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Jeff Vader
Ineffable


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 427
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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What is MS, exactly?
#20599854 - 09/22/14 03:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Howdy all,
I have been on this forum for a few months. One question I am still not clear on. What exactly is a MS print?
I have had three grows under my belt. The first two were less than potent, nothing more than a body high. My fourth, jeez!! Damn potent from the same print and same tek.
How can I isolate this? Do I have a MS print? Really confused on this one...
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“With four hundred milligrams of moksha-medicine in their bloodstreams, even beginners
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Jeff Vader]
#20599883 - 09/22/14 04:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Multi spore print. When the mushroom fruits and matures, and the veil breaks, you can harvest the spores on tin foil. This is called printing. These spore prints will have millions of different spores with multiple variation of genetics. If you wanted to clone the fruit instead of taking the print, you can clone to agar.
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Jeff Vader
Ineffable


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 427
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Sockadin]
#20599892 - 09/22/14 04:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great, I thought as much just wasn't 100% sure. Thanks!
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“With four hundred milligrams of moksha-medicine in their bloodstreams, even beginners
can catch a glimpse of the world as it looks to someone who has been liberated
from his bondage to the ego.”
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Djchrist
Student



Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 618
Loc: South Africa
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Jeff Vader]
#20599964 - 09/22/14 06:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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While we are on the topic, when taking a clone is it automatically a mono culture or do you still need to isolate it from the clone
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Djchrist]
#20599970 - 09/22/14 06:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A clone is almost never a monoculture off the bat. I have taken clones where I could not even make out sectors until the second transfer.
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ant707
not a puppet


Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 579
Loc: northeast florida
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20600013 - 09/22/14 06:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by ant707 (09/22/14 06:56 AM)
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kmetric



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 140
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20600417 - 09/22/14 09:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: A clone is almost never a monoculture off the bat. I have taken clones where I could not even make out sectors until the second transfer.
So this means..you could isolate from clone tissue and end up with a monoculture that has different phenotypes than the clone had? Fruits differently, size, etc, etc.?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: kmetric]
#20600447 - 09/22/14 10:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kmetric said: So this means..you could isolate from clone tissue and end up with a monoculture that has different phenotypes than the clone had? Fruits differently, size, etc, etc.?
Yes.
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A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
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kmetric



Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: PussyFart]
#20600621 - 09/22/14 10:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Abshroom
Cause he can


Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 810
Loc: Germany
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: PussyFart]
#20600637 - 09/22/14 10:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
kmetric said: So this means..you could isolate from clone tissue and end up with a monoculture that has different phenotypes than the clone had? Fruits differently, size, etc, etc.?
Yes.
If that's the case, there's no real benefit from taking a clone instead of starting fresh from a print, except that with the clone you won't have to wait till germination like with spores? Or does the clone at least have limited genetics?
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pawnzy
That Guy


Registered: 03/04/14
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Abshroom]
#20600658 - 09/22/14 11:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Abshroom said:
Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
kmetric said: So this means..you could isolate from clone tissue and end up with a monoculture that has different phenotypes than the clone had? Fruits differently, size, etc, etc.?
Yes.
If that's the case, there's no real benefit from taking a clone instead of starting fresh from a print, except that with the clone you won't have to wait till germination like with spores? Or does the clone at least have limited genetics?
Limited genetics. With a print which IS MS you will get a random assortment of different genes. Cloning you get the genes of the mushroom you clone
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: pawnzy]
#20600872 - 09/22/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A clone also narrows the field. A swipe of spores from a loop has 10, 000+ sets of genetics to deal with. A clone will have between 1 to 100ish. A lot less transfers with a clone. Also with a clone you have a better chance of getting a monoculture capable of fruiting. With isolation from spores you will need to isolate 10-15 and half of those will fruit poorly if at all. A well chosen clone from a cluster will usually give you genetics that will fruit well.
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Djchrist
Student



Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 618
Loc: South Africa
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20604501 - 09/23/14 12:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well that cleared things up for me  Thanks allot community
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Abshroom]
#20604522 - 09/23/14 12:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Abshroom said: If that's the case, there's no real benefit from taking a clone instead of starting fresh from a print, except that with the clone you won't have to wait till germination like with spores? Or does the clone at least have limited genetics?
Just to elaborate a bit on what Pawnzy and PW said:
It's important to remember that when you do a clone, even if it has 100 sets of genetics (strains), they aren't random: they're the genetics that did make up the fruiting body you cloned. If it was a super-fast, super-potent mushroom, the genes for speed and for potency are in there--although not necessarily in the same strain, so if you teased each strain out into an isolate you could potentially end up with a fast strain and a potent strain but not necessarily a fast AND potent strain, although it is possible to have both at once.
On the other hand, if you're just going straight from spores, you have no guarantee you have any of these genetics as you choose sectors to transfer. That's why most people prefer to do spores to agar, which guarantees clean inoculate and somewhat limited genetics, then a multispore grow, then a clone and isolation and several tester grows to try to get a really good culture. If you're happy with MS grows, though, you can always just to go agar, limit genetics with a transfer or two, and inoculate.
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pawnzy
That Guy


Registered: 03/04/14
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Psilicon]
#20604834 - 09/23/14 05:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great elaboration van der griegen, I am one of those people that doesnt like ms... i just lost half my jars (16 pf tek , 13 rye ) to contams i reaaaaaaally think were from syringe. So I just put every syringe i had on agar and putting all my stuff past agar from now on.
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Attainment



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 388
Loc: the sticks
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: pawnzy]
#20604843 - 09/23/14 05:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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so how long does it take to see growth on agar? I've put spore solution on pasty plates and saw nothing after 2 weeks. a few days ago, I dropped some colonized grains on some plates, and did a few with spore solution. how long till I can expect to see growth, if any grows at all?
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pawnzy
That Guy


Registered: 03/04/14
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: What is MS, exactly? [Re: Attainment]
#20604880 - 09/23/14 05:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Attainment said: so how long does it take to see growth on agar? I've put spore solution on pasty plates and saw nothing after 2 weeks. a few days ago, I dropped some colonized grains on some plates, and did a few with spore solution. how long till I can expect to see growth, if any grows at all?
I have really shitty luck with syringes to agar, and i know some other people that have problems getting spore solution to germinate on Potato Dextrose Agar. Never tried grains, but when i drop spores i see growth in a week, then after a transfer you see growth almost daily
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