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InvisibleGhatti
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Flow hood help
    #20616180 - 09/25/14 09:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So I'm in the market for hood parts and ran across this filter for $60. It seems incredibly cheap for a 99.99% efficiency. Will someone tell me if its a suitable starting point and why or why not so I can be a bit more educated.


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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616189 - 09/25/14 09:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We're is it? And the ideal filter filters down to .03 microns. Which is better than 99.99 efficiency I believe.


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616250 - 09/25/14 10:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hepa is defined as 99.97 down to 3 Microns I believe.

This is rated as 99.992%

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616297 - 09/25/14 10:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sweet, grab me one while you're there. where are you btw.


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"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616319 - 09/25/14 10:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Nvm. It's eBay and for pick up only. Still like to know if I'm on the right track.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616332 - 09/25/14 10:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes that one is good.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Sockadin]
    #20616342 - 09/25/14 10:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm looking at IQAir purifiers that filter particles as small as .003 microns in 600sq rooms (filters 2x/hr). 100x more efficient than a standard hepa filter. WTF?! I'm getting one of these things.


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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OfflineMushroomWizard420
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Sockadin]
    #20616348 - 09/25/14 10:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

H14 is 99.97%
U14 is 99.99%
both are fine for flow hood work, but obviously the 99.99 is ideal. the static pressure is 1.3", which will work if you do your math properly for the fan, but it's a little higher than most i've seen.
i'd say it's just fine overall.


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
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OfflineMushroomWizard420
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616351 - 09/25/14 10:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starsky7 said:
I'm looking at IQAir purifiers that filter particles as small as .003 microns in 600sq rooms (filters 2x/hr). 100x more efficient than a standard hepa filter. WTF?! I'm getting one of these things.



how big is the surface of the filter and can  you actually make a hood with it?


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
-Shroomesis 4:20

                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616361 - 09/25/14 10:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm actually quite lost and don't know what I'm  looking for aside from size. I see ones with 5in depth and ones with 12in depth.

As far as resistance, penetration, and rated cfm what am I looking for really? I'm under the impression I can get a fan to match pretty much whatever but I'd still like to keep it pretty cheap.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20616372 - 09/25/14 10:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No, its just an air purifier, I'm not positive you would even want to dissasemble the thing. it's almost a grand. But I'd love one of these for my home, along with a laminar flow hood, cuz the specs on that thing make me feel like it would be like breathing the air of the gods.


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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Offlinestarsky7
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616375 - 09/25/14 10:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
I'm actually quite lost and don't know what I'm  looking for aside from size. I see ones with 5in depth and ones with 12in depth.

As far as resistance, penetration, and rated cfm what am I looking for really? I'm under the impression I can get a fan to match pretty much whatever but I'd still like to keep it pretty cheap.



Lol, I'm pretty sure you're looking for the 12in depth (BAHAHAHA) but seriously 5in is fine I'm sure so long as it filters down to .3... I'm looking at a book on building flow hoods for mycology right meow. or at least a book with a section about building flow hoods in it.


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616380 - 09/25/14 10:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I dont so much think the depth matters but the resistance. But I don't know exactly how it plays in.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616398 - 09/25/14 10:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

FILTER SIZE:  BLOWER SIZE:
12"x24"      400-500 cfm
24"X24"      800-100 CFM
36"X24"      1200-1400 CFM

These ratings assume .8 static pressure HEPA .2 SP prefilter


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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616404 - 09/25/14 10:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The filter should be about 8" deep, but you can find ones just as efficient at around 5-6"


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"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616422 - 09/25/14 10:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Or this one? It's thin and I still don't get exactly what I'm looking for for laminar flow.


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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616448 - 09/25/14 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That looks gravy my dude, Now you just gotta find a blower for it. what are the dimensions.


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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616452 - 09/25/14 11:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

AND WHERE ARE YOU , lol, i need to go get one too.


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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616457 - 09/25/14 11:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
Or this one? It's thin and I still don't get exactly what I'm looking for for laminar flow.





This company makes filters for clean rooms, I think you're gonna be just fine brudduh.


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616469 - 09/25/14 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
I'm actually quite lost and don't know what I'm  looking for aside from size. I see ones with 5in depth and ones with 12in depth.

As far as resistance, penetration, and rated cfm what am I looking for really? I'm under the impression I can get a fan to match pretty much whatever but I'd still like to keep it pretty cheap.



that's right for the most part. but before you purchase it you should do the math and check around just in case. i'm gonna list the math for my filter as an example..

find the surface area of the filter in square feet:
2 * 2 = 4
multiply that by 100 to find the approximate cfm your fan will need to produce
4 * 100 = 400 (CFM)
it's recommended to add 10-20% to the theoretical required cfm because there tons of extra variables
400 * 1.1 = 440
400 * 1.2 = 480
then you have your required cfm range that you need need to look for
440-480 CFM
then just keep in mind that fans produce different cfm at different static pressures, and that the pre filter you'll be placing in front of your filter has roughly 0.2" static pressure.
i need a fan that produces between 440 and 480 CFM at 1.0" static pressure

YOU need a fan that produces the surface area of your filter (in feet), multiplied by 100, multiplied by 1.1 to 1.2.
but you need to find its graph/table to make sure it produces that CFM at 1.5" static pressure (1.3" for the filter and 0.2" for the pre filter)

hope that made some sense... after you've done your math send me your numbers and i'll double check it


--------------------
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                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
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                                              :shroomin:
                               
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20616481 - 09/25/14 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and depth doesn't matter at all, it just affects the resistance of the filter, but we can clearly see the filter is rated at 1.3" resistance (depth included...) you just need static pressure and efficiency rating from the filter, buying the fan is when you need to worry about matching static pressure with cfm.


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
-Shroomesis 4:20

                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
          The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: starsky7]
    #20616487 - 09/25/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

EBay dude. And not all clean room filters will provide laminar flow due to resistance.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616509 - 09/25/14 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But I see filters with different rated cfm listed on them, what is this? If its a 2x2 filter how will the cfm needed differ between a filter rated 1000cfm and one rated 500cfm?

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616514 - 09/25/14 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Is there a minimum resistance I must have in the filter? And especially to keep from spending 500 on a blower.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616657 - 09/25/14 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

filters don't have cfm ratings, they have set static pressures that are determined by how much airflow they allow through them. filters are used to test cfm on fans, and fans are used to test static pressure on filters (don't quote me on that, i'm sure they have some fancier scientific ways of doing it, i'm just making a point). a filter doesn't produce any cfm, but if you have it's static pressure, you can use that to determine how much cfm you will need from your fan. but you're skipping the first step..
what is the cfm you will need? so we're on the same page and can talk specifics instead of generalities.


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
-Shroomesis 4:20

                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
          The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20616673 - 09/25/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't purchased a filter yet so to be determined.  The second pic for instance is rated 330cfm @ 1wg

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616679 - 09/25/14 11:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So does this mean I would need a slightly larger than 330cfm fan for prefilter etc? What static pressure am I aiming for?

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616696 - 09/25/14 11:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So I made the mistake of ordering a smaller blower and it blows. Going to have to upgrade when payday comes. Do the math. It is important.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Sockadin]
    #20616722 - 09/25/14 12:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So I found a static pressure of 1 is acceptable I believe. So if that filter is rated at 330cfm @ 1wg then all I really need to figure out is what my prefilter will affect correct?

But also on the filter it states RES drop 0.61wg @ 90fpm

What the shit is this? I know we want about 100fpm exiting the filter so is this saying I will only have .61wg on the filter or less at 100fpm?

Edited by Ghatti (09/25/14 12:04 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616748 - 09/25/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
But I see filters with different rated cfm listed on them, what is this? If its a 2x2 filter how will the cfm needed differ between a filter rated 1000cfm and one rated 500cfm?



i just noticed that you gave me the info i just asked for. use the same math i did for mine because we have the same surface area, so your numbers are
440-480 CFM @ 1.5" static pressure
now, ignoring anything about the filter for now, you need to look for a fan with one of those charts that shows that at 1.5" static pressure the fan produces anywhere from 440 to 480 CFM. better to overshoot and go for something around 500 CFM than something closer to 400 CFM because you can always add another pre filter.
Quote:

Ghatti said:
So does this mean I would need a slightly larger than 330cfm fan for prefilter etc? What static pressure am I aiming for?



ideally something around 1.0" static pressure, but as long as it has a high enough efficiency (99.97%+) then it should be fine theoretically. you just might have to put more effort into finding a proper fan


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
-Shroomesis 4:20

                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
          The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20616762 - 09/25/14 12:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

static pressure is no more important than anything else, all the factors are important in achieving the end result of laminar flow (even flow of air at 100 FPM). if your static pressure is super high you'll just need a super strong fan, it's that simple.


--------------------
"And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good."
-Shroomesis 4:20

                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
          The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Sockadin]
    #20616856 - 09/25/14 12:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
So I made the mistake of ordering a smaller blower and it blows.



lol


--------------------
"In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments, there are consequences" - Robert Greene Ingersoll

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616863 - 09/25/14 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok so I just looked at a filter. It said wg 0.15, test flow 1000cfm.

How would you adapt this down to have 1wg? Or does this filter just have too high of a flow? What I'm asking is am I looking for a filter with a 1wg rating it close to it?

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20616965 - 09/25/14 12:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok so here's a rundown on the filter specs Efficiency: 99.9995% @ 0.12 Microns
Rated CFM: 330 @ 1.0 W.G
Press. Drop: .61 W.G @ 90 FPM

So its roughly 3.4sq ft, times 100 = 340, times 1.2 adjusting for prefilter and the like = 408cfm.

Right?

So basically I'd look for a blower that was rated at least 400 under 1wg of static pressure?

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20616987 - 09/25/14 12:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

basically you want a filter that has a high resistance somewhere around 1" (Static pressure) at the cfm of the the square feet of your filter face x 100(this allows 100 ft per minute exiting the entire filter face which is what we describe as laminar flow). So a filter with a 2x2 face should have a tested airflow around 400+ cfm at around 1" S.P. The thicker the filter the less resistance, and though many still achieve success with the 12 in filters the 6 in filters have better specs for achieving laminar flow IMO(more resistance = more even flow out the filter). So once you have the filter you just want to find a blower that will deliver at least the tested airflow under the static pressure of the filter + prefilter + 10%-20%. So the blower for a 2x2 filter with a tested airflow of 400 cfm at 1" S.P. needs to deliver at least 400 cfm at 1.3-1.5 S.P.(filter-1"  prefilter-.2"  additional 10-20%-.1"-.3").  More is better than less.  If your blower is too much you can use a speed dimmer to adjust. You can't make a lesser blower enough as sock has found out the hard way. Do your homework before you fork it out. I payed twice as much for my first hood as my current one and it was half the size. I just wasn't exactly sure what to look for so i just ordered from fungiperfecti to be sure i had the right specs. Once you know what you need you can find it pretty easy. Filtera.com is great for filters grainger and zorotools for blowers and sometimes ebay for both.


--------------------

Edited by tombosley8 (09/25/14 01:02 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: tombosley8]
    #20617011 - 09/25/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
basically you want a filter that has a high resistance somewhere around 1" (Static pressure) at the cfm of the the square feet of your filter face x 100(this allows 100 ft per minute exiting the entire filter face which is what we describe as laminar flow). So a filter with a 2x2 face should have a tested airflow around 400+ cfm at around 1" S.P. The thicker the filter the less resistance, and though many still achieve success with the 12 in filters the 6 in filters have better specs for achieving laminar flow IMO(more resistance = more even flow out the filter). So once you have the filter you just want to find a blower that will deliver at least the tested airflow under the static pressure of the filter + prefilter + 10%-20%. So the blower for a 2x2 filter with a tested airflow of 400 cfm at 1" S.P. needs to deliver at least 400 cfm at 1.3-1.5 S.P.(filter-1"  prefilter-.2"  additional 10-20%-.1"-.3").  More is better than less.  If your blower is too much you can use a speed dimmer to adjust. You can't make a lesser blower enough.




everything i was saying, but more concise. :whathesaid:


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: tombosley8]
    #20617017 - 09/25/14 12:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I do believe I have it. Anyone double check that quick math?

So when even looking at/for filters I generally want to find one with 1wg to beging with correct?

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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20617026 - 09/25/14 01:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it's not wg that your looking for... its static pressure (sp) or if your European pascals.
wg is usually referring to pressure drop.

http://www.pureairsystems.com/Pure-Air-University-103-Filtrat1.html
everything about a filter you need to know.
including how static pressure is determined.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20617027 - 09/25/14 01:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
Ok so here's a rundown on the filter specs Efficiency: 99.9995% @ 0.12 Microns
Rated CFM: 330 @ 1.0 W.G
Press. Drop: .61 W.G @ 90 FPM

So its roughly 3.4sq ft, times 100 = 340, times 1.2 adjusting for prefilter and the like = 408cfm.

Right?

So basically I'd look for a blower that was rated at least 400 under 1wg of static pressure?



where did you get 3.4? i thought you were looking at 2x2, so 4ft2


--------------------
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                                  :supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom: :kingtard::supershroom: :supershroom: :supershroom:
                                  :poison: MushroomWizard420 :poison:
                                              :shroomin:
                               
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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20617036 - 09/25/14 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry I thought I had put this in there

Size: 20.5" x 20.5" x 3.25"

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: MushroomWizard420]
    #20617083 - 09/25/14 01:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

look for a blower that does 340 cfm at 1.3"+ and you should be good but maybe the way you did the math is efficient as well but the difference in blowing ability can drastically change from just a little bit more or less resistance depending on the blower. For example It could go from 400 cfm at 1" to 200 cfm at 1.2". You just want to make sure you can push enough air through at the total resistance of the filter prefilter and 10-20%. Now i'm starting to second guess where that 10-20% should be tacked on. The cfm or the resistance?


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Edited by tombosley8 (09/25/14 01:17 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: tombosley8]
    #20617188 - 09/25/14 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So with that filter and allowing for the prefilter should I look for a 400cfm blower or a 400cfm blower at 1SP?

Cause that would mean I'd have to go more towards 450. Is there a formula for determining the drop in cfm when adding 1 sp? So if its not listed on a blower I can calculate it myself.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: tombosley8]
    #20617248 - 09/25/14 01:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Good question... i'm not sure as it depends on the blower. I would think if you compare with the difference in cfm between the previous data then You could get close. So say it goes from 500 cfm at .9" to 450 cfm at 1" then the next would be around 400 at 1.1". Of course this is not exact so I would overcompensate. Some blowers will start dropping cfm rapidly at those higher resistances. Shoot for the bigger blower and adjust with one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Variable-Fan-Speed-Controller-Inline-Duct-Vortex-Blower-Exhaust-Control-1800W-/191063176059?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item2c7c40b37b until you bend a flame from a bic at 60 degrees 2 inches from the filter.


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Edited by tombosley8 (09/25/14 01:48 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: tombosley8]
    #20617349 - 09/25/14 02:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So far for daytons at least it only seems to be between a 10-30 cfm drop at 1 sp.

I would imagine it would be more for a cheaper fan. Anywho if I do indeed need something around 450cfm the Fucking price tag on a Dayton is like $175 before tax and shipping.


There are a few in line centrifugal fans for around 75$ but they don't have any specs for under static pressure.

Edited by Ghatti (09/25/14 02:09 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20617623 - 09/25/14 03:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Seeing as I don't have a stat for how certain fans drop under 1SP, what do you think the safe range would be to buy considering I need 400cfm after the filters?

I am guessing 450-475 but I hate to be too low on this and waste my money.

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20618179 - 09/25/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Okey doke I think I found something quite suitable for a reasonable price to match the filter I last spoke of

http://m.ebay.com/itm/261599230466?nav=SEARCH

It's a bit overpowered but it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Anyone confirm?

Now I just have to figure out how to wire the Fucking thing without electrocuting myself

Edited by Ghatti (09/25/14 04:57 PM)

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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20618372 - 09/25/14 05:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the description on Grainger says that it pushes way less than you need at that static pressure

http://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/DAYTON-Blower-4C444

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: blojo02184]
    #20618457 - 09/25/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That is for the model they're replacing the one I'm looking at with. The one I'm looking at has been discontinued.

The replacement is 350, the dc'd model is 485.

Edited by Ghatti (09/25/14 05:43 PM)

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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Ghatti]
    #20618685 - 09/25/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
OP asked to make it so...

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