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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 13,570
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nutes
#20590288 - 09/19/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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protein starch fiber fat minerals vitamins
Which of these do mushrooms care about?
Edited by s240779 (09/19/14 08:52 PM)
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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None of that except maybe minerals, but mostly they like nitrogen
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
 
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,266
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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All of it. Just keep in mind they break down decomposing material. Try not to over think it, just follow the Grain-CVR teks and you will be fine.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Cellulose, some minerals, sugars, maybe carbs - the stuff that goes into agar, grain, and bulk nutes mostly, 'cause that's what makes 'em grow. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PurePleasure
Untrusted bacteria cultivator.



Registered: 08/29/14
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Cellulose, some minerals, sugars, maybe carbs - the stuff that goes into agar, grain, and bulk nutes mostly, 'cause that's what makes 'em grow. 
PS
CVG is nearly nuteless, I believe.
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)

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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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WHat, this?
Quote:
The CVG recipe is: 1 Brick (650grams) coco coir 2 quarts fine-medium vermiculite 1 cup(2 big handfuls) garden or horticulture gypsum 4-4.5 quarts water
My bulk formula is coir, gypsum, verm, and coffee. It multiplies the yield by the 4:1 ratio of spawn to sub, so nute-less, uhm, no. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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I've not yet had the audacity to fuck with coffee. Is it really worth the drastically increased contam risk?
--------------------
Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in
DOG FOOD AGAR
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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It's the only way I've done bulk, and I don't get contams. But I cook the mix pretty close to 200F for a couple hours, could be that at regular pasteurization temps (160) it might be a risk. 
PS
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends. I love this hobby and I love nutritional science. When my only profit is the feedback I receive , it really hurts when it's only negative. Yes mycelium can digest coir and verm but people can just as well digest a fast food burger, doesn't mean it contains optimal nutrition. Without the right nutrients living organisms can not synthesize all that is needed for digestion, immunity and reproduction. We all know that mycelium produces psychoactive alkalines during the reproductive stage. I may not know exactly what all it needs nutritionally but I figured if I provided everything, then it would not be missing anything it may need to be at it's peak performance.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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See I was wondering about different grains and nutrient profile, but I've never used anything but PF cakes and WBS. I was thinking a about throwing a small amount of horse manure next time but I'm leery about using the bucket tek. Was thinking 60:30:10 coir:verm:hpoo and soaking some grain in coffee and a bit of gypsum to balance the ph. Thinking about using spelt berries next time with the PE. One of these days when I get agar down...
--------------------
Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in
DOG FOOD AGAR
MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Do you have a tractor supply store near you?
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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Quote:
Coir has as much food for fungi as horse manure and will grow very similar crops to horse manure. In addition, potency is genetic and environmentaly determined, and is not related to choice of substrate. RR
Quote:
Coir is the equal of horse manure for growing straw and dung loving mushrooms. If you want to 'boost' the coir, add shredded straw or even pull the weeds out of your garden and shred them to use in your substrates. RR
Quote:
The more actual plant material or manure you mix in the better, and a variety of substrate materials will always outperform any one of them alone. Just don't make the mistake of thinking 'plant nutrients' will do anything for your mycelium. Plants want to grow on what the mushroom mycelium leaves behind, and mushroom mycelium likes to grow on dried and/or composted plant material. RR
Quote:
Coir may be fairly nutrient free as far as plants are concerned, but it has plenty of nutes that fungi love. I've spawned rye into pure coir, and had results as well or better than spawning to cow manure. I think most of us by now add gypsum to our substrates(if not we should) so the calcium is added at that time.
My biggest gripe with coir is the cost. It's much more expensive than other ingredients that do as well or better job. Perhaps if one lives in an area where coconuts are produced it is cheaper, but for us city dwellers that must go to the hydro or pet store, there are other substrate ingredients that are better and cheaper. After a few years of experimenting, I've purchased the last brick of coir I intend to unless I move to a desert island in the tropics. RR
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
 
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Quote:
insanemike said: Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends.
MS genetics or isolates?
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Quote:
insanemike said: Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends. I love this hobby and I love nutritional science. When my only profit is the feedback I receive , it really hurts when it's only negative. Yes mycelium can digest coir and verm but people can just as well digest a fast food burger, doesn't mean it contains optimal nutrition. Without the right nutrients living organisms can not synthesize all that is needed for digestion, immunity and reproduction. We all know that mycelium produces psychoactive alkalines during the reproductive stage. I may not know exactly what all it needs nutritionally but I figured if I provided everything, then it would not be missing anything it may need to be at it's peak performance.
I've got to agree with you man. And I've said it before with a lot of grief from others. Well balanced diet is key. Well put.
Quote:
LiquidGlass said:
Quote:
Coir has as much food for fungi as horse manure and will grow very similar crops to horse manure. In addition, potency is genetic and environmentaly determined, and is not related to choice of substrate. RR
Quote:
Coir is the equal of horse manure for growing straw and dung loving mushrooms. If you want to 'boost' the coir, add shredded straw or even pull the weeds out of your garden and shred them to use in your substrates. RR
Quote:
The more actual plant material or manure you mix in the better, and a variety of substrate materials will always outperform any one of them alone. Just don't make the mistake of thinking 'plant nutrients' will do anything for your mycelium. Plants want to grow on what the mushroom mycelium leaves behind, and mushroom mycelium likes to grow on dried and/or composted plant material. RR
Quote:
Coir may be fairly nutrient free as far as plants are concerned, but it has plenty of nutes that fungi love. I've spawned rye into pure coir, and had results as well or better than spawning to cow manure. I think most of us by now add gypsum to our substrates(if not we should) so the calcium is added at that time.
My biggest gripe with coir is the cost. It's much more expensive than other ingredients that do as well or better job. Perhaps if one lives in an area where coconuts are produced it is cheaper, but for us city dwellers that must go to the hydro or pet store, there are other substrate ingredients that are better and cheaper. After a few years of experimenting, I've purchased the last brick of coir I intend to unless I move to a desert island in the tropics. RR
And your point? RR is a wannabe like everyone else here
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Quote:
insanemike said: Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends. I love this hobby and I love nutritional science. When my only profit is the feedback I receive , it really hurts when it's only negative. Yes mycelium can digest coir and verm but people can just as well digest a fast food burger, doesn't mean it contains optimal nutrition. Without the right nutrients living organisms can not synthesize all that is needed for digestion, immunity and reproduction. We all know that mycelium produces psychoactive alkalines during the reproductive stage. I may not know exactly what all it needs nutritionally but I figured if I provided everything, then it would not be missing anything it may need to be at it's peak performance.
Not my experience at all. Just saying.
Anyway, fungi aren't plants (or animals), they need gypsum, and the coffee grounds don't hurt anything. I get better potency and fruiting off my bulk mix than off of straight cased rye, and nobody claims grains are deficient for growing. 
Yeah, well, works good. For me anyway. YMMV.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (09/20/14 11:42 AM)
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PurePleasure
Untrusted bacteria cultivator.



Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 5,893
Loc: Lost
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: nutes [Re: azur]
#20592538 - 09/20/14 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:
Quote:
insanemike said: Every time I've used coir and or vermiculite, I have had very disappointing feedback on potency. Ever since I've stopped going the "cheap route" and buckled down to give my mycelium a balanced nutritional diet, I have had extremely positive feedback from family and friends. I love this hobby and I love nutritional science. When my only profit is the feedback I receive , it really hurts when it's only negative. Yes mycelium can digest coir and verm but people can just as well digest a fast food burger, doesn't mean it contains optimal nutrition. Without the right nutrients living organisms can not synthesize all that is needed for digestion, immunity and reproduction. We all know that mycelium produces psychoactive alkalines during the reproductive stage. I may not know exactly what all it needs nutritionally but I figured if I provided everything, then it would not be missing anything it may need to be at it's peak performance.
I've got to agree with you man. And I've said it before with a lot of grief from others. Well balanced diet is key. Well put.
Quote:
LiquidGlass said:
Quote:
Coir has as much food for fungi as horse manure and will grow very similar crops to horse manure. In addition, potency is genetic and environmentaly determined, and is not related to choice of substrate. RR
Quote:
Coir is the equal of horse manure for growing straw and dung loving mushrooms. If you want to 'boost' the coir, add shredded straw or even pull the weeds out of your garden and shred them to use in your substrates. RR
Quote:
The more actual plant material or manure you mix in the better, and a variety of substrate materials will always outperform any one of them alone. Just don't make the mistake of thinking 'plant nutrients' will do anything for your mycelium. Plants want to grow on what the mushroom mycelium leaves behind, and mushroom mycelium likes to grow on dried and/or composted plant material. RR
Quote:
Coir may be fairly nutrient free as far as plants are concerned, but it has plenty of nutes that fungi love. I've spawned rye into pure coir, and had results as well or better than spawning to cow manure. I think most of us by now add gypsum to our substrates(if not we should) so the calcium is added at that time.
My biggest gripe with coir is the cost. It's much more expensive than other ingredients that do as well or better job. Perhaps if one lives in an area where coconuts are produced it is cheaper, but for us city dwellers that must go to the hydro or pet store, there are other substrate ingredients that are better and cheaper. After a few years of experimenting, I've purchased the last brick of coir I intend to unless I move to a desert island in the tropics. RR
And your point? RR is a wannabe like everyone else here
 I think coir is good for a bulk sub or casing . But nutes? Not really. I think that's why most molds can't sporulate on just coir.
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)

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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Quote:
PurePleasure said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Cellulose, some minerals, sugars, maybe carbs - the stuff that goes into agar, grain, and bulk nutes mostly, 'cause that's what makes 'em grow. 
PS
CVG is nearly nuteless, I believe.
It really depends on what organism you're talking about. Lots of things can and do digest coir, including cubensis, which means it has nutrients. It's rich in cellulose and lignin, and probably has a pretty high mineral content. For lower fungi, I'd agree that it is nearly nuteless, so skip the coir when you're buying materials for your mold farm, PurePleasure.
Manure has a much higher amount of lipids and proteins than does coir, and if fungi can break down proteins (hint: they can) they'll benefit from the increased nitrogen or even the pre-constructed amino acids, because pretty much all organisms use the same peptides. I agree with those above that a supplemented substrate will probably perform better than straight coir/verm, but it also increases the risk of contamination by making the substrate more attractive to other fungi.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Quote:
van der griegen said: For lower fungi, I'd agree that it is nearly nuteless, so skip the coir when you're buying materials for your mold farm, PurePleasure.
God-damn nut and shell there. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PurePleasure
Untrusted bacteria cultivator.



Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 5,893
Loc: Lost
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
PurePleasure said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Cellulose, some minerals, sugars, maybe carbs - the stuff that goes into agar, grain, and bulk nutes mostly, 'cause that's what makes 'em grow. 
PS
CVG is nearly nuteless, I believe.
It really depends on what organism you're talking about. Lots of things can and do digest coir, including cubensis, which means it has nutrients. It's rich in cellulose and lignin, and probably has a pretty high mineral content. For lower fungi, I'd agree that it is nearly nuteless, so skip the coir when you're buying materials for your mold farm, PurePleasure.
Manure has a much higher amount of lipids and proteins than does coir, and if fungi can break down proteins (hint: they can) they'll benefit from the increased nitrogen or even the pre-constructed amino acids, because pretty much all organisms use the same peptides. I agree with those above that a supplemented substrate will probably perform better than straight coir/verm, but it also increases the risk of contamination by making the substrate more attractive to other fungi.
Good to know.
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)

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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,899
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 3 hours, 9 minutes
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Quote:
PurePleasure said:
. But nutes? Not really. I think that's why most molds can't sporulate on just coir.
molds can easily sporulate on coir, but mold spores don't easily germinate on coir however live mold mycelium will devour it
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
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