Home | Community | Message Board

Sporeworks
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11  [ show all ]
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: millzy]
    #20203732 - 06/29/14 04:22 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world


The bible is the literal word of god. How do I know this? It says so in the bible. :flowstone:

i'm a phil major

You should slap your teacher.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 142
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: qman]
    #20614985 - 09/25/14 12:41 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

millzy said:
i'm not using jumbled up terms. for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world. that may not be valid to you, but it is an inference nonetheless.




You were using the terms logic, reason and inference in jumbled up ways. Something can't count as evidence "for believers." Either something is evidence or it isn't. The existence of the universe is not evidence for a god. If you think it is, then explain. Also, an argument cannot be valid "to me." Either it is valid or it is not. This is based solely on logic.




i'm a phil major and you seem confused as to what the terms i'm using mean. the structure of the reasoning, or logic, by which a conclusion is reached is what determines an inference, not that inference's validity. an inference can be valid or invalid, and when it comes to god, mileage varies because nobody knows.

a central component of an inference that you haven't mentioned is a premise. one of the premises involved in inferring god as the world's designer is the world requiring a designer in the first place. this is what most people (including myself) jump on when they criticize the theistic argument for god. but again, for theists, the world is the product of a designer. therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god.




"therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god."

That's not evidence if it's only convincing to just believers.

Evidence proves it to everyone, not just people that have already made up their mind before the "evidence" has been examined.



Physical evidence would never convey it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 days, 2 hours
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Thecrimson]
    #20616096 - 09/25/14 09:18 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

millzy said:
i'm not using jumbled up terms. for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world. that may not be valid to you, but it is an inference nonetheless.




You were using the terms logic, reason and inference in jumbled up ways. Something can't count as evidence "for believers." Either something is evidence or it isn't. The existence of the universe is not evidence for a god. If you think it is, then explain. Also, an argument cannot be valid "to me." Either it is valid or it is not. This is based solely on logic.




i'm a phil major and you seem confused as to what the terms i'm using mean. the structure of the reasoning, or logic, by which a conclusion is reached is what determines an inference, not that inference's validity. an inference can be valid or invalid, and when it comes to god, mileage varies because nobody knows.

a central component of an inference that you haven't mentioned is a premise. one of the premises involved in inferring god as the world's designer is the world requiring a designer in the first place. this is what most people (including myself) jump on when they criticize the theistic argument for god. but again, for theists, the world is the product of a designer. therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god.




"therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god."

That's not evidence if it's only convincing to just believers.

Evidence proves it to everyone, not just people that have already made up their mind before the "evidence" has been examined.



Physical evidence would never convey it.




Very true.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRincewind
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 118
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: qman]
    #20616501 - 09/25/14 11:16 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Just because something has not been proven to be false does not mean that it is true.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 142
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Rincewind]
    #20619729 - 09/25/14 09:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Most atheists don't even know what 'God' is. They don't even know what they don't believe in!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Thecrimson] * 1
    #20619744 - 09/25/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

There are thousands of different gods. Each religion insists theirs is THE true god. So it seems to me that believers "don't even know what 'God' is" either. :ohwell:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Diploid]
    #20621043 - 09/26/14 10:51 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

:haha::pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Icelander]
    #20621055 - 09/26/14 10:56 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Hold your horses...

/


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Edited by liquidlounge (09/29/14 07:33 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11  [ show all ]

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* the Muslim and the Atheist Zahid 1,247 9 07/26/02 02:13 PM
by Anonymous
* Atheist Website responds to Christian Letter
( 1 2 all )
Swami 4,129 20 06/22/03 03:55 PM
by Sclorch
* Some Christians and the Atheist
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Swami 14,269 119 07/31/02 07:19 AM
by Sclorch
* Question to Atheists
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,537 27 08/12/03 09:32 PM
by Pyronate
* Are Atheists __________? Indeed, they are.
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
World Spirit 13,629 190 12/20/02 08:13 PM
by RebelSteve33
* Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
( 1 2 3 all )
EgoTripping 5,581 58 12/13/04 04:18 AM
by Diploid
* The Disclosure Project...Facts slowly being releas
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 4,218 31 04/04/02 03:40 PM
by Eightball
* Why are atheists more moral?
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 3,455 44 12/07/03 09:09 PM
by enotake2

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
8,061 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 15 queries.