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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us?
    #2065541 - 11/02/03 05:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I've never used shrooms but when I smoke weed I often get an unsettling feeling that I have seen too much of the universe, that maybe higher planes of reality are too much for humans to handle. I think this is why so many buy into this relativism philosophy, they are too afraid to confront absolutes.
Anyways, do you think that pehaps drugs like shrooms or LSD show us things we were never meant to see, and perhaps are better off not seeing? Do they open a door to a more serene, spiritual and purposeful existance, or a more dissalusioned nihilistic one? Thoughts?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (11/02/03 06:05 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2065558 - 11/02/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I went into the kitchen and saw a new toaster and this guy who was there was like "You weren't supposed to see that toaster" and I was all "wtf?" and then the guy disapeared and I went over to look at the toaster closely and it was just a regular toaster.

It doesn't really matter if you see some crazy colorful patterns or not.

Some people who have used psychedelics are like "it changed my life for the better, I now know how the world is connect and it's all love" and some of them are like "I'm never doing acid again, I totally freaked out and kicked my mom in the face, I'll never be the same again".

It's a drug, it does some wild brain stuff, some people get a kick out of it, some people get a bad kick out of it, the end.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2065567 - 11/02/03 06:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I would not say that we are not "meant" to see these things, only that it may not be natural for our level of consciousness to see them.

Do they open doors? Yes, definately. Huxley had it right.

However the doors they open do not lead to any given meaning. Meaning does not exist outside of consciousness in the first place, so any meaning given to the psychedelic experience is put there by you and not the drug or what the drug showed you.

Psychedelics make things possible, but what exactly comes of this is entirely up to you.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: trendal]
    #2065592 - 11/02/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Meaning aside, if we can get past our own personal hangups, are we better with these doors opened or left closed?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (11/02/03 06:26 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2065613 - 11/02/03 06:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think open is best.

I read in the paper a few months back about how they were finding that the same sort of brain variables that cause a person to be genius also cause a person to be insane. They thought what was happening was that BOTH insane people and genius' filter out FAR less than the "average" person. This extra information either allows you to be a genius, or if you can't handle it you go insane.

Again, the outcome depends on you.

With the knowledge I have now, I definately feel that the risk was/is worth it: the risk of getting something bad from drugs over getting something good.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinestart25
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2065752 - 11/02/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's different for everyone. If you gave me a book about Quantum Mechanics, I could read it ten times but I still would not understand it. Eventually, I would probably get flustered, forget about it and move on . But for someone that can pick up on it, it could (will) change their entire view of the universe. I think drugs are the same, they are just a tool, or another means of learning that everyone will react to differently.


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Offlinesuperblingtheory
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: start25]
    #2066285 - 11/02/03 10:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

To use "meant to show us" is to similarly intend that (someone) HAS the intentiion of showing you- which would mean that to believe that you are meant to be shown something- you would have to believe that there is a guiding force showing these things to you.  These things walk happilly together.  So the person confronting this issue must also confront the issue of believing in higher powers- and furthermore- governing powers.  Self government would intend that YOU are showing yourself messsages.  Do you believe that drugs are higher powers- because the question (in the way that you posted it) would specify that since drugs are showing you things, - you believe (through your adopted useage of language)- that drugs are higher powers.  Yoou pose a mean cool question dividedsky!  :thumbup:


--------------------

Guts and danger, Airborne Ranger...


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: superblingtheory]
    #2066328 - 11/02/03 11:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thoughts. View only what you want to see. If you have never had any bad experiences in your life or bad thoughts, which few of us can not relate to, then do not do high doses of any drug. I think that if you gradually increase the dosage of mushrooms you will be ok. What some people do is read stuff online then aim for that lvl 5 mushroom trip. Start low, create your reality. Go to a higher dose, build on your existing reality. If you are one who uses words to bring up images, then try to bring up images without using words. If you are one who brings up images first... you are better then most of us.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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Offlinesuperblingtheory
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Droz]
    #2066336 - 11/02/03 11:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Sound advice from any mouth.


--------------------

Guts and danger, Airborne Ranger...


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2066519 - 11/03/03 12:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

to me, it's not so much what the drugs show you that count, rather it's how you react that counts. you get to see how you are, and what has what affect on you... but thats my belief :-)


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: entiformatie]
    #2066841 - 11/03/03 02:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I've never felt like I was 'seeing' anything that should be forbidden to me...On the contrary, I feel like it helps me give me perspective, allows me to feel the unmeasurable connections that exist between all of us, and shows me that the world can be a beautiful or an ugly place, depending on what you make of it.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: entiformatie]
    #2066879 - 11/03/03 02:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How you react to the alteration of perception has a great deal to do with what exactly you'll "see" or have revealed. If you cower in fear at the comeup you're not likely to "be shown" the same things as if you embraced the experience and let go into it. Our habitual reactions and assumptions play a significant role in what we learn and understand from the use of psychedelics. Of course the same goes for any type of mystical seeking.

I'm not worried that I'm not "meant" to explore the realms of entheogens. I believe it's my right and my role in existing to experience what I'm drawn to, to let go into it and to be altered by it. Being drawn strongly to partake in the psychedelic experience is meaning enough to take them. What I take from such experiences is up to me.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2066950 - 11/03/03 03:25 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I guess I have some worry that more awareness will show me that all existance is a complete void and that what I take from the experience doesn't really matter because nothing exists anyway. I wonder what if I open my eyes to see the world, but find there never was any world to see? It would be pretty difficult living the rest of my life knowing it was all a sham.

I hope this isn't redundant. I was stoned off my ass yesterday and I was contemplating my own anxiety in light of what Duke said at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, that acid seekers were not prepared for the grim realities that awaited them because of the naive assumption that 'someone or something was tending the light at the end of the tunnel'. Sorry for the long sentence. After this I thought a bit about that Nine Inch Nails song where he says "Don't open your eyes/the devils of truth still the souls of the free." Make sense? Is the truth too much for our little existances?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2067031 - 11/03/03 03:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

So you're afraid of being shoved into nihilism then? I'm not too fond of Nihilism myself, but IMHO it's absolutely not the highest truth. I find that most nihilists have come to it by an ego response to what may have been a genuine "idea" in the beginning. If you fear nihilism, then reject it. Psychedelics don't force you to believe anything that you don't want to believe. They can open doors, but the interpretation is up to you.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2067217 - 11/03/03 05:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We don't have any clue what we are meant to do, so it is best in my mind to assume that we are not meant to do or be anything. Just stay healthy, because you'll enjoy life more that way.


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2067220 - 11/03/03 05:33 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Forget drugs 'showing' you things or 'opening doors' .. fuck all that metaphorical shit for a second and actually realise what it is that changes when you trip: chemicals foreign to the brain are introduced which alter your experience - the key word here is experience; the more you experience, the better you are at what you've experienced - practice makes perfect, right?
By going to school you experience what it is you're learning and apply that to whatever career you wish to do. Flip the script and look at drugs - you're experiencing life - a career in reality, drugs give you a different (back to the metaphorical) camera to look through - when moving a cube in 3d space, with a 2d perspective you can't determine where you've placed the cube on the z-axis.

If you wanted to observe reality in a way unique to anything ever invented, drugs make that possible. How you apply that to whatever it is you wish to accomplish is ultimately up to you. Just remember - drugs don't SHOW you anything or TEACH you things, they just adjust your wetware to output a different display in that internal monitor known as your conciousness.

There's millions of metaphors to explain the drug experience, in fact that's all there can be... without experiencing it for yourself you can't truly comprehend the complexity of that which is all.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: nubious]
    #2067252 - 11/03/03 06:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yes, right on.
Don't deny yourself. Everybody human knows next to nothing, compared to all that there is that can be known. Don't assume your moral code, and beliefs, and general ideas of what life and reality is, are anywhere near valid, or meaningful. We're specks of thought, we think and think with limited senses and reasoning abilities. Everything you know could be a moronic and totally wrong picture of the universe and what it is and what it does. It's just that we're so limited in our ability to interpret, that we are overwhelmed by our own senses and conclude that what we see and think and otherwise sense and realize is what actually exists. It the meanwhile our entire lives could be more meaningless and utterly naive than is even comprehensible by the human mind.

I love thinking though! ha ha ha


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #2067351 - 11/03/03 08:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"the key word here is experience"

Yeah I agree there, like i think the main use of DMT should be not to see all the alien worlds and weird creatures, but to get use to the experience of dieing. So when death does finaly happen it wont be as painfull and the whole death/rebirth can be controlled alot better.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: EvilGir]
    #2067404 - 11/03/03 09:06 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That's interesting, but wouldn't you agree that you don't know what happens when you die? First hand? It could be a freakin halloween party all the time, with all the new dead folks, for all we know.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Are we meant to see the things that drugs show us? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #2067667 - 11/03/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

True but it will be one hell of a party


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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