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Invisibleafoaf
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Revised Legal System: Loser Pays
    #2057805 - 10/30/03 06:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

anyone have any input on this idea?

is the UK loser pays?

anyone from a country that uses loser
pays have any opinions?

http://my.voyager.net/~jayjo/loserpay.htm
http://www.perkel.com/pbl/loserpay.htm

just curious.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: afoaf]
    #2057996 - 10/30/03 06:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I've been a believer in loser pays for years. Something needs to be done to stop these lame lawsuits.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058029 - 10/30/03 07:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Pays court costs, or are you including all the legal fees of the winning side as well?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2058047 - 10/30/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Costs AND fees.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058049 - 10/30/03 07:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Then there should be a limit as to how much you can spend.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058060 - 10/30/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Will you better define "costs and fees"?

Like I if I sue someone and I have a good case,but I loose and they have an OJ team,I should pay?


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Edited by monoamine (10/30/03 07:17 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2058067 - 10/30/03 07:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I disagree. I feel that if someone sues, you should be able to spend whatever it takes to win. (reasonable fees related to the lawsuit only, no power lunches etc.)

If you aren't quite certain you'll win, don't sue.

The current suits against gun manufacturers comes to mind.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058080 - 10/30/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The way it is now is "The one with the most money wins", untill we can fix that a loser pays system would only exacerbate that.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058089 - 10/30/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If you aren't quite certain you'll win, don't sue.





That's a good rule of thumb,but what if the judge is a moron,your lawer comes in drunk,some guy with a ski mask steals your important legal papers (you get the idea).


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: monoamine]
    #2058095 - 10/30/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
Will you better define "costs and fees"?

Like I if I sue someone and I have a good case,but I loose and they have an OJ team,I should pay?



Well I started in my post to B_H, but here's some more.

Billable hours, court costs and fees, servers fees, travel expenses if any to the trial, travel expenses to interview witnesses, copy fees, witness fees, and more.

What should not be billed..... stays at hotels while traveling in excess of the time actually used preparing, excessive meals (perhaps a $25 limit on meals per person but only with a client, witness or expert), etc,

In other words, all and any costs strictly related to the case. No padding bills.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2058096 - 10/30/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The way it is now is "The one with the most money wins", untill we can fix that a loser pays system would only exacerbate that.





+1


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058124 - 10/30/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

OK,I'll give you a case example.

My family got sued about ten years ago by our landlord over a dispute about the swimming pool. This lady happened to have a personal grudge against us because my dad would talk out against her fanatical nazi ass at town council and stuff. I won't get into the specifics,but from an objective viewpoint we had a pretty airtight case.

Anyways,this bitch knew this,so should basically hired a team of experienced lawers to humiliate us even though should would probably be losing money even if she did indeed win, while we had some moron from the Navy that had never done a civilian case in his life.

Her good 'ol boy ass happened to have contributed to one of the judge's close relatives campaigns.

We won the case by a hair even though we were some clearly in the right it wasn't funny. If we had lost under your system,I'd probably be living in a trailer eating beenie-weinees right now.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (10/30/03 07:37 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: monoamine]
    #2058125 - 10/30/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What does that mean this week?


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2058132 - 10/30/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It means I agree in standard message board vanacular.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: monoamine]
    #2058139 - 10/30/03 07:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Shouldn't that be +5 ?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2058165 - 10/30/03 07:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think some systems dictate that the loser pays
the costs of the winner only up to their own legal
costs.

this is, of course, to keep gramma from having to
pay Union Carbide's 1 million dollar legal bill if they
manage to strong arm her po-dunk lawyer.

for example (lifted from links in topic post):

say I have a valid (for the sake of discussion) claim
against Pacific Bell for $5000 in overcharges for my
business' phone bill. I can get my cousin to represent
me for $1000. If I win, I get $4000 back, but if their
20 man team of lawyers manages to defeat the lawsuit
on a technicality or otherwise, I may be liable for
a $500,000 legal bill if the loser pays.

this creates a disincentive to making any claim, no
matter how valid because, at times, the potential loss
will GREATLY outweigh the potential benefit.

(remember, we're assuming the case is valid)

to remedy this, some suggest that the loser is only
liable for the fees up to and no more than their own
so that even if I lost, I would only be out $2000, the
cost of my lawyer and an equal amount paid to
Pacific Bell to cover their costs.

I like the idea, but lord knows, with 2/3rds of the world's
lawyers here in the states...(I think there's just shy
of a million )...there's plenty of people to fight it!

:grin: 


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OfflineTao
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: afoaf]
    #2059712 - 10/31/03 04:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

maybe there should be a an increase and acceptance of counter-suing for legal fees? thus meaning if you had a pretty crappy case you have to pay, but if you had a legitimate case and it was close and it gave way due to some unfortunate deficiency in your evidence for the case, you don't have to pay for seeking justice.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Revised Legal System: Loser Pays [Re: Tao]
    #2060156 - 10/31/03 11:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

that would be a fairly tough standard to enforce.

discretion in the hands of the biased can be dangerous.


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