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OfflineLord Krondor
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Which LC Tek
    #20616177 - 09/25/14 09:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm wanting to do a LC With a Spore Syringe .. So many Teks out there which is the best to use? Iv heard of alot of people saying to do Agar but im really interested in doing a LC Anybody have any trusted Teks they personally like ? Thank you all!


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Offlinedpomalia
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Lord Krondor]
    #20616232 - 09/25/14 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

...do agar...
But if u insist on risking a contam then go for lc. What type of time and money do u wanna put in? Do u want a few fl ounces of lc or gallons?
This will change what tek u do

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OfflineLord Krondor
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: dpomalia]
    #20616320 - 09/25/14 10:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Alot 50 jars .. You really think agar will be better? I have a super clean enviroment, glove box ect .. I mean my house is cleaned 6 days excluding sunday because thats the day of rest .


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Lord Krondor]
    #20616335 - 09/25/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

spores -> agar -> LC is the best tek. no matter how clean your house is your prints aren't.

if you wanna go spores -> lc you should add about 2% agar by volume to any LC recipe! :wink:

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Lord Krondor]
    #20616344 - 09/25/14 10:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MichaelSites said:
Alot 50 jars .. You really think agar will be better?



That making an LC from spores, hell yes lol.

No spore print/syringe is ever 100% clean, and LC is the perfect breeding ground for everything nasty.

You cannot tell if an LC is clean or not until test jars are shot up and grown out...and if it is a bad LC, you cannot clean it up, it must be tossed.

If an agar plate contams, there is a 95% change you can clean it up and save the culture.

LCs should only be started from agar for the best results.

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OfflineLord Krondor
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: PussyFart]
    #20616358 - 09/25/14 10:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

MichaelSites said:
Alot 50 jars .. You really think agar will be better?



That making an LC from spores, hell yes lol.

No spore print/syringe is ever 100% clean, and LC is the perfect breeding ground for everything nasty.

You cannot tell if an LC is clean or not until test jars are shot up and grown out...and if it is a bad LC, you cannot clean it up, it must be tossed.

If an agar plate contams, there is a 95% change you can clean it up and save the culture.

LCs should only be started from agar for the best results.



Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

MichaelSites said:
Alot 50 jars .. You really think agar will be better?



That making an LC from spores, hell yes lol.

No spore print/syringe is ever 100% clean, and LC is the perfect breeding ground for everything nasty.

You cannot tell if an LC is clean or not until test jars are shot up and grown out...and if it is a bad LC, you cannot clean it up, it must be tossed.

If an agar plate contams, there is a 95% change you can clean it up and save the culture.

LCs should only be started from agar for the best results.




Okay thats great advice .. from both you guys .. Ill start it on agar AND THEN Do my LC . Guys might have saved me from alot of wasted time ..


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Lord Krondor]
    #20616394 - 09/25/14 10:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if you do as posted above your turning it into a Liquid inoculant with sterile water. 9er tek is a great method for doing this.

with spores there is a risk but it isn't unfathomable. some of the best growers on the net use Liquid cultures. its just a matter of testing it first prior to going big or you can get big contams.

you can apply the 9er tek with agar wedges in place of inner stem tissue. if you have a nice isolated clone on agar its really useful and fast to make a ton of spawn using liquid inoculants or liquid cultures. yes, there is a risk, but the rewards can outweigh the risks.

http://www.shroomery.org/8433/The-9er-Tek


when the flaming begins, ill post something that will illustrate this.


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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616489 - 09/25/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

FLAME lol
edit: I'd just like you to illustrate lol


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Edited by Dekozn (09/25/14 11:14 AM)

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Dekozn]
    #20616519 - 09/25/14 11:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

which one an example of grows done using liquid cultures or a step by step showing how i do cloning via 9er tek or liquid inoculant?


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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616546 - 09/25/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The most easiest one and/or one where I don't need a fucking blender.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616553 - 09/25/14 11:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
when the flaming begins, ill post something that will illustrate this.




I don't think you should take what's being said about your techniques as flaming at all eatyu, rather the opposite.

When a newbie wants to do spores -> LC we tell him its risky and think most
newbs dont have the experience or proper sterile technique to pull it off.

Think of it like trying to learn to play guitar, if some newbie wants to shred his axe with his teeth we would tell him to rather use his hand or a pick to strum the strings.
He can of course post a pic of Jimi Hendrix wailing along with his teeth and say it can be done,
but chances are you wont feel as good after failing to do a boss technique
as you would if you just master playing Tom Dooley straight forward.

I hope you get my point here as its a big thumbs up to you and the other old skool gods that can do almost anything they want because they already got the basics down!

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: spacechildo]
    #20616568 - 09/25/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well i did mention that with spores its more risky and i do understand why folks mention it to noobs. but to simply say that its a waste of time or other things i hear is just someones opinion.


it should be said like so "using spores for liquid cultures for newbs is a waste of time, get your sterile/ clean technique down better before you attempt it".

Quote:

Some of the best growers on the net you have never heard of purely use liquid cultures. That is your opinion and not fact. Ever heard of high roller? If you have the skills to use lc's they can blow any g2g away with speed. Yes there might be a slight more risk using them . But the results and advantages of lcs far outweigh the risks when you do it correclty.

Ever heard  of highroller, myc. Waylitjim? these guys do cubes, exotics, woodlovers, pans all with LC's.

so here is highroller. what he does is he uses liquid cultures to inoculate corn cob spawn. then does seedling flats in a big automated grow room.
when your going large, liquid cultures can make things very easy. at the same time, if you screw up, you can screw up big.

but thats why you test everything before going big. the key here is that you can take a solid, tested, working clone from agar, 9er tek ect and inoculate a liquid culture to reproduce mass amounts of that clone in a short amount of time. yes, going agar to g2g from a plate will be faster at first. but, by the time you have that mass amount of lc ready, how many agar plates will you have to make in order to get the equivelant amount of liquid culture or inoculant? How long does it take for the plate to grow fully, then inoculate your 10 or so masters, then g2g those masters to 100 more quarts? its like the long distance runner versus the sprinter. the sprinter wins up front but at the back end, the long distance runner can go for days. with enough leftover energy to do it all over again.

your going to have to make tons of agar plates to g2g. then go from those 10 to 100 more. even if the liquid cultures takes a full week to grow out. it will colonize all those quarts in less than a week. so comparatively you did far less work using liquid cultures.

once that lc is ready, you have hundreds of quarts ready. and by the time you transfer those 10 quarts you used as masters to make 100 quarts of grain, boom all the lc's are colonized and ready for spawning. your still waiting on the g2g'ed jars to colonize. now, don't get me wrong, i like all of these methods. i work with everything myself p2g, g2g, lc, li. i love every type of cultivation out there. it is an art. but to say its a waste of time is not correct. you can even colonize 100 quart grain jars in 3-4 days with 1 pf cake. so by the time you take that agar plate/wedge and transfer it to 10 quarts. which may take possibly a week or two to colonize. then take those 10 and colonize 100 more, your looking at a month. whereas, i can have 100 quarts with LI or Lc colonized in a matter of less than a week and ready to spawn.

so, to each his own, but im looking at it from both positions, and i know LI blows all of them away, but LC is right up there with it. The LC might take a week more to establish but once its going its going. and you only need a small amount of clone material to make that lc. so, your only using a tiny bit of clone to make a shit ton of clone. thats the beauty of it.

highrollers example.



this was all done using liquid cultures. and thats just one small portion of the pictures from his grows.
now i hope i have demonstrated the beauty of liquid cultures and i hope that in the future others will try it and not deny it.






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Edited by eatyualive (09/25/14 11:33 AM)

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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Dekozn]
    #20616595 - 09/25/14 11:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dekozn said:
The most easiest one and/or one where I don't need a fucking blender.



it requires a blender.

you can do something called GLC. but you need colonized grain jars for this to work. agar even did it with multispore inoculation which recently is like speaking blasphemy at a church on this forum.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6817701#6817701

and a variation of this. but this ones cool because you dry out the mycelia and can easily store a library of clones for use all year.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6886717/an/0/page/0


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Edited by eatyualive (09/25/14 11:38 AM)

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616626 - 09/25/14 11:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that blunt statements like that isn't necessarily correct, but sometimes you need to speak with big letters to make sure the message comes through.

Newbies often use way too much spores anyway, or want to use 3cc's from a syringe to LC which spells trouble to me.

I also think that if you need to ask questions about LC's you aren't ready to do LC's yet. in most cases of course.

learn to walk before you run etc, master Tom Dooley before you try Iron Maiden guitar solo's and you'll have much more fun.

again I hope you see I'm not disagreeing with you, I just try to explain how I feel. Of course LC's work and can be helpful,
but I'd go as far as stating a newb trying to grow Cubes really dont need to do a LC.

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: spacechildo]
    #20616690 - 09/25/14 11:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Isnt the appeal of using LC. That it stretches your spore syringe?

When I started I thought you needed close to a 1Cc per jar.
But if I inncoculate via syringe now I only use a drop or two, a syringe ought to last a very long time


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: spacechildo]
    #20616702 - 09/25/14 12:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
I agree that blunt statements like that isn't necessarily correct, but sometimes you need to speak with big letters to make sure the message comes through.

Newbies often use way too much spores anyway, or want to use 3cc's from a syringe to LC which spells trouble to me.

I also think that if you need to ask questions about LC's you aren't ready to do LC's yet. in most cases of course.

learn to walk before you run etc, master Tom Dooley before you try Iron Maiden guitar solo's and you'll have much more fun.

again I hope you see I'm not disagreeing with you, I just try to explain how I feel. Of course LC's work and can be helpful,
but I'd go as far as stating a newb trying to grow Cubes really dont need to do a LC.




you will never learn unless you try. i agree in the respect that once you get a few grows under your belt and learn how to properly do some sterile technique that is when you should begin. but, at the same time, if you can properly do clean agar work. LC's are not harder than doing agar work. you just need the proper utensils like an injection port on the lid and a filter like sfd or whatman port.

i mean certain luxuries like stir plates aren't readily available for everyone for price but they do help. hell i have a stir plate and stir bars i haven't used in years. 


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Edited by eatyualive (09/25/14 12:01 PM)

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OfflineLord Krondor
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616796 - 09/25/14 12:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

All these are great points iv done like 5 or 6 grows using docs wbs tek and the bucket tek but im sick of using a billion syringes and wasting all kinds of money when i can do a LC .. Screw it im gonna do a Spore to LC And knock up a brf cake to test it. .. ill just keep trying until i get it right like you all said you gotta learn somehow .. I may be a noob but im working on becoming a umm not a noob :P


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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: eatyualive]
    #20616811 - 09/25/14 12:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thx for the links. I tried the grain LC once (with a MS knocked up grain jar) but some how I managed to fuck it up, all my jars got contams but the master jar wich I spawned afterwards still did great though.
The other link I find kind of confusing but I'll just have to read it a few times...


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Which LC Tek [Re: Lord Krondor] * 1
    #20617499 - 09/25/14 02:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MichaelSites said:
All these are great points iv done like 5 or 6 grows using docs wbs tek and the bucket tek but im sick of using a billion syringes and wasting all kinds of money when i can do a LC .. Screw it im gonna do a Spore to LC And knock up a brf cake to test it. .. ill just keep trying until i get it right like you all said you gotta learn somehow .. I may be a noob but im working on becoming a umm not a noob :P





As Ive been finding out man clean spawn is everything. If you can be sure your spawn is clean you waste way less time.

There are other solutions if you just dont wanna waste spores,

  Why not make a couple grain masters and G2G?

You most definitly CAN get an LC. To work but it seems unnecessary and if you use grains. Just make a clean master jar and grain to grain from there, you will use the same amount of spore that would be going into LC. and the jars will colonize just as fast (if not much faster).


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