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Crazy5150760
Student

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 45
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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how much spawn to bulk is to much
#20622974 - 09/26/14 07:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is a 1/1 spawn/bulk mix to much? Ive searching and cant find much. Idk if i just dont see it... But i judt set up two 50qt tubs that use 11qts . I used 5qt spawn to 6 qts bulk (coco /verm). Id thst overkill? Is it bad? What ratio do you use in ur tub?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Crazy5150760]
#20623177 - 09/26/14 08:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You'll be fine with that. Should give a strong yield thru multiple flushes, just be sure to re-hydrate between flushes.
The greater the nutrition-to-volume ratio, the more likely you are to experience a fruiting delay (may be slight), and the more you could benefit from a casing layer (even need them for ideal results, as is in some mixes/cultures)
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Bumbaclotjohnson
Sequoia Farmer



Registered: 01/12/14
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Violet]
#20625162 - 09/27/14 10:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: The greater the nutrition-to-volume ratio, the more likely you are to experience a fruiting delay (may be slight), and the more you could benefit from a casing layer (even need them for ideal results, as is in some mixes/cultures)
Elaborate please
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
Bumbaclotjohnson said:
Quote:
Violet said: The greater the nutrition-to-volume ratio, the more likely you are to experience a fruiting delay (may be slight), and the more you could benefit from a casing layer (even need them for ideal results, as is in some mixes/cultures)
Elaborate please
the mycelium will take some time to consolidate the nutrients.
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gregg
Stranger


Registered: 05/24/14
Posts: 227
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: bodhisatta]
#20625362 - 09/27/14 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you would be safe using even less spawn. I use about 1/3 ratio and I've even done 1/5.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: gregg] 1
#20625423 - 09/27/14 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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he's asking how much is too much though. most people use less than 1:1
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gregg
Stranger


Registered: 05/24/14
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: bodhisatta]
#20625461 - 09/27/14 11:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What would be the purpose of using more spawn? Just curious Not trying to be rude, just want to learn myself. In my mind it would be better to use that extra grain the spawn another tub. To get more "bang for your buck" Thoughts?
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: gregg]
#20625479 - 09/27/14 11:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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More spawn means quicker colonization and more available nutrients, although half of the grain nutrients would likely be used.
1:1 is fine but take into consideration the size of the tub or tray you are making. A 1:1 with one quart is much different than a 1:1 with 20 quarts. With that much spawn your mycelium will likely essentially cook itself from the heat produced by the metabolic process.
I see temp issues when using anything beyond 10-12qts at a 1:1.5
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gregg
Stranger


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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Ghatti]
#20625491 - 09/27/14 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ghatti said: More spawn means quicker colonization and more available nutrients, although half of the grain nutrients would likely be used.
1:1 is fine but take into consideration the size of the tub or tray you are making. A 1:1 with one quart is much different than a 1:1 with 20 quarts. With that much spawn your mycelium will likely essentially cook itself from the heat produced by the metabolic process.
I see temp issues when using anything beyond 10-12qts at a 1:1.5
thank you ghatti
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
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Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: gregg]
#20626822 - 09/27/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Use as much grain as you want. Many people fruit from straight rye or WBS.
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bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.
These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: 36fuckin5]
#20626939 - 09/27/14 05:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im glad you asked this question cause I waa wondering it myself.
Im doing 1 to 2 on a tub right now.
^ true that, I've had GREAT trays fruiting off straight cased rye
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: mushpunx]
#20626982 - 09/27/14 05:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Casing straight grains and spawning and making mycelium expand rapidly are 2 different things.
We say don't incubate because the temp in a jar is likely 1 or 2 degrees higher than the ambient temp. Go do a 1:1 with 12qts spawn and tell me your tub doesn't sit near 90 deg in a 72deg house.
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Stevea1013



Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 108
Loc: New york
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Ghatti]
#20627495 - 09/27/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ready for casing layer? Or wait a day or 2?
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Crazy5150760
Student

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 45
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Stevea1013]
#20628262 - 09/27/14 10:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry for the lack of a response my pain meds have me jacked up since i had surgery on my hand. Ok so i understand is being said. My reasoning to having a high ratio was so it would colonize faster and Fuller then my last test grow. I guess i can see it being overkill. Ill do less next time. They are kept in s grow room kept at 68-73 degrees so that helps some.
Sorry for lack of pics untill i get home to computer
the 2 tubs have been sitting for 5 days now . One tub is futher along then the other right now, i think thats the z , but . I mixxed up which was which but one is pink Buffalo the other was "z" strain. i also had an extra spawn jar that had ONE green grain and extra bulk sub so put it in a 5 gal bucket and was going to put in small tub /shoe box. And forgot now its pretty colonized all white. Ill show pic when u get home.. I dont have holes in the bucket. Lol what should i do.
do i need to put a casing layer in this bucket?
I also just remembered i forgot to ad gypsum to the coco/verm mix. Is that bad? Alsi thanks for thehhp and sorry for spelling hard to type all that with my left thumb
Edited by Crazy5150760 (09/28/14 02:55 AM)
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Crazy5150760]
#20629665 - 09/28/14 07:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I did a high spawn tub recently and it colonized WICKED fast, I think its kinda worth the extra quart or two.
When you fruit the bucket it needs FAE and light, I guess if you dont need the bucket you could drill holes and polyfill like a tub, put a plexiglass window in the lid.
Or do plexiglass lid and crack it open a little if you dont let it dry out and keep up with misting
Gypsum is optional. From what I understand its good to have, but you dont NEED it
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Ghatti]
#20629703 - 09/28/14 07:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ghatti said:
We say don't incubate because the temp in a jar is likely 1 or 2 degrees higher than the ambient temp. Go do a 1:1 with 12qts spawn and tell me your tub doesn't sit near 90 deg in a 72deg house.
it's fine dude. People used to make whole swimming pool sized outdoor grows with plenty of spawn, not only that the ambient temperatures in the places cubes grow wild is often well above 90F during the times they fruit. it won't cook itself they can take up to 100+F at the spawning/fruiting stage you just don't want them to colonize at that temperature.
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: bodhisatta]
#20629717 - 09/28/14 08:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Then why do commercial farms, Rogers old one included, make it a point to lower and control temps during spawn run for species that can take additional heat?
It's common practice from what I understand to lower temps 5-10 degrees or whatever to compensate for the extra heat production during spawn run?
Also I don't understand why you don't want the additional heat when colonizing in a jar but the extra heat is fine when colonizing in a another sealed vehicle like a tub.
Edited by Ghatti (09/28/14 08:06 AM)
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Ghatti]
#20629739 - 09/28/14 08:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would think the jars are better insulators than a tub?
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: mushpunx]
#20629745 - 09/28/14 08:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would agree to an extent but jars you're looking at 1-3 degree jump per jar. Tubs and beds can rise much higher and quicker than that due to the larger mass. So I would reckon its somewhat the same really.
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iwannabemro
TOO MUCH FUN!!!



Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: how much spawn to bulk is to much [Re: Ghatti]
#20629841 - 09/28/14 09:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your talking about exponential growth of temp. I get the a jar will be a few degrees warmer during colonization. But it not 1= 3 degrees, 1+1= 6 degrees, 1+1+1= 9 degrees so on and so forth. Obviously a larger mass is going to be a little warmer, but it's not going to be warmer per jar of spawn of used.
To op more spawn just speed up colonization, also give you better nutrition for 2nd 3rd 4th flushes
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