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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: millzy]
#20203732 - 06/29/14 04:22 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world
The bible is the literal word of god. How do I know this? It says so in the bible. 
i'm a phil major
You should slap your teacher.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Thecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: qman]
#20614985 - 09/25/14 12:41 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
clock_of_omens said:
Quote:
millzy said: i'm not using jumbled up terms. for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world. that may not be valid to you, but it is an inference nonetheless.
You were using the terms logic, reason and inference in jumbled up ways. Something can't count as evidence "for believers." Either something is evidence or it isn't. The existence of the universe is not evidence for a god. If you think it is, then explain. Also, an argument cannot be valid "to me." Either it is valid or it is not. This is based solely on logic.
i'm a phil major and you seem confused as to what the terms i'm using mean. the structure of the reasoning, or logic, by which a conclusion is reached is what determines an inference, not that inference's validity. an inference can be valid or invalid, and when it comes to god, mileage varies because nobody knows.
a central component of an inference that you haven't mentioned is a premise. one of the premises involved in inferring god as the world's designer is the world requiring a designer in the first place. this is what most people (including myself) jump on when they criticize the theistic argument for god. but again, for theists, the world is the product of a designer. therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god.
"therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god."
That's not evidence if it's only convincing to just believers.
Evidence proves it to everyone, not just people that have already made up their mind before the "evidence" has been examined.
Physical evidence would never convey it.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Thecrimson]
#20616096 - 09/25/14 09:18 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
clock_of_omens said:
Quote:
millzy said: i'm not using jumbled up terms. for believers, the world counts as evidence for god because god is the final, or first, cause of that world. that may not be valid to you, but it is an inference nonetheless.
You were using the terms logic, reason and inference in jumbled up ways. Something can't count as evidence "for believers." Either something is evidence or it isn't. The existence of the universe is not evidence for a god. If you think it is, then explain. Also, an argument cannot be valid "to me." Either it is valid or it is not. This is based solely on logic.
i'm a phil major and you seem confused as to what the terms i'm using mean. the structure of the reasoning, or logic, by which a conclusion is reached is what determines an inference, not that inference's validity. an inference can be valid or invalid, and when it comes to god, mileage varies because nobody knows.
a central component of an inference that you haven't mentioned is a premise. one of the premises involved in inferring god as the world's designer is the world requiring a designer in the first place. this is what most people (including myself) jump on when they criticize the theistic argument for god. but again, for theists, the world is the product of a designer. therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god.
"therefore, for theists, the world itself counts as evidence for god."
That's not evidence if it's only convincing to just believers.
Evidence proves it to everyone, not just people that have already made up their mind before the "evidence" has been examined.
Physical evidence would never convey it.
Very true.
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Rincewind
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Registered: 10/11/11
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: qman]
#20616501 - 09/25/14 11:16 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just because something has not been proven to be false does not mean that it is true.
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Thecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 142
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Rincewind]
#20619729 - 09/25/14 09:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most atheists don't even know what 'God' is. They don't even know what they don't believe in!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Thecrimson] 1
#20619744 - 09/25/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are thousands of different gods. Each religion insists theirs is THE true god. So it seems to me that believers "don't even know what 'God' is" either.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Diploid]
#20621043 - 09/26/14 10:51 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: An atheist fact that cannot be countered [Re: Icelander]
#20621055 - 09/26/14 10:56 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hold your horses...
/
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (09/29/14 07:33 AM)
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