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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Countries Qualified for Green Cards
    #2054138 - 10/29/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.us-immigration.com/dv_lottery/qualifying.html

Look for Mexico on that list. Can't find it? That's cuz it's not there. Now I ask you: If it's impossible for them to legally immigrate, can you really blame them for wanting to come here illegally?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054157 - 10/29/03 06:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Natives of Canada and Mexico do not qualify for this year's diversity program.



Perhaps that's because allowing more to enter in addition to those already here wouldn't add to the "diversity" at all.

I guess the desire for forced "diversity" just jumped up and bit them on the ass.

There should be NO legal immigration for a 1 year period while we round up the illegals and ship them out.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2054168 - 10/29/03 06:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There should be NO legal immigration for a 1 year period while we round up the illegals and ship them out.



What if they have children born in the U.S.?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054181 - 10/29/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What if they have children born in the U.S.?



While I know the law considers the children of illegals born here to be citizens, I think that law should be changed. Only children of citizens should be granted citizenship automatically.

In the meantime, ship them out with the parents unless the parents are willing to either give them up for adoption or sign them over to a legal guardian.

Either way the parents must go.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2054186 - 10/29/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Not too fond of Mexicans, are ya?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054205 - 10/29/03 06:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not too fond of Mexicans, are ya?



Not too fond of the written word are ya?

Read the post again, see if you can find where I even used the word Mexican. I feel the same about ALL who enter this country illegally.

Try and give your next response to me a little thought before saying something so completely stupid.

Is your desire to one-up or poke at me so strong you can't even remain factual? I enjoy a good jab as well as anyone so I can't fault you there, but a little thought, combined with accuracy, would at least make you appear to have the ability to reason.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2054218 - 10/29/03 06:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Alright. Here's a more thorough response:

If you're going to deport those whose parents aren't US citizens, what about grandparents? Where do you draw the line? In a sense, if you're not Native American(as in Cherokee, Navajo, etc.) then your ancestors came here illegally(they took the land from the Native Americans). So I ask again, where do you draw the line?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054242 - 10/29/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A reasonable question.

The Native American angle is weak. There were no entry requirements at the time. Seeing as we can't go back in time though it's pointless to argue. Even the Native Americans may not have been the first. (ie: the land bridge that supposedly existed at one time between Alaska and the former Soviet Union)

As for the current period of time.... I'll state this in a way which should leave no confusion.

If someone is here illegally, no matter the race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, color, height, weight, hair or eye color, political beliefs, country of origin, or any other factor, they should be thrown out as quickly as possible. Every last one of them. Those thrown out should be forever denied the opportunity to return.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2054278 - 10/29/03 07:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If someone is here illegally, no matter the race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, color, height, weight, hair or eye color, political beliefs, country of origin, or any other factor, they should be thrown out as quickly as possible. Every last one of them. Those thrown out should be forever denied the opportunity to return.



Never allowed to return? Seems a bit harsh to me, especially considering that many illegals actually CONTRIBUTE to the economy, rather than draining it as so many conservatives like to believe. You seem to have some personal grudge against these people that goes far beyond simple legal justice.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying we should let them stay, but at least try to understand their plight. Many of them come from conditions worse than we can imagine, and are willing to work for less than minimum wage and live in shitty neighborhoods, facing all kinds of hardships because it's still better than what they have going for them back home. Very few of them go on welfare, and those that do usually don't stay on it for long. It seems a bit harsh to me to say that such people should never be allowed back if caught. We could use such a work ethic ourselves.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054399 - 10/29/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Never allowed to return?



Never.


Quote:

Seems a bit harsh to me



:lol: I'd have been very surprised if it didn't.  :wink:

Edit: After some more thought, you're right. Offer a six month period to leave on their own, after that.... round them up, ship them out. If they leave on their own, allow them to apply after they have physically left the country. If they then pass all the requirements give them priority on the approval list.


Quote:

especially considering that many illegals actually CONTRIBUTE to the economy, rather than draining it as so many conservatives like to believe.



Prove it. With some type of official stats, not those from type of immigrant group. I've read exactly the opposite.


Quote:

You seem to have some personal grudge against these people that goes far beyond simple legal justice.



Didn't we speak of you making assuptions about me? I have no grudge against anyone except for liars.


Quote:

but at least try to understand their plight.



I understand, I simply don't care. I have no problem with immigrants in general, merely those who's very first act here is a crime.


Quote:

Very few of them go on welfare



Again, prove it. I've read the opposite and illegals shouldn't be able to receive ANY type of benefits. That includes medical treatment.


Quote:

We could use such a work ethic ourselves. 



That I can't argue with. It seems many immigrants have a better work ethic than many Americans. I've known quite a few in my business dealings (none illegal AS FAR AS I know) and I've always been impressed by how hard many of them work. Coming from the NYC/NJ area, I know a bunch.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/29/03 08:46 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2054427 - 10/29/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

From todays Philadelphia Enquirer, hardly a conservative source of news....





Illegal immigration an issue too pricey to ignore

Not enforcing the nation's immigration laws has become a public policy, and a highly unfair one. In turning a blind eye to illegal immigration, Congress and the President subsidize high-income lawbreakers by providing cheap labor. The costs of illegal immigration, meanwhile, are broadly shared, with the heaviest loads borne by our poorest people.

Promoters of open borders often argue that illegal immigrants pay taxes and take very little in the way of public services. That's simply untrue. An estimated half to a third of illegal aliens work off the books and pay no income tax. Those who do tend to earn very low incomes, and therefore pay little tax.

Illegal immigrants do use expensive public services. Federal law requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up. And a 1982 Supreme Court ruling says that the children of illegal immigrants are entitled to public education.

Much of California's current economic crisis can be tied to its enormous low-income population, swelled by poor immigrants. Harvard economist George Borjas found that providing services to immigrants (both legal and illegal) during the mid-1990s cost the average household of native-born Californians $1,200 a year.

The federal government is charged with applying the nation's immigration laws. But it has little financial incentive to do so, since it pays only about 7 percent of the cost of schooling. States provide an average 51 percent of education funding, leaving local governments with the remaining 42 percent.

In some states, however, the local burden is far greater. In New Jersey, for example, towns and cities pay on average 59 percent of schooling costs - largely out of local property taxes.

One can thus sympathize with the plight of David Verducci, who as public school superintendent in Fairview, N.J., has to stretch scarce resources. Verducci discovered last year that two women, illegal immigrants born in El Salvador, had moved into town and enrolled five children (not all of them theirs) into the schools. Verducci ordered the children out and was soon pilloried by immigration lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union. A state education official told him to readmit them.

Let's make a rough estimate of what the people of Fairview might pay for failed U.S. immigration policy. New Jersey spends an average $10,000 a year per student, so five children in school for 10 years costs at least $500,000. On the basis of statewide averages, Fairview's taxpayers would have to provide nearly $300,000 of that total.

This is a very expensive proposition for towns and cities that attract many illegal immigrants. Because such places tend to have large low-income populations to start with, you have a situation in which the poor disproportionately subsidize the families of illegal immigrants.

Who benefits the most? Rich communities that have pretty much zoned low-income people out of their school districts. They pay little for services used by illegal immigrants but benefit from the cheap labor that cuts their lawns, cleans their houses and works in their factories.

Though 85 percent of Americans characterize illegal immigration as a "serious problem," most of our national leadership ignores it. News stories involving immigrants no longer distinguish between people who are here legally and those who are not. They're all "newcomers" in the chirpy parlance of American journalism.

The ruling that American municipalities must educate the children of illegal immigrants does make some sense. We don't want a population of totally uneducated people in our midst. But we don't have to accept a situation in which their undocumented parents can openly hold jobs and school districts can't inquire into their immigration status.

Congress and the President owe the public some accountability. They can either enforce the immigration laws or pick up the billions in expenses that their failure to do so drops onto local governments. If they determine that the nation truly faces a labor shortage, then they can increase legal immigration.

And they should honestly admit who wins and who loses in an economy that tolerates illegal immigration. The double losers are poor people, both the native-born and legal immigrants. They receive lower wages because of the unfair competition, and they support the illegal population through taxes or degraded public services. The winners, by and large, are the well-to-do citizens who tend to want everyone's labor - except for their own - to be cheap.





Edit: forgot the link.


Here it is.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/29/03 08:00 PM)


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2056190 - 10/30/03 04:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There should be NO legal immigration for a 1 year period while we round up the illegals and ship them out.




That's about as feasible as getting rid of illegal drugs.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: monoamine]
    #2056200 - 10/30/03 04:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yup. It's funny how some people who complain about illegal immigrants being a drain on the economy would advocate such extreme measures to get rid of them which would cost way more money than it would save.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2056315 - 10/30/03 06:02 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, there's nothing funny about it. Come down off your high horse for a moment and consider this.....

Do you truly believe that there would be no-one to fill the jobs these people take? Work must still be done, food must still be grown. All that would happen is that the offered wages would be slowly raised until people took the jobs. There would be a period of flux but things always reach a balance.

The work would get done, the illegals would not be "exploited", wages would rise, life would go on.

And getting rid of the bulk, while not cheap, would not be a recurring expense like free medical care is. There would be major expense the first year or two, with much lower expenses to follow when the herd had been thinned.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to back up your assertion that illegals are not a drain.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2056320 - 10/30/03 06:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

And getting rid of the bulk, while not cheap, would not be a recurring expense like free medical care is. There would be major expense the first year or two, with much lower expenses to follow when the herd had been thinned.



I could see someone making the same argument with drugs. Speaking of which, did you know that people-smuggling has become an even bigger business along the border than drug-smuggling? Supply and demand, my friend. As long as people want to seek a better life here in the U.S., they'll find ways to achieve that.

Quote:

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to back up your assertion that illegals are not a drain.



I never said they weren't a drain. I said that MANY(not all) contribute to the economy by getting jobs and spending the money here in the U.S.(of course, those that send the money back home would be more of a drain). Sorry if I confused you.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2056331 - 10/30/03 06:18 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm aware people would still make it in. Are you saying unless something can be done with 100% sucess then it shouldn't be done? For that would rule out a great many things such as feeding the poor.

We would have to do a much better job securing the borders which would also have the effect of raising employment levels.

I'm seeing no negatives to throwing the criminals out other than slightly higher prices. Since I believe in the market setting prices anyway, that's not a completely bad thing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2056462 - 10/30/03 09:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'm seeing no negatives to throwing the criminals out other than slightly higher prices. Since I believe in the market setting prices anyway, that's not a completely bad thing.



I'm all for keeping illegals out, but how much of our resources are you willing to invest in this pursuit? At a certain point it becomes more costly to keep them out than to let them stay.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2057917 - 10/30/03 06:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

As I said earlier, I only see a large (relativly speaking) cost the first few years while things are sorted out.

I believe the cost of keeping them out will be more than offset by increased employment for citizens and by the reduced drain on both state and federal budgets.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: silversoul7]
    #2057938 - 10/30/03 06:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Ship em home.

No more H1B or L1 Visas.

Fuck outsourcing.

Im sick of the.. they are doing the shit jobs we dont want to do defense. That is crap, you would be surprised at what people who are unemployed for months will do to stay afloat for fair wages. That will never happen when illegals are here working for a fraction of that and paying no taxes to our government.. only taking from it.

We have problems at home at the moment and until we get them straightened out, other countries can fend for themselves.


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: Countries Qualified for Green Cards [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2057956 - 10/30/03 06:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think that giving them the 6 month option is best, and would be pretty cost effective. Those that do leave, then apply for LEGAL re-entry, would be the ones that we would want here anyway (law abiding citizens). I think that the majority o fillegals would do this, especially if the punishment was permanent deportation with no chance of coming backin.

American born children of illegals ? Pack your bags. Out the door you go. Build a HUGE fence onthe southern border, have it patroled by armed guards.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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