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Offlinemondeva
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Registered: 11/04/03
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OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate
    #2069857 - 11/04/03 11:06 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hello!

I've been reading the Shroomery forums for months but this is the first time I post. I'm from Spain, so please excuse my English.
Some of the most interesting threads are those about feeding the micellium with tryptamine compounds, in order of getting more potent mushrooms. I've been reading these threads with the hope that someone would post info about some ACTUAL experiment and its results. Sadly, nobody seems to have still done it... at least nobody who posts to the shroomery.
Well, finally I've decided to do it myself. I've ordered 250 mg. of DIPT, as I'd like to get mushrooms with 4-OH-DIPT in them. I thing that is a very interesting substance, so I've chosen it instead of another tryptamine.
I hope I will be able to start the experiment next week. The strain chosen will likely be Ecuador or B+
Meanwhile I will need some help from you more experienced cultivators. These are my questions:

1) ?How much DIPT must I put into every 200 cc jar? My idea is to use about 125 mg. per jar (so 250 mg. = 2 jars) but maybe this is not enough or is too much. Does somebody know the answer?

2) I'm afraid about destroying the DIPT in the sterilization process. I usually pressure cook the jars for 50 minutes to one hour. Will this destroy the DIPT? If so, what must I do? One alternative would be not putting the DIPT into the substrate, but later into the casing mix, but... would this be effective? I mean: will the DIPT be absorved by the micellium the same way that putting it into the substrate?

Well, thanks in advance for your help. Once my doubts are solved and the experiment started (as soon as I receive the DIPT) I will post all the info I can about it.
Regards,

Mondeva



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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2069976 - 11/04/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

heres a link to the Tryptamine Cubenesis in the Info section here at the shroomery... maybe you should start there. Its not the same chemical but it should give u an idea...

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7953

also try a search through the internet and erowid that may turn up something more useful to that particular chem.


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o_(")(")

~nicole


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2071184 - 11/04/03 10:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You should use DPT for that. So you could get 4-OH-DPT.


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Offlinemondeva
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2072253 - 11/05/03 04:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well, my first considerations were about 4-OH-DET, 4-OH-MIPT and 4-OH-DIPT. Finally, I thought the last one was the most interesting one. About 4-OH-DPT... there are not reports about effects in TIHKAL, Erowid or anywere. Is it really interesting? Which are the effects?
Of course, if my experiment works with DIPT I will try with another tryptamines in the future.


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Offlinemondeva
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2072341 - 11/05/03 06:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Seraph:

thanks for your link. It gives me some clues about the amount to use. The FAQ is about tryptamine, but I will assume it will work the same for DIPT (maybe that's assuming too much?). I will likely use 200cc jars with rye (or similar grains) as substrate. It is surprising that my initial estimations of 125 mg./jar are very similar to those in the FAQ.
I am still a little afraid about destroying the DIPT while sterilization. I will keep on searching for info...


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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2072532 - 11/05/03 09:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hmm im prolly the least knowledgable person here when it comes to research chems.. but i did manage to find the melting point
of
DPT: 174.5-178? C (from a research chem supplier)
4-HO-DiPT: 263? C (from www.erowid.org)
5-meo-dipt: 181-182? C

{edit}:just found this on DiPT: 198-199 ?C.. (from another chem supplier)

not sure if their HO is a typo or if its a different chem all together... its been a very long time since chemistry.

but it looks to me like the 4-HO-DiPT would withstand the PC


--------------------
(\(\
( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 09:55 AM)


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2072674 - 11/05/03 10:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the 4-HO-Dipt would withstand the pc, but its not going to convert to that untill the mushies absorb it. While its in the pressure cooker, its still gonna be Dipt. which from your info says it will melt (pressure cookers are around 250 degrees right?). I am wondering if you could make a solution of Dipt in distilled water, and inject it into the cakes after sterilization. worth looking into.

~JSlice~


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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: angryjslice]
    #2072716 - 11/05/03 11:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A PC cooks to 270*F i believe all those above are *C...

I only acknowledged the 4-HO-Dipt would, i understand that DiPT is what will be added... The melting point for that is also listed

the info was not difficult to find. Im sure a conversion wouldnt be that difficult either.

{ edit: in fact google has a built in calculater that will convert C to F. All i typed was '198C to F' and it came back with 198 C = 388 F -- *arent search engines fabulous }


--------------------
(\(\
( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 11:15 AM)


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2072724 - 11/05/03 11:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

goddamn celsius :crazy2:
yeh that sounds like it would work then.  good luck mondeva, keep us updated for sure!

~JSlice~


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Offlinemondeva
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: angryjslice]
    #2072854 - 11/05/03 12:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you, people! I find your posts very useful... my doubts are beginning to dissolve. As it looks theoretically, the DIPT will withstand the pressure cooker high temps. I hope the long time (about 1 hour cooking) won't degrade it somehow.
I must say that I will likely be able to analyze the final product by chromatography and, of course, post the results here.
The DIPT will arrive in few days, wish me luck!



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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2072909 - 11/05/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

this link leads me to believe that the maximum temp inside a PC at 15psi at sealevel is maintained at 250*F There is a chart for different sea levels and corresponding temperatures.

you wont even reach the melting point of DiPT at the highest altitude at the highest psi... highest temp is 259*

how do you suppose the mycelium will turn this into 4-HO-DiPT... I have read the Tryptamine cubenesis tek but i still am confused as to which process the mycelium will use.


--------------------
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( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2072922 - 11/05/03 12:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A pressure cooker @ 15 psi is ~ 121 deg C. That's way below any of the melting points.

I don't think anyone knows what the mushrooms will do to it....

--
Micro


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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Edited by micro (11/05/03 01:00 PM)


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OfflineSeraph
ShroomiN'SeraphiM
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Registered: 06/23/02
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: micro]
    #2072990 - 11/05/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well, according to gartz and who ever else, tryptamine is hydroxylated and methylated to convert it to psilocin.

does it work the same on DiPT to produce 4-HO-DiPT?


--------------------
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( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 01:28 PM)


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Offlinemondeva
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2073074 - 11/05/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well... as Shulgin said, it seems to be that if you put Mickey Mouse into the substrate, the fungi will convert it to 4-OH-Mickey mouse :-)

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml#cz74

Seriously, the hope is that it could work with any tryptamine. Well, soon I will know if it is true :-)


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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: mondeva]
    #2073205 - 11/05/03 02:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

oh thanks for the link... if only i had read farther down the page when i read through it the first time..


so the theory is mushrooms will hydroxylate any tryptamine into something like or very similar to psilocyn. Almost makes it seem like there is a distinct purpose for the chemicals in mushrooms.


--------------------
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o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 02:45 PM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2073226 - 11/05/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think it was Gartz who said that -- he did an experiment with Diethyltryptamine and someone commented that you could probably 5-HO-ylate any tryptamine. DiPT is a much further stretch, though -- we're dealing with a lot longer of a sidechain, instead of 2 ethyl vs. methyl groups....

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: micro]
    #2073346 - 11/05/03 03:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

thats why i was confused... i tried to think back to chemistry to work it out... assuming the mycelium will hydroxylate and methylate any tryptamine. but it didnt work out on paper with 4-ho-dipt i could see what would be methylated. or whatever the proper terminology is...

N,N-Diisopropyltryptamine to -> 4-Hydroxy-N,N-Diisopropyltryptamine
is what is expected but somehow i think what mondeva will end up with something with and ethyl attached to it. unless my memory serves me incorrectly.

What exactly is going to be the purpose of the 4-ho-Dipt anyhow. It is for the chemicals own effects to be added to the trip...


Adding DMT i understand cuz when that is 4-hydroxylated you get
4-HO-DMT which is psilocin.

on that note could one add plant material containing DMT to a substrate and expect increased psilocin yeilds?


--------------------
(\(\
( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 03:49 PM)


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OfflineRassilon
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Seraph]
    #2074207 - 11/05/03 07:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

OK, since I'm a chemistry dumbass, what would one add as a presursor to psilocybin, rather than psilocin? I'd rather boost the psilocybin contents, since it is more stable.

Rassilon


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: Rassilon]
    #2074325 - 11/05/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well, besides tryptamine, I don't know. That boots the psilocin content vs. psiocybin content something rediculous like 2% -> 98%. I don't think anyone knows why; Gartz said it was possibly caused by a lack of phosphate in the culture medium, but I would think inhibition of phosphorylases is more likely, unless that's been precluded by assays or western blots or whatever. Who knows? Maybe some phosphorus compound was oxidizing the mycelium at one point in it's existance? (Streeeeeeeetch)

This would have to be determined, first, before I could answer that, but as of right now, I think only tryptamine and other like compounds have been investigated. It's likely that increasing the potency at all will have this effect, but this could only be determined through more tests.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Edited by micro (11/05/03 08:18 PM)


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OfflineSeraph
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Re: OK, I'm going to do it: DIPT in the substrate [Re: micro]
    #2074382 - 11/05/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well in nature the psilocybin comes from Baeocystin Which is DMT. So i am assuming adding DMT will increase both.

i read about it here. http://www.stainblue.com/ah.html somewhere under figure 6 it states a demethylate derivative of psilocybin where isolated in psilocybe baeocystin... etc etc etc

I only mentioned psilocin b/c it is a closer relative to DMT, and it was specifically mentioned in those experiements..


--------------------
(\(\
( -.-)
o_(")(")

~nicole


Edited by Seraph (11/05/03 08:53 PM)


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