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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2065086 - 11/02/03 03:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Now there is a conspiracy Psilokitten... considering most of the hijackers and Bin Laden himself are from Saudi Arabia. Oh and let us not forget Bush and Cheney's connections to big oil.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleEdame
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065092 - 11/02/03 03:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This is going off on a tangent, there's nothing wrong with us looking at this in different ways.

I don't really see how I can clarify what seems pretty clear already to me, but I'll give it a go.

The operative words here for me are "helped cause". I don't think he implied that America's support of Israel alone caused 9/11, just that it was one of many factors involved. I think ti's really reaching to assume that Psylo actually meant "Had America not supported Israel, the WTC would still be standing." because to me that would imply that it was the only cause of the attacks.

I'm not saying that you're 'wrong', I'm just looking at it from a different perspective.


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Edame]
    #2065267 - 11/02/03 04:07 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Edame, I understand you are looking at it from a different perspective than me. Most people looked at it from a different perspective.

I lived less than a mile away from the WTC when it fell. I saw it with my own eyes. Watching 3,000 people die fucks with you. I had to go outside to see it with my own eyes because it didn't seem real if I just looked through a window.

I have trouble blaming anybody but the fuckers that hijacked those planes (It is ok for me to flame hijackers isn't it?).

I have a particular problem with Zahid's article. I find it funny that his article hinges around FIVE Isralei kids. A woman called the cops on them because she saw five kids who she thought were ARAB TERRORISTS. Hundreds of such calls were made on 9-11. These 5 were the only Israleis I know of.

Now Edame, as for going off on a tangent, I have no problem with that, it is obvious Zahid isn't offering any oppinions in his thread.

You think America's support for Israel "Helped cause" 9-11. I guess that is true, in a sense, but it is a great oversimplification of the facts. America's ties to Saudi Arabia have MUCH more to do with the attacks. America's first WAR on Iraq had more to do with 9-11 still.

Muslims around the Middle East were pissed at the Saudis for allowing Non-Muslim, American soldiers on to their most holy soil. They were especially upset at the fact Americans sent women to protect their holy land.

Many Saudis fealt, and still feel that way as well.

Here is another FACT. The design of the WTC was made by a Japanese architect who was fascinated by Middle Eastern Architecture. In fact, he designed Saudi Arabia's airport and other famous Saudi buildings. You can see middle Eastern influences all through the WTC blueprints.


Arabian style archwork.


Looking up below the arches.

He based his design of the World Trade Center courtyard on Mecca itself... the Kabul in particular. He wanted a huge open space between buildings with a black statue in the middle. He wanted to inspire people to walk in a circular motion... always moving towards the center.


Kaaba, Mecca


WTC Courtyard, NYC

The WTC was based on Mecca but the WTC was, basically, the world's largest shopping mall.

Bin Laden couldn't stand this. How dare Americans build a Commerialistic Mecca? Because thw WTC architect was well known in Saudi Arabia, the WTC held greater importance to Saudis than it did to Americans.

Trust me, most Arab tourists stayed in the WTC hotels. I saw them. The WTC was the only public place in NYC I've seen that had writing in Arabic for the vast amount of tourists. Hundreds of Muslims, most of them Pakistani, lost heir lives in the 9-11 attacks.

Bin Laden wanted to make a point to the Saudis AND Americans. If he just wanted to strike at white America, he would have attacked The Empire State Building instead. The Empire State Building is the most famous American Skyscraper.

Instead, he attacked the WORLD TRADE Center. This was done intentionally. Remember, the WTC was attacked twice. Once in 1993... the intent that time, like it was on 9-11, was to bring the building down.

I have heard a lot of speculation that Israel was responsible for 9-11... all from Muslim sources! That is hardly coincidental. The conspiracy theories vary but they always involve Israel. We get it. Muslims don't like Israelis. That is hardly a reason to attack innocent American office workers.

I wish I knew where Zahid got his article.

Here's a link that talks about why Bin Laden chose to attack the WTC. It has some great information on the original architect of the WTC as well.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2060207

One of the photos is mine, the others are uncredited and pulled from the web. The photo of the WTC Courtyard can be found if you follow the link provided above.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinelysergic
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065281 - 11/02/03 04:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think that, like every action, their was a causal effect. The causal effect here was Wahhabism (offical, state sanctioned hatred of the Jews and the USA) and the fact that the US is supporting a democratic nation in a land barren of caring, compassion, or freedoms. To state that the US, acting in a capacity of morality, "caused" these actions is somewhat right. However,to FAULT us for this, is quite incorrect.

If a girl went to a party wearing a short skirt, and was raped, was that her fault? No, it was the fault of the men who actually commited the crime.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065289 - 11/02/03 04:21 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You think America's support for Israel "Helped cause" 9-11. That is true, in a sense, but it is a great oversimplification of the facts. America's ties to Saudi Arabia have MUCH more to do with the attacks. America's first WAR on Iraq had more to do with 9-11 still.

Let's just clarify that point, I didn't say that, Zahid did. I said that I agreed that America's foreign policy was a factor.



--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Edame]
    #2065291 - 11/02/03 04:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

It's quite obvious that TheJews are behind this, just like TheJews that control the banks, the media, and the thought control devices put in our heads by the CIA/MOSSAD control every other event in teh world.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Edame]
    #2065308 - 11/02/03 04:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
You think America's support for Israel "Helped cause" 9-11. That is true, in a sense, but it is a great oversimplification of the facts. America's ties to Saudi Arabia have MUCH more to do with the attacks. America's first WAR on Iraq had more to do with 9-11 still.

Let's just clarify that point, I didn't say that, Zahid did.  I said that I agreed that America's foreign policy was a factor.

 




Psylocybeingzz said it.

Zahid hasn't said anything in this thread.

You ran with the quote after it was said.

I am trying to set you straight.

End of recap.  :smirk:


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleEdame
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065334 - 11/02/03 04:38 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

My bad, that's who I meant. I still stand by my point though, I told you how I interpreted the quote, not that I agreed with it.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Edame]
    #2065346 - 11/02/03 04:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Then move on Edame, I already told you I understood what you meant. You said we are entitled to our own opinions. I agree.

I just like to back my opinions up with pictures and links.

Really, no hard feelings.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleEdame
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065378 - 11/02/03 04:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm trying to move on but you seem to be addressing me with rebuttals to Zahid and Psylocybeingzz 's arguements.

I said that I didn't think anyone in this thread was trying to blame Israel for 9/11, that's it, that's all I wanted to say.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Edame]
    #2065414 - 11/02/03 05:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

OK, if you want to continue a little while longer Edame, we can. I have passion about this subject and anytime I see something that smells of misinformation, I want to defend it. I'm sure I would be more neutral on this topic if it were not for my proximity to the event.

The only reason I have addressed you with Psilo and Zahid is this: the one link you did provide was in defense of Zahid's post. I have no problem with that. You didn't clarify your position when you posted the link though. You only did that later in the thread.

Here's the link you posted:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/911mossad.html

Here's what you said:
"You may find this link useful Zahid, it outlines some details from the article you mentioned, and a lot of other pieces of information that you might find interesting (all with article links too)."

I think you can see why I made the assumption I did. But, you and I know what happens when I assume. I make an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME".

Re-read my last post if you really think I was still rebuting.

My words may have been harsh (I take this subject personally... so do my Israeli friends) but I wasn't arguing.

I know, it is easy for some people to blame 9-11 on a conspiracy (notice Edame, I didn't name you  :tongue:). I didn't believe it was happening and I was there. Three month of smelling that pile of rubble burn, helped drive it home. It did happen. Planes were hijacked. There is still a 16 acre hole in the middle of Downtown Manhattan.

Back to Zahid,

If the Israelis are to blame, why not blame the Palestinians for INVITING the Jews to move to their land during WWII. It wasn't very long ago, when Arabs were a sort of Jewish ally. Jews moved to Israel because it was the ONE place where they weren't persecuted... until they were given their own country.

What's more, Palastine has NEVER been a country. It wasn't a country when the Jews chose to move there. It isn't now.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (11/02/03 05:28 PM)


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065459 - 11/02/03 05:26 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Psst... you guys are on the same side.

Save your energy for arguing with the bad guys :smile:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2065461 - 11/02/03 05:26 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

It has been a slow day PsiloKitten. I've had to take my arguments where I can find them.  :smirk:


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: Rose]
    #2065469 - 11/02/03 05:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Heh.

You could go fight with some people at freerepublic.com if you wanna vent. ;-)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2065472 - 11/02/03 05:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PsiloKitten said:
Psst... you guys are on the same side.

Save your energy for arguing with the bad guys :smile: 



This is exactly the kind of partisanship that I hate.  Liberals should be able to debate among themselves, as should conservatives, because that's how we learn from one another.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2065481 - 11/02/03 05:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

That's great.. but what about when you are debating the same thing, but thinking you are debating two different things because your emotions are hyped up? Have you read the thread, or just popped off?

That's the kind of emotional baggage I hate, when people bitch just to hear themselves speak.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2065486 - 11/02/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Even if they're debating the same thing, it's a good thing to point out logical fallacies and whatnot in the other person's argument because it helps them to sharpen that argument.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2065487 - 11/02/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

In fact, and I'm still pretty new to The Shroomery, I respect people who hold different views than my own. I have learned a lot from arguments. Even though I may appear to be fighting, I know I am arguing. Notice the lack of flames... well, I flamed those fucking hijackers but that's water under the bridge.

Without the "Bad guys" we'd have no discussion.

Debate is a fundamental part of Political Discussion.

Please, don't mistake my debate for negativity... and PLEASE, please don't make me go to freepublic.com.  :eyemouth: 


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (11/02/03 05:37 PM)


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2065491 - 11/02/03 05:38 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Neither you, nor cervantes seem to have read Edame's posts. It's flabbergasting.
Im not mistaking your debate for anything. You obviously have really strong emotions about this, they just seem to be a bit misplaced in this instance, and the thing is, nobody is arguing with you and you seemed to be putting words in someone's mouth. That's cool, do what ever you want. I was just trying to give you a little tip so that maybe you would take a breath and read what was being said.

As for silver, this is a typical remark by him, Id pretty much guarantee he hadnt read the whole thread. Typical skim job. But he is definately entitled to his misinterpretation.

Hint, I wasnt saying you are on the same side because you are LIBERALS.

*edited to expound


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: 9/11 ? The Israeli Connection [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2065515 - 11/02/03 05:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PsiloKitten said:
Neither you, nor cervantes seem to have read Edame's posts. It's flabbergasting.

Okay guys, whatever.

Hint, I wasnt saying you are on the same side because you are LIBERALS.




Now, THAT'S argumentative.

Thanks for playing Psilo.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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