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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
My conspiracy theory
    #2066658 - 11/03/03 01:28 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ok here goes....

I am an American citizen and I wanted to share a conspiracy
theory that I have.

I believe that most of our high-up governmental officials
want to maintain U.S. supremacy(which is quite normal for any
powerful country to attempt to do). So, how does a country
stay powerful? To put it simply: wealth. The country in question
has to have a large military and produce a large economic output.
How does a government get a lot of money in order to "exercise
it's power"? It taxes things.

We currently do not have the technology necessary to make
powerful, convenient, and reliable non-fossil fuel
cars. Therefore, we need oil. Saudi Arabia has the largest
oil reserves in the world. We keep the Saudi royal family in
power and in return they sell us cheap oil.

Because we get such cheap oil, we get much lower prices for gasoline
than the rest of the "Western world". Therefore, the American
government can slip in some taxes on top of the base price for
gasoline.

When you buy a gallon of gas in the U.S., half of the money you
spend on it goes towards taxes. The government makes
BILLIONS every year off of taxing gasoline consumption.

So, the American government is heavily dependent on the revenue
earned from gasoline consumption. If the need for oil were to
disappear, a major source of revenue would dry up and the American
government would go broke or have to seriously curtail its
spending; thus reducing its power. Also, the relative cheapness
of gasoline insures that non-fossil fuel automobiles are not
economically competitive.

So, it is in the government's best interest to insure that America
keeps consuming oil, and the cheapest place to get that oil is
Saudi Arabia.

Because of all of this, we will be using Middle Eastern oil for a
long time.



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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2067805 - 11/03/03 01:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Bingo...oddly enough it also explains the War in Iraq.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2067857 - 11/03/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Because we get such cheap oil, we get much lower prices for gasoline
than the rest of the "Western world".



Actually, oil is a commodity traded on world markets. The U.S. gets it's oil from many sources. Many years ago I worked for Chevron Oil Refinery in El Segundo, CA. At the time they got 0% of their oil from the mideast. When the first Gulf War happened, crude oil prices rose steeply. It is interesting to note that this made it profitable to start pumping oil from wells in central California (wells which were previously idle). Lower crude prices help the world markets and discourage domestic production which is actually politically advantageous for the oil companies vis-a-vis the environmental political lobby. But that's a bit of a tangent, the lower prices Americans pay for their gasoline at the pump are because of lower taxes.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Evolving]
    #2068024 - 11/03/03 03:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The problem is that peak oil has been reached...and there will be more and more demand, for less and less oil....so logic dictates that the more oil rich countries that the U.S. controls the better off it will be.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Rono]
    #2068047 - 11/03/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Logic also dictates that if your are running out of a non-renewable resource that you make plans to wean yourself off of it. Some things that might help: increased telecommuting (this could be encouraged with tax incentives), turning garbage into oil, nuclear energy, harnessing the power of ocean currents, wind generators, etc.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Evolving]
    #2068080 - 11/03/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I agree...and the technology is largely there, but what incentive do the oil companies have right now to initiate the switch to alternate power sources?...not to mention the logistics of switching every vehicle / machine that uses oil derived fuel to alternate fuel?....


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (11/03/03 05:47 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2068093 - 11/03/03 03:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:

We currently do not have the technology necessary to make
powerful, convenient, and reliable non-fossil fuel
cars. Therefore, we need oil.




Wrong. We've had alternate designs to change for years...it's just not economical to do so...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Rono]
    #2068106 - 11/03/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
I agree...and the technology is largely there, but what incentive do the oil companies have right now to initiate the swith to alternate power sources?...not to mention the logistics of switching every vehicle / machine that uses oil derived fuel to alternate fuel?....




That and there is also a powerful underlying mass-cultural attitude that our oil-consumerist lifestyle (both on a societal and individual level) has been very hard-won and is worth fighting to preserve. I dont necessarily agree with it, but the reality still exists.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,285
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2068197 - 11/03/03 04:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Follow the money.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2068305 - 11/03/03 05:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Infact, our fuel efficiency just keeps getting worse and worse. One has to wonder if the above scenario is not atleast part of the picture, why exactly we'd be reverse engineering our technology to the detriment of the average consumer.

I think that the statement of it being not economical is true, but for whom? Not for the consumer, as resources become scarce and prices continue to rise.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2068378 - 11/03/03 07:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The fuel efficiency AVERAGE is getting worse. No-one is reverse engineering anything.

It's quite simple. People (for the most part) want big vehicles. Gas mileage is a secondary concern to comfort and safety.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2068485 - 11/03/03 07:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think you are obviouslty right about the US wanting to maintain a strong military so they can police the rest of the world and stay on top of things.

However, I do not think that the problem is so much the tax levels, but the percentage of the tax revenue that the US puts toward military spending. Many other first and second world countries have higher taxes than the US - Canada, many parts of Europe, the Netherlands...

Its just that these countries choose to put their tax money towards other social programs such as public school and health care, which are failing enormously in the US.

You have in fact pointed out an interesting trend in politics. generally, the more "left" governments want to raise taxes and provide more public services wheras the "right" governments want to lower taxes and cut public services. This is generally true except for one area: the military.

The US is the prime example of this. I think that people would be less pissed off about the tax thing if the US governmnent spent less on the military (they would have to first develope good relationships with the rest of the world to do this) and spent more on public education and health care. People would see their money come back to them personally through these services.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2068502 - 11/03/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


We currently do not have the technology necessary to make
powerful, convenient, and reliable non-fossil fuel
cars. Therefore, we need oil.


Wrong. We've had alternate designs to change for years...it's just not economical to do so...


Let me rephrase that...the current designs for alternative energy
cars can't compete with the convenience and price of fossil
fuel cars.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: Evolving]
    #2068511 - 11/03/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


the lower prices Americans pay for their gasoline at the pump are because of lower taxes.


Really? European gas prices are twice what they are in America.
Do European governments really tax their citizens that much?
It was my assumption that we got oil cheaper than a lot of
other people. It is quite possible that my assumption was wrong.

As I said this was more of a conspiracy theory than a well-reasoned
hypothesis with ample proof.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: My conspiracy theory [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2068520 - 11/03/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

RandalFlagg writes:

Do European governments really tax their citizens that much?

Yes.

pinky


--------------------


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