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OfflineSpinScratch
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Agar isolation and Senescance
    #20619796 - 09/25/14 10:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Im doing research and I have a few clarifying questions that hopefully haven't been asked 1000 times.

When doing agar teks for the purpose of isolating from a tissue sample. Do I need to consider how many g2g transfers were done to arrive at that mushroom. For example if I fruited spawn from a 3rd g2g transfer from spores, would I have issues with senescence if I took a clone from that batch? Also... I would probably also be doing a number of g2g transfers with the resulting isolate, would I run into issues? Whats the word on this?

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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: SpinScratch]
    #20620107 - 09/25/14 11:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's a good question. It definitely can be an issue, because I know that people have run into that issue when cloning store bought mushrooms. Where the line actually is, though, I don't know exactly. I don't clone fruits, and I've never taken G2G past three expansions.

Here's a quote from RR that touches on your situation.

Quote:

As for grain to grain transfers, I use large spawn bags with six quarts of rye in each one.  I make five G2G transfers before spawning to bulk, and senescence isn't a problem.

However, doing a series of grain to grain transfers before cloning the fruit you want, gets you down that road, and isn't recommended.  When you isolate strains, always save the master cultures in refrigeration, and have them well marked.  Once you see which strains fruit best, you don't clone fruits, but rather pull the original cultures out, and you now have P5 to P6 to grow essentially forever if you store it properly on master slants.
RR




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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: SpinScratch]
    #20620110 - 09/25/14 11:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yes you must take that into considration which is often why i tell people grocery store cloning isn't the best route it would be easier to get spores(or order a culture), these things have went like 5 rounds of g2g and spawned at 1:10 so they dont' have a whole lot of life to bring to the table so the younger the better!


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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: cronicr]
    #20620111 - 09/25/14 11:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

or what bach said:lol:


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: Bacchus]
    #20620120 - 09/25/14 11:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Most commercial strains have been grown out over many many "generations" through trial and error and they know how many they can get away with (alot) so when you get them in the store, yes they've been stretched to capacity.


Doing g2g and agar isolations you are VERY unlikely to notice much if any difference in performance. Especially if you aren't at a monoculture yet. But that being said cloning from a 3rd flush or a later flush isn't recommended, then adding g2g on top of it only gives you a head start towards problems.

But imo you won't see any issues unless you try to take that clone and do 20 g2g iterations with it.

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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: Ghatti]
    #20620189 - 09/26/14 12:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm thinking of cloning some shiitake and some oyster mushrooms from the store I work at. We source really good stuff. For the most part local, grown entirely organically and with the utmost care. We get our button and portabello mushrooms from a very large commercial farm, but the shiitakes and oysters are locally grown. It seems to me that shiitake is pretty difficult to grow, but oysters look easy enough and it would be really cool to clone the nicest fruits the store gets. Say I cloned a really nice oyster fruit and made a master slant with that. Think that would be healthy?


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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: NumeroEno]
    #20620220 - 09/26/14 12:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

not the best idea, alot of them are pushing sensene already when ya want soemthing young for a master


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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: cronicr]
    #20620242 - 09/26/14 12:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What I really want to do with edibles is an outdoor morel bed. That would be fucking awesome.


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:gd_icon:  Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!  :gd_icon:
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in

DOG FOOD AGAR

MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP

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Offlinepawnzy
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: NumeroEno]
    #20620273 - 09/26/14 05:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EnoRoxxx said:
What I really want to do with edibles is an outdoor morel bed. That would be fucking awesome.




I heard morels are hard to cultivate , but i agree thatd be awesome.

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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: NumeroEno]
    #20620277 - 09/26/14 06:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Am i right in assuming that the volume of the grain transfer would contribute to senescence?  For example lets say I hypothetically was doing g2g transfers with a gallon jar. would that be the equivalent of 4 expansions of 1 quart jars?

Also if volume does play a role, would that mean that the transfers from small agar plates would have a only a negligible effect?

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Offlinepawnzy
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: SpinScratch]
    #20620290 - 09/26/14 06:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No thats wrong.. G2G is all about expanding the masture culture, contained in a jar.  The only way its equivalent is in measurement terms.

But im not sure how seneseance occurs in terms of agar transfers..

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: pawnzy]
    #20620363 - 09/26/14 07:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The volume of grain transfer does come into play. It matters a lot in the long run if it was 90 seeds that colonized a jar or 2. If it was 2 there was much more cell division.

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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: Ghatti]
    #20621098 - 09/26/14 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes to both of those. The second part is irrelevant, though, because transfers from a huge agar plate would still have a pretty much negligible effect. Senescence is all about cell division, and there just isn't much mycelium on a 2-dimensional agar surface.


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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: Ghatti]
    #20621183 - 09/26/14 11:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
The volume of grain transfer does come into play. It matters a lot in the long run if it was 90 seeds that colonized a jar or 2. If it was 2 there was much more cell division.


thanks for your input, but Im wondering how someone who thinks mushrooms germinate from seeds knows anything about senescence.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: SpinScratch]
    #20621215 - 09/26/14 11:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

As in wild bird seeds, or grass seeds, or whatever grain you use.

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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: Agar isolation and Senescance [Re: Ghatti]
    #20621804 - 09/26/14 02:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ok. i misunderstood what u said. thanks

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