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nimbus8
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Preserving psilocin when drying theory
#20697037 - 10/13/14 12:58 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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As far as I can tell the oxidation of psilocin during the drying process is the main reason for any loss of potency during drying. This oxidation process is accelerated through heating in a food dehydrator.
I have a vacuum chamber and I was thinking wouldn't it be possible to preserve shrooms without any loss of potency whatsoever if they were dried utilizing vacuum? You could then seal the mushrooms using a vacuum sealer to prevent any further oxidation.
Please no comments about how its easier to use a desiccant, I would prefer a serious discussion about this theory and if it sounds plausible i might give it a try.
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twistedty
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: nimbus8]
#20697060 - 10/13/14 01:03 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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i would say its more genetics than drying process bro. not every mushroom is the same so many factors, too many to even get into. much less just the preservation method.
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twistedty
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: twistedty]
#20697063 - 10/13/14 01:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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and are you talking about not drying it and just sealing it fresh in a food saver?
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
Registered: 03/12/12
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: nimbus8]
#20697080 - 10/13/14 01:06 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just a vacuum probably not as you still eventually deal with heat. However there have been multiple reports that freeze drying (which uses a vacuum pump) fresh mushies, then sealing and placing them in a freezer does preserve the potency of fresh. Here's a video of a homemade freeze drying setup,
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Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: nimbus8]
#20697102 - 10/13/14 01:10 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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A vacuum desicator could reduce the oxidation process. In the lab we use a certain bag which oxidises the oxygen to a solid compound, I can't remember the name of the substance, but it can come quite handy when working anaerobically. You could use MgSO4 to aid speed of drying together with the vacuum and the oxidising bag to acchieve minimum oxidisation.
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twistedty
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: StygianKnight]
#20697122 - 10/13/14 01:13 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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hmmm i dunno. my culture i used was potent as tits even after being in hydrator . takes awhile to get a good isolate but once you get one you can grow it repeatedly. are you having potency problems? i think there is going to be some kind of degradation of potency of some sort regardless if you use cold or heat to preserve your fruits.
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bummerhigh
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: twistedty]
#20697408 - 10/13/14 02:26 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I fan dry and throw an electric heater in the mix to finish them off. I figure as long as I get the mushroom to the customer within 3 weeks after harvesting there won't be a significant loss in potency
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motherchimp
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: bummerhigh]
#20698331 - 10/13/14 05:43 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bummerhigh said: I fan dry and throw an electric heater in the mix to finish them off. I figure as long as I get the mushroom to the customer within 3 weeks after harvesting there won't be a significant loss in potency
That sounds like your saying your a drug dealer.
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spacechildo
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: motherchimp]
#20698378 - 10/13/14 05:53 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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get the mushies cracker dry as fast as possible. storage after cracker dry shouldnt affect potency.
customer sounds REAL fuckin sketchy... who the hell pays for mushrooms? and if you say your friends you sound like a shitty friend charging your buddys for shrooms you grew practically for free!
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Kizzle
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: spacechildo]
#20699070 - 10/13/14 08:36 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
As far as I can tell the oxidation of psilocin during the drying process is the main reason for any loss of potency during drying.
Drying increases potency. Eat 5 grams of fresh mushrooms and 5 grams of dried mushroom and tell me which is more potent.
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motherchimp
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699117 - 10/13/14 08:43 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
As far as I can tell the oxidation of psilocin during the drying process is the main reason for any loss of potency during drying.
Drying increases potency. Eat 5 grams of fresh mushrooms and 5 grams of dried mushroom and tell me which is more potent.
Thats science for you
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spacechildo
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699162 - 10/13/14 08:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
As far as I can tell the oxidation of psilocin during the drying process is the main reason for any loss of potency during drying.
Drying increases potency. Eat 5 grams of fresh mushrooms and 5 grams of dried mushroom and tell me which is more potent.
really? I thought the drying process turned -cin into -cybin, and then in your body the -cybin was turned back into -cin.
but 5 grams fresh doesnt equal 5grams dry.. as in its not the same amount of mushrooms.
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Kizzle
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: spacechildo]
#20699295 - 10/13/14 09:14 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
but 5 grams fresh doesnt equal 5grams dry
Which is why it's less potent How could you define amount of mushrooms if not by weight?
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spacechildo
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699307 - 10/13/14 09:16 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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aah.. hehe.
well, you take this handful of mushrooms, and then consider if it'll get you trippier right now when its fresh, or tomorrow after you've dried it.
Quote:
Kizzle said: Drying increases potency.
does it?
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Kizzle
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: spacechildo]
#20699387 - 10/13/14 09:36 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Drying probably doesn't increase the total amount of actives of course. I just don't see any basis to say there's potency loss in the first place. If it's based on the assumption that 10 grams of wet mushroom will turn into 1 gram of dried mushrooms that's not the case, it varies.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
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Posts: 2,717
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: spacechildo]
#20699393 - 10/13/14 09:37 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Amusin confusin.
Potency or the ratio of active to weight is of course more in dry than fresh by, as we know, round about 10 times due to shrooms being ~90% water. Drying doesn't convert psilocin into Psilocybin, the conversion is done by a phosphorylating enzyme in the shroom. Drying does destroy a lot of psilocin, as it's quiet unstable, which is why many report the equivalent of fresh having a more intense/smooth feeling.
What he's asking is how to preserve the psilocin in fresh while gaining the weight reduction (and thus potency increase) that drying provides. Hence why I suggested freeze drying, which will remove the water but does so under cold temperatures preventing heat from destroying the psilocin. Once freeze dried they still must be kept frozen to prevent psilocin degradation but won't turn to mush when thawed like wet-fresh will.
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Sockadin
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699404 - 10/13/14 09:40 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you are having a problem with potency your growing the wrong mushrooms. I seldom experience people say, Hey look at this awesome canopy tub I grew, oh but they weren't potent.
If you really want to expand your mind, eat more.
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spacechildo
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699439 - 10/13/14 09:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Drying probably doesn't increase the total amount of actives of course. I just don't see any basis to say there's potency loss in the first place.
but isnt it true as stygian says that there's an enzyme that starts breaking -cin into -cybin as soon as you harvest the shroom?
and then the body turns cybin into -cin again? so the same handful of mushrooms would give more buzz freshly harvested than it would if you dry it and eat the next day?
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Kizzle
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: StygianKnight]
#20699463 - 10/13/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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But he's making an assumption that drying causes significant psilocin loss when there's no evidence of that nor any objective way to determine it simply by eating them. The key word there being significant. We all know psilocin breaks down over time. What we don't know is exactly how quickly the application of a certain amount of heat will speed up the process. It's looking for a solution to a problem that may not even exist.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
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Posts: 2,717
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: spacechildo]
#20699467 - 10/13/14 09:53 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Conversion happens while the mushroom is alive and starts as soon as it's a primordial. Yes in theory the same handful will give you more of a buzz when fresh than when dried.
Sure we do, there are plenty of papers that document the ease at which psilocin breaks down, including one that found more psilocin in freeze dried shrooms over heat dried.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: Kizzle]
#20699661 - 10/13/14 10:31 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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At what temperature and how long? How much was there to begin with that was lost?
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MyManMichael
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Re: Preserving psilocin when drying theory [Re: motherchimp]
#20699945 - 10/14/14 12:02 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
motherchimp said:
Quote:
bummerhigh said: I fan dry and throw an electric heater in the mix to finish them off. I figure as long as I get the mushroom to the customer within 3 weeks after harvesting there won't be a significant loss in potency
That sounds like your saying your a drug dealer.
CHEEZE IT!!!!! ITS THE FUZZ!!!!!
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