conversation with my father
about Bush and he says, "oh you've been up
north for too long".

it's that sort of simplified reasoning that distracts
from the argument.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: GazzBut]
    #2070406 - 11/04/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the lefties usually agree with the lefties and the righties usually agree with the righties. and the two usually don't agree with eachother.

call it cheap categorization, but it's usually pretty accurate.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070415 - 11/04/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Exactly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070439 - 11/04/03 07:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

meh.

I think people with half a brain are
able to address issues on an item
by item basis and not say, "I agree
with this cuz the democrats do".

I see people frequently invoke the
democrat or republican thing to try
and discredit an argument because
of other, unrelated planks in the party's
platform

pick 10 things, I bet luvdem and I
agree at least half the time.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: afoaf]
    #2070448 - 11/04/03 07:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

let's try something:

i'm going to make a poll in another thread. it'll be a political experiment of sorts... hold on a minute.


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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070467 - 11/04/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

nah... i'll just do it in this one.

for each question, there will be 4 possible choices. we'll see how much often the lefties agree with the lefties, the righties agree with the righties, and the two disagree.

if you consider yourself, or other people would probably consider you a lefty, answer one of the first two option. if you'd be considered a righty, answer one of the second two.


Question 1:
left. i am generally in favor of gun control measures
left. i am generally not in favor of gun contol measures
right. i am generally in favor of gun control measures
right. i am generally not in favor of gun contol measures



Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070478 - 11/04/03 07:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)


Question 2
Question 2.
left. i am generally in favor of more environmental protection laws.
left. i am generally not in favor of more environmental protection laws.
right. i am generally in favor of more environmental protection laws.
right. i am generally not in favor of more environmental protection laws.




Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070483 - 11/04/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

oops with that one. nobody answer "question 2", alright???  :thumbup:


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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070504 - 11/04/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)


Question 3.
left. Those in the higher income brackets are too highly taxed.
left. Those in the higher income brackets are not too highly taxed.
right. Those in the higher income brackets are too highly taxed.
right. Those in the higher income brackets are not too highly taxed.





Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070522 - 11/04/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)


Question 4.
left. the government should be involved in redistributing wealth
left. the government should not be involved in redistributing wealth
right. the government should be involved in redistributing wealth
right. the government should not be involved in redistributing wealth




Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Anonymous

Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070552 - 11/04/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

oh what the hell.. this is alot easier:

Political Compass Results


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2070727 - 11/04/03 08:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

heh


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Left/Right [Re: ]
    #2072220 - 11/05/03 04:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

oh what the hell.. this is alot easier




I thought your questions were great mushmaster, and I had a lot of fun answering them.

I don't think the political compass is relevant here, beacause the question is..."is right/left still relevant, or meaningful?" While the political compass assumed it was.

You missed at least one...


Question X
LEFT:Homosexual marriage (with adoption rights)is perfectly OK
LEFT:Homosexual marriage (with adoption rights) is at least slightly less desirable than heterosexual family units
RIGHT:Homosexual marriage (with adoption rights) is perfectly OK
RIGHT:Homosexual marriage (with adoption rights) is at least slightly less desirable than heterosexual family units







Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Left/Right [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2072382 - 11/05/03 07:15 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

In the UK the differences between the left and right have become so blurred as to be irrelevant. Even when labour was a supposedly distinct choice from the tories, I dont believe that it really made a massive difference who was in power. In the UK as in the US you get one vote every 5 or so years to influence the world we live in. Woohoo! Democracy in action...obviously you can get involved at a deeper level but it just isnt possible for the masses to have a real say on any issues other than who gets to decide things for them. We trumpet this great privelige and right that we have...we love our so called democracy when in fact we live in puppet dictatorships. Controlled by media and people who keep their influence regardless of who is voted in every few years. When you vote before you choose a party to vote for you are voting for the system itself. You are saying yes I agree that I only deserve/can be trusted with one vote every 4-5 years. In this day and so called information age that is simply not good enough. We should be able to vote on a whole range of issues, not just which party gets in. The whole left/right arguement seems to serve as a distraction from this charade of democracy.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Left/Right [Re: GazzBut]
    #2072727 - 11/05/03 11:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

As more and more power is granted to governments, the left right labels become meaningless. Both sides are determined to get more government power established to further their own agendas, neither side is very diligent at relinquishing the power it was given by the other. Following the political maneuvers to their logical ends, the common result from both the left and the right is despotism. Freedom puts my faith in none of the above...

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist,
democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative,
and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human
race divides politically into those who want people
to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
-- Robert A. Heinlein,


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Left/Right [Re: Evolving]
    #2072784 - 11/05/03 11:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I agree wholeheartedly but would change Heinlen's quote to read "The human race divides politically into those who are willing to put the good of the collective first and those who are willing to put their own good first at the expense of others."

Now I know people are going to jump on the first part of what im saying but I dont think there is one person on this board who wouldnt be willing to sacrifice a little if it would truly help the collective. What people are opposed to is being taxed heavily to fund social programs without actually seeing any improvement in the situation. The people who are putting their own good first are those who hold the ultimate power in our society. They are putting the good of the smallest of minorities ahead of everyone else. They manage to deflect attention from themselves by making people concentrate on left/right, welfare issues etc when in reality just a slight change in their mindsets would result in massive social change.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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