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 MotorJuice
Automatic
 
Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc: 
Last seen: 8 years, 13 days
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 Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed 
#20552060 - 09/11/14 08:21 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Faint bluing at stem bases.
Edited by MotorJuice (09/11/14 08:36 AM)
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 doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Where'd you find these OP? They look a hell of a lot like Pholiotina smithii, but wait for someone else to chime in, I have only seen this species in pictures.
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MotorJuice
Automatic
Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc:
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Horse farm field in southern ontario.
Huge rains this past week followed by cool (14deg C) temps.
Hopin they active!
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doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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change your thread title to "Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed" and we'll find out in a jiffy.
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doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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I think that's exactly what they are but just wait for a more experienced IDer of this species, I am reluctant to give you the go ahead even though I can clearly see the faint bluing at the stem base.
Conocybes though, you can never be too careful.
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MotorJuice
Automatic
Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc:
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The wiki page for P. Smithii mentions that mycologists dont recommend consuming them due to them being confused with look-alikes.
What other look-alikes are not edible in this instance?
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doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Quote:
MotorJuice said:
The wiki page for P. Smithii mentions that mycologists dont recommend consuming them due to them being confused with look-alikes.
What other look-alikes are not edible in this instance?
I think the main ones are Conocybe filaris and Conocybe lactea. Someone should be in very soon to verify/debunk my ID, so hold tight...
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Anglerfish
hearing things
Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,767
Loc: Norvegr 
Last seen: 8 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed [Re: MotorJuice]
#20552157 - 09/11/14 08:54 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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They look promising. Cool find. You should keep them for microscopy, imho.
I don't know if anybody on here ever tried a bioassay, being cautious with
regards to possible misidentifications.
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MotorJuice
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Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 13 days
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Re: Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed [Re: Anglerfish]
#20552240 - 09/11/14 09:19 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bluing becoming more pronounced
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Byrain
Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Quote:
doctorghosty said:
change your thread title to "Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed" and we'll find out in a jiffy.
Please don't mislead the op, he will need microscopic examination to know for sure, the best we can say for now is that he likely has a active Pholiotina species which someone should study closer.
Quote:
doctorghosty said:I think the main ones are Conocybe filaris and Conocybe lactea. Someone should be in very soon to verify/debunk my ID, so hold tight...
Conocybe filaris is Pholiotina rugosa now and not the only annulate Pholiotina by a long shot, C. lactea is all white and even a noob probably wouldn't confuse them. I'd be more worried about confusing it with one of the non-annulate Pholiotina, one of the numerous brown Conocybe, or possibly a Galerina. Also, microscopy would be really cool to confirm genus and make sure we aren't dealing with a bluing Conocybe or Galerina.
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doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Id request [Re: Byrain]
#20552291 - 09/11/14 09:31 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said:
Quote:
doctorghosty said:
change your thread title to "Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed" and we'll find out in a jiffy.
Please don't mislead the op, he will need microscopic examination to know for sure, the best we can say for now is that he likely has a active Pholiotina species which someone should study closer.
Quote:
doctorghosty said:I think the main ones are Conocybe filaris and Conocybe lactea. Someone should be in very soon to verify/debunk my ID, so hold tight...
Conocybe filaris is Pholiotina rugosa now and not the only annulate Pholiotina by a long shot, C. lactea is all white and even a noob probably wouldn't confuse them. I'd be more worried about confusing it with one of the non-annulate Pholiotina, one of the numerous brown Conocybe, or possibly a Galerina. Also, microscopy would be really cool to confirm genus and make sure we aren't dealing with a bluing Conocybe or Galerina.
That's my bad, I was just hoping to get some more qualified eyes on this... didn't mean to contribute to confirmation bias.
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Byrain
Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Maybe with more distribution data we can start applying names, but unfortunately no one here really knows Bolbitiaceae well enough... It might be as simple as P. cyanopus vs P. smithii, but it'd be a lot cooler to know for sure. The op should really dry, label and send the whole collection to someone willing to help expand the study of these things. I'm tempted, but I already have so much on my plate idk if I could do it soon. I personally don't suggest anyone eat unidentified Pholiotina bluing or not since there are dangerous species in the same genus and other similar looking genera.
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA 
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Re: Id request [Re: Byrain]
#20552611 - 09/11/14 10:57 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pholiotina smithii seems likely.
I dont know, the thicker stipe, with striations along the apex as well as a darker pileus which as striations which go more than half way up the pileus stopping at the very apex. I be Psylosymon agrees. nut obviously micro would help a lot!
ive done a bit of micro and macro work on both the species cyanopus and smithii. Im just considering these species, no idea if theres some odd species out there which is really different.
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~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________  "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
    
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MotorJuice
Automatic
Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 13 days
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Re: Id request [Re: Joust]
#20553162 - 09/11/14 01:24 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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A few more pics.
 
Taking spore prints now- microscopy shots soon.
Edited by MotorJuice (09/11/14 01:25 PM)
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doctorghosty
is the name of me
Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Quote:
MotorJuice said:
A few more pics.
Taking spore prints now- microscopy shots soon.
Awesome, can't wait to see what you come up with!
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knarkkorven
Entheoholic
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,709
Loc: Sweden 
Last seen: 22 days, 1 hour
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Yes! Yes! Yes!
Looks awesome!
Quote:
the best we can say for now is that he likely has a active Pholiotina species
I agree to this!
But we can all make a guess and as another picker of the active Pholiotinas, I think this is P. cyanopus!
Edited by knarkkorven (09/12/14 02:03 AM)
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Quote:
knarkkorven said:
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Looks awesome!
Quote:
the best we can say for now is that he likely has a active Pholiotina species
I agree to this!
But we can all make a guess and as another picker of the active Pholiotinas, I think this is C. cyanopus!
ooh its on!
the new photos look like cyanopus haha except that big stipe.
You and byrain are right, needs micro
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~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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AIRDOG
Registered: 10/16/99
Posts: 3,493
Loc: world's shroom capital
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Re: Id request [Re: Joust]
#20554301 - 09/11/14 06:14 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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has anyone consumed the active pholiotina??? as far as i know they have psilocybin but who says they dont have the deadly toxins their relatives have??'
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MotorJuice
Automatic
Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 13 days
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Re: Id request [Re: AIRDOG]
#20554507 - 09/11/14 06:55 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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The patch is very plentiful and gathering seems endless!
Another thing I noticed today is that the mycelium was thick and almost rhizomorphic throughout the composting woodchip substrate it had colonized.
Everything I'm reading on potency is exciting although it'll have to wait until all possibilities can be ruled out.
The few hundred specimens I collected today will by dried and set aside, unfortunately I am without a microscope unlike previously thought 
Some of these will have to go to another member for further analysis.
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xfsketch
Conky
Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 4,982
Loc: O-He-Ho
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Very interesting. Something like this would have to be sent out for microscopy Im sure. Its not worth risking your life over. Wicked finds OP!
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Might Take Some Time, But I Will Find It! Whatever it is. Im a determined person!
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Re: Id request [Re: Joust]
#20715291 - 10/17/14 11:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pholiotina smithii,
The larger spores, capitate cystidia, and striated stipe give it away pretty well, though it took about 10 sections on fully prepared slides to find really what i was looking for, this micro is not great by any means, but i am switching over to other better equipment this weekend
http://mushroomobserver.org/183556
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~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
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Re: Id request [Re: Joust]
#20719414 - 10/18/14 08:51 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'd say cyanopus given the field habitat.
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Quote:
psylosymonreturns said:
I'd say cyanopus given the field habitat.
what about the larger spores and subcapitate cystidia which arent present in cyanopus?
I thought about cyanopus, but i think smithii fits a lot better, even given the field habitat. 
Also the papers im reading note that it mostly occurs in bogs and the more chipped bog setting than the grass on of cyanopus, however both can be found in grass and bog/chipped substrates. Three of the materials examined for Ph. smithii are from the same type of grass habitat, yet most of the collections studied in that paper that were Ph. smithii were found in that bog woodchip setting.
Blueing in Conocybe, Psilocybe, and a Stropharia Species and the Detection of Psilocybin
PS.
Pileipellis a hymeniform layer.
someone should find this in europe...
Type species: Pholiotina aeruginosa (ROMAGN.) M. M. MOSER.
Characters: Basidiocarp mycenoid, with psilocybin. Pileus hygrophanous, moist stri- ate, smooth, especially in centre with blue, pale greyish blue to dark blue colours, veil absent. Stipe whitish, slightly pruinose, base never blueing. Spores medium, thin- walled, smooth, with germ-pore. Cheilocystidia lageniform to fusiform. Pileocystidia present. Forest soil, preferably in wet forests, meadows.
--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"
Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: Id request [Re: Joust]
#20719707 - 10/18/14 10:45 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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footbagbrown
luigi main
Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 510
Loc: Wa
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed [Re: MotorJuice]
#20973628 - 12/14/14 12:50 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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cyanopus??
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The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. -Albert Einstein
"I'm in a hurry to get things done
Oh I rush and rush until life's no fun
All I really gotta do is live and die
But I'm in a hurry and don't know why."- Alabama
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Re: Pholiotina smithii? confirmation needed [Re: footbagbrown]
#20974422 - 12/14/14 09:18 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Im still confident it is P. smithii
--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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