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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: nutes [Re: PurePleasure]
    #20593077 - 09/20/14 02:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PurePleasure said:
. But nutes? Not really. I think that's why most molds can't sporulate on just coir.



Don't think that spore don't germinate on coir because of the low nutes. I'm not sure but I think it has something to do with the amount of salts per parts or something. If i find the link I'll post it... Just don't take my word for it.


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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: nutes [Re: Dekozn]
    #20593197 - 09/20/14 03:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's not what I was looking for but it kinda gives some explanation can't find the article I was talking about. This pdf also doesn't explain  why spores won't germinate on coir...
www.agrococo.com/.../LIMING_PROPERTIES_OF_AGROCOIR.pdf


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: nutes [Re: Dekozn]
    #20593229 - 09/20/14 03:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've never once had a complaint about potency on my coir grows. And those have all been multispore.


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OfflinePurePleasure
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Re: nutes [Re: cronicr]
    #20596322 - 09/21/14 09:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

PurePleasure said:

. But nutes? Not really. I think that's why most molds can't sporulate on just coir.



molds can easily sporulate on coir, but mold spores don't easily germinate on coir however live mold mycelium will devour it



:takingnotes:


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: nutes [Re: PurePleasure]
    #20605438 - 09/23/14 10:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

PurePleasure said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Cellulose, some minerals, sugars, maybe carbs - the stuff that goes into agar, grain, and bulk nutes mostly, 'cause that's what makes 'em grow. :thumbup:

:peace:PS



CVG is nearly nuteless, I believe.




It really depends on what organism you're talking about.  Lots of things can and do digest coir, including cubensis, which means it has nutrients.  It's rich in cellulose and lignin, and probably has a pretty high mineral content.  For lower fungi, I'd agree that it is nearly nuteless, so skip the coir when you're buying materials for your mold farm, PurePleasure.

Manure has a much higher amount of lipids and proteins than does coir, and if fungi can break down proteins (hint: they can) they'll benefit from the increased nitrogen or even the pre-constructed amino acids, because pretty much all organisms use the same peptides.  I agree with those above that a supplemented substrate will probably perform better than straight coir/verm, but it also increases the risk of contamination by making the substrate more attractive to other fungi.




I hate to break it to you but just because you can digest a McDonald's double cheese burger, doesn't make it nutritious. I by know means understand the diet of cubensis mycelium but I figured if I provide it with everything that nutritiondata.self.com provides on there website, I can't go wrong.
Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends.



MS genetics or isolates?




MS. I had used the same LC with the CVG in three different tubs before trying to change h
ow I approached things. It just can't be coincidence that the first 3 tubs were disappointing and then I focus on nutrition and pow there goes the potency and it's been great ever since.

Quote:

PurePleasure said:
Quote:

azur said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends. I love this hobby and I love nutritional science. When my only profit is the feedback I receive , it really hurts when it's only negative. Yes mycelium can digest coir and verm but people can just as well digest a fast food burger, doesn't mean it contains optimal nutrition. Without the right nutrients living organisms can not synthesize all that is needed for digestion, immunity and reproduction. We all know that mycelium produces psychoactive alkalines during the reproductive stage. I may not know exactly what all it needs nutritionally but I figured if I provided everything, then it would not be missing anything it may need to be at it's peak performance.



I've got to agree with you man. And I've said it before with a lot of grief from others. Well balanced diet is key. Well put

If you like, you can PM me and we can discuss a few things about nutrition.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20605456 - 09/23/14 10:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
MS. I had used the same LC with the CVG in three different tubs before trying to change h
ow I approached things. It just can't be coincidence that the first 3 tubs were disappointing and then I focus on nutrition and pow there goes the potency and it's been great ever since.



Sure it can.....anything is possible with MS genetics.....

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20605483 - 09/23/14 10:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Its possible that your ms LC had a fair amount of genetic recombination leading to similar results everytime you used it. Also as PF alluded to, 3 ms grows is hardly representative of the possiblities. I have grown cubes on coir that will blow your head out your ass. Stop dicking around with ms LC and learn how to grow consistently potent fruits using isolates. You will be happy you did.

MS LC is a waste anyway, if I'm gonna take the chance and use an LC I'm gonna be damn sure the results are worth the risk. Crap pinsets and bunk fruits ain't worth that risk IMO.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: nutes [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20605540 - 09/23/14 10:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid: Neither is the risk of inoculating an LC with a dirty MS syringe.....always go to agar before making an LC.....just to make sure your inoculant is clean....

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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: nutes [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20605555 - 09/23/14 10:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
For lower fungi, I'd agree that it is nearly nuteless, so skip the coir when you're buying materials for your mold farm, PurePleasure.




God-damn nut and shell there. :laugh2:

:peace:PS




First of all, most of my nutrition is added to grain jars before serlization. If it's 100% colonized than it has zero risk of contaminating after that. Second, I PROPERLY pasteurize my bulk substrate. Last but not least I never go over 66% substrate per tub and when I spawn my colonized grain to my sub, I pack it down tight. It takes approximately 8 days to fully colonize and when it does it looks like a giant frosted cake. It takes another 2 weeks to pin. I believe this is because it continues eating the substrate, possibly storing energy before fruiting. It's surface is a rubber type texture and is fully resistant to contams as long as there is no exposed substrate, so mix well. I have not pulled a single mushroom that weighed under 10g wet.

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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: nutes [Re: PussyFart]
    #20605563 - 09/23/14 10:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've dabbled in isolating cultures on agar. I plan on getting serious though, just wanted to focus on nutrition and environmental factors before messing with genetics. I figured if I can consistently get good results with MS, I will be upping my game if I start using those same concepts with aggressive isolates.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20605584 - 09/23/14 11:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
If it's 100% colonized than it has zero risk of contaminating after that.



Not true.....fully colonized means contam resistant, to a degree.......

Quote:

insanemike said:
It's surface is a rubber type texture and is fully resistant to contams as long as there is no exposed substrate, so mix well.



There is always going to be exposed substrate when spawning bulk.....not sure what you are trying to get at here.......a rubbery texture is not a good thing.

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20605613 - 09/23/14 11:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
I've dabbled in isolating cultures on agar. I plan on getting serious though, just wanted to focus on nutrition and environmental factors before messing with genetics. I figured if I can consistently get good results with MS, I will be upping my game if I start using those same concepts with aggressive isolates.




Except its still a crapshoot with ms, as you found. By your reasoning Gary Colman should be able to beat the shit outta Mike Tyson as long as he eats his veggies and gets a good nights sleep.

Even if substrate composition affected potency marginally, the only way you could qualify your results would be with an isolate run side by side with different substrates.

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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: nutes [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20605634 - 09/23/14 11:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
If it's 100% colonized than it has zero risk of contaminating after that.



Not true.....fully colonized means contam resistant, to a degree.......

Quote:

insanemike said:
It's surface is a rubber type texture and is fully resistant to contams as long as there is no exposed substrate, so mix well.



There is always going to be exposed substrate when spawning bulk.....not sure what you are trying to get at here.......a rubbery texture is not a good thing.




Yeah the texture seems to be one solid mass and it fruits great. I was fruiting them straight from 11×9×2 press n seal lined aluminum trays. The trays fit right into a 27qt sterlite tub. I pulled an average of 1 dry oz from 4 of them over a 2 week fruiting period.

Sorry about the exposed substrate thing, I meant to say, make sure it's 100% colonized before birthing ( I know I stated the obvious) Do you mind if I PM you, pussyfart? I have a few questions about my agar/isolate idea, I would love some advice.
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
I've dabbled in isolating cultures on agar. I plan on getting serious though, just wanted to focus on nutrition and environmental factors before messing with genetics. I figured if I can consistently get good results with MS, I will be upping my game if I start using those same concepts with aggressive isolates.




Except its still a crapshoot with ms, as you found. By your reasoning Gary Colman should be able to beat the shit outta Mike Tyson as long as he eats his veggies and gets a good nights sleep.

Edit: No! I'm not saying Colman would have ever been able to beat Tyson. What I'm saying is what if your isolates could be more like an Olympic lifter rather than a body builder. One looks strong while the other is strong. Without a healthy balanced diet and exercise, genetics will only get you so far.

Even if substrate composition affected potency marginally, the only way you could qualify your results would be with an isolate run side by side with different substrates.




I plan on doing that exact experiment when I get the isolates going.

Edited by insanemike (09/23/14 11:25 AM)

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20605978 - 09/23/14 12:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:

MS. I had used the same LC with the CVG in three different tubs before trying to change h
ow I approached things. It just can't be coincidence that the first 3 tubs were disappointing and then I focus on nutrition and pow there goes the potency and it's been great ever since.




:havesomescience:

  Adding some nutes to a substandard sub will get you much further than adding any amount of unnecessary supplements to an adequate sub.  Just sayin'.

Quote:

when I spawn my colonized grain to my sub, I pack it down tight.




Ewwh.  Really excellent, not is. :yoda2:

Quote:

It's surface is a rubber type texture




Ewwh.  See above...

Quote:


I've dabbled in isolating cultures on agar. I plan on getting serious though, just wanted to focus on nutrition and environmental factors before messing with genetics. I figured if I can consistently get good results with MS, I will be upping my game if I start using those same concepts with aggressive isolates.





Fuck, man, just get down with it. Genetics trump all other factors.  Nobody gets "consistency" from MS, MS is always the crapshoot its name implies.

:peace:PS


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Edited by PrimalSoup (09/23/14 01:02 PM)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: nutes [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20606047 - 09/23/14 01:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Fuck, man, just get down with it. Genetics trump all other factors.  Nobody gets "consistency" from MS, MS is always the crapshoot its name implies.

:peace:PS




:whathesaid:

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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: nutes [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20606107 - 09/23/14 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

insanemike said:

MS. I had used the same LC with the CVG in three different tubs before trying to change h
ow I approached things. It just can't be coincidence that the first 3 tubs were disappointing and then I focus on nutrition and pow there goes the potency and it's been great ever since.




:havesomescience:

  Adding some nutes to a substandard sub will get you much further than adding any amount of unnecessary supplements to an adequate sub.  Just sayin'.

Quote:

when I spawn my colonized grain to my sub, I pack it down tight.




Ewwh.  Really excellent, not is. :yoda2:

:peace:PS




Who said I was adding unnecessary supplements? I never told you what i even used for a sub, let alone what I add to it. Don't jump to some hollow conclusions about what I do and don't do. How many in this community actually weigh every ingredient used in a grow. I weigh my jars everyday. Did you know that jars lose weight? They lose at least a few grams during a colonization period. In fact all my jars are within 1% of each other in weight. I weigh everything at every stage. I moved on to trays because they are easiest to Keep track of moisture loss. I know exactly how much water is used in every tray, from grain water content to water weight in sub. Approximately,  how much water is in each one of your tubs. If you can't remove all variables beside the one being experimented, you've already lost this battle.

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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: nutes [Re: insanemike]
    #20606130 - 09/23/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:lmafo:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: nutes [Re: cronicr]
    #20606150 - 09/23/14 01:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Did you know that jars lose weight?




Do you know why? Because water and nutes are processed into energy and the byproduct is CO2. Jesus man, do you honestly think your not the first person to try what your attempting? If there was a magic substrate that increased potency we would all be using it. Oh and. . .

Quote:

cronicr said:
:lmafo:




:whathesaid:

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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: nutes [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20606274 - 09/23/14 01:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

In fact all my jars are within 1% of each other in weight. I weigh everything at every stage. I moved on to trays because they are easiest to Keep track of moisture loss. I know exactly how much water is used in every tray, from grain water content to water weight in sub. Approximately,  how much water is in each one of your tubs. If you can't remove all variables beside the one being experimented, you've already lost this battle.





You are over thinking it. The acronym KISS comes to mind here( Keep it simple, stupid)

And as pasty said, If there was some magic formula to get higher yields and/or better potency, we'dd all be uising it by now I think


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Invisibleazur
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Re: nutes [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #20606302 - 09/23/14 01:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The magic formula is hpoo. But most here are too lazy to use it.


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