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OfflineDeviate
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Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer
    #20536318 - 09/08/14 12:57 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

It's quite simple really, it's based on two factors. Number one, it satifies the intellect's inherent need to do something and 2) no one can pray Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, unless in the holy spirit. When this is prayed continueously one becomes accustomed to abiding in the Spirit and it gradually becomes easier to abide in the Spirit and harder to abide in the egoic mind. In this way, one can grow in peace and love and there is much beauty and wonder. In fact, St. Paul lists the fruits of the Spirit somewhere in his letters if anyone is curious. The eogic mind on the other hand, is always gauging the situation, labeling it, usually either good or bad and then feeling accordingly.

Most people are so attached to their egoic identities that giving them up would be unthinkable to them, this is why it is sometimes necessary for long training in prayer and continued re-reading of the scriptures and words of the saints. This is why is has been said, that religions pamper the soul, making it ready for the revelation of what is always already present.

Edited by Deviate (09/08/14 12:57 AM)

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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20536342 - 09/08/14 01:07 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Abiding by the spirit. I think you understand.

I follow a different path that involves calm abiding. I think the term is Shamatha. I think you follow the same way with different terms and ways to reach calm abiding.

I have a friend who told me the Holy Spirit is exactly like the experience I describe to him.


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The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20536565 - 09/08/14 04:06 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that if the mind has the idea it has got to do something then give it something good to do, hold to one thought and the other thoughts lose power, the thoughts can be a prayer, a koan, a question, some statement that you have faith is true, any thoughts that if held onto reduce the amount of other thoughts you are holding onto, no action will lead to true freedom but right action paves the way


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Chronic7]
    #20536691 - 09/08/14 06:23 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah that is the frustrating part but according to Ramana Maharshi, Bakti is good even if it is not realization.

Studying the Philokalia last night, I came across a part that said it was a mistake not to value spiritual knowledge even if was imperfect knowledge.

Listening to Tony Parsons, he makes it sound like it's either liberation or bust. As a result of this, I wasn't thankful for the Light God has given to me, because I felt my knowledge being imperfect, was wortheless. Even Ramana Maharshi has said, of what use is imperfect knowledge?

But when I read this in the Philokalia and started feeling thankful for whatever spiritual insight the good Lord has graced me with, rather than sitting around waiting for liberation to dawn, I felt a profound shift take place.

And to other guy, yeah it is a calm abiding.

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20536825 - 09/08/14 07:54 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah i find being grateful for where i am rather than thinking about where i could be, helps more than thinking about striving to obtain 'perfect enlightenment' or whatever the current dangling carrot is

It is here, it is here, thankyou


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Chronic7]
    #20536922 - 09/08/14 08:48 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

that reminds me of this post on facebook i just came across:

Quote:

Life with The Beloved

The things that have ones so enamored—the perfect love, the perfect child, the perfect income, the perfect house and job and town to live in—are the very things that keep so many from God. Humanity has become so brainwashed by what the collective whole says are the ideals and attainments for which to strive. If they are an end, in and of themselves, each one of those items is a false god placed before your Lord God and Creator.

The same dynamic can be found in the New Age movement. The pursuit of enlightenment, ascension, bi-location, teleportation, etc. are all pursuits of false gods. They are attachments and distractions of the mind. Desires are acts of Separation. Inherent in one's desire for anything is the belief that one lacks something and, therefore, needs something. Thus, desire places an object of pursuit before God which, in turn, distances one even further from God.

Desire not the fruits of life with God. Desire, instead, life with God.

Life with The Beloved is not about enlightenment. It is about falling so completely in love with Creation that you are in Oneness with everything in any given moment. Then the next moment comes and you fall in love all over again. What if it is God's will that you do not attain enlightenment in this embodiment? Does that mean you fail? No. The only desire worth having is to become consumed by God's love. Place no conditions upon what that looks like. God is love. Thus, yearn to know love, to feel love, to express love, and to become love—beyond limit. If that means enlightenment, then accept it. If it means being married, single, gay, straight, rich, poor, with or without kids, famous or unknown, accept that too. It does not matter. Those titles, positions, and attributes are simply what God needs to play this game of chess with your lives. Furthermore, all those attainments of the material world are gone forever in the instant you transit your physical form, from a life whose entirety only amounts to one blink of your soul's eternal eye.

God does not need six billion people enlightened in this decade, or in this century for that matter. God needs a surrendered, willing heart that says, "Use me according to Thy will." There are countless people who are not enlightened Masters, yet live so completely in rapture with God, and it blesses everything they do. I have seen many working in hotels and restaurants. The love I see oozing out of them almost brings me to tears. Some of them are going home to screaming children, no money, and fifteen people living in a one-room box of a house with no windows; yet, they walk in grace because they feel the love of God constantly in their hearts. They see it, and insist on seeing it, in every single thing they do. That is the magic which helps them transcend their circumstance. Many of them have never read a book on ascension and might think enlightenment is what happens when you flip the light switch on a wall. Do you think it matters? Do you think they care? Their focus is on God, not on His gifts.

Love is what everyone is seeking. The irony is that all have the power to have it in any moment. Many just do not give themselves permission, partly because they do not believe that they can have it. Most have been taught that life is about having to attain something. Others believe that, once they become enlightened, then they will have that love. But it is the other way around. It is the love which leads one into enlightenment.

No moment lives beyond the confines of itself. All that matters is to fill each moment with the highest amount of love you can muster, then ache to give even more. It is in these moments that you are in Oneness. It is in these moments that you are living life with The Beloved.

- Louix Dor Dempriey




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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: deff]
    #20537107 - 09/08/14 10:08 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I like it, uh i mean i love it :wink:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Chronic7]
    #20537145 - 09/08/14 10:26 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

:smile: :sun:


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20537404 - 09/08/14 11:53 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

It's wild to me that you are able to separate yourself from "most people" and their attachments as you regurgitate the same problems/solutions you are going through every other week.

If these practices you preach truly were as impactful as you claim, wouldn't you be more at peace with yourself?

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: cez]
    #20537782 - 09/08/14 01:13 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
It's wild to me that you are able to separate yourself from "most people" and their attachments as you regurgitate the same problems/solutions you are going through every other week.

If these practices you preach truly were as impactful as you claim, wouldn't you be more at peace with yourself?





Actually I was including myself in with "most people". Notice I said:


Most people are so attached to their egoic identities that giving them up would be unthinkable to them, this is why it is sometimes necessary for long training in prayer and continued re-reading of the scriptures and words of the saints. This is why is has been said, that religions pamper the soul, making it ready for the revelation of what is always already present.


That is what I have been doing, and still my knowledge is far from perfect. The sages teach that there are some who realize the truth as soon as they hear it preached. Others, it takes a little effort and still others, it takes years of effort. Clearly, I fall into the latter category.

I am "more at peace with myself" in many ways, in other ways, my spiritual insights cause a greater inner turmoil. That's all normal as far as I am concerned, for "we must endure many hardships in order to enter the Kingdom of God" Acts 14:22.

You see, the spiritual path ends in glory but it's not necessarily like that all along the way. Assuming that someone should be at peace with themself because they do spiritual practice is rather silly imo.

Edited by Deviate (09/08/14 01:14 PM)

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Invisiblecez
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20538501 - 09/08/14 03:34 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You spoke as if you know, and admittedly you do not know. You're just hoping all these spiritual practices will give way to some type of repose.

Perhaps pursuing the opposite of what you deem spiritual is what you need.  :shrug:
Prayers and all that stuff is great for the mind and building a sense of Self but it's only gonna get you so far..Letting go and letting it all happen without thought of your spirituality IMO is the epitome of spiritual practice.

That's what the fathers, and mothers, teach of IMO.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: cez] * 1
    #20538805 - 09/08/14 04:26 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Prayers and all that stuff is great for the mind and building a sense of Self but it's only gonna get you so far..Letting go and letting it all happen without thought of your spirituality IMO is the epitome of spiritual practice.




I personally think he should forget about all that and focus on becoming a werewolf.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisiblecez
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: deCypher]
    #20538938 - 09/08/14 04:55 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

:lol::thumbup:

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Offlinemasterkorin
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20540601 - 09/08/14 09:55 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

i agree to your post. there are many people that do things like attend church without making a conscious effort to reach a deeper level of spirituality but to lose attachment with the self which imo is also the part of us that causes all suffering is painful. I don't believe in criticizing any spiritual practice unless it involves something harmful to others.


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"It was true that I didn’t have much ambition, but there ought to be a place for people without ambition, I mean a better place than the one usually reserved. How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?" -Bukowski

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Offlinemasterkorin
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: masterkorin]
    #20540609 - 09/08/14 09:56 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

but i also applaud you for not giving into the stereotype that all trippers are people that think of themselves as god's and believe in no outside entity to govern themselves.


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"It was true that I didn’t have much ambition, but there ought to be a place for people without ambition, I mean a better place than the one usually reserved. How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?" -Bukowski

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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: cez]
    #20541181 - 09/09/14 12:08 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
You spoke as if you know, and admittedly you do not know. You're just hoping all these spiritual practices will give way to some type of repose.

Perhaps pursuing the opposite of what you deem spiritual is what you need.  :shrug:
Prayers and all that stuff is great for the mind and building a sense of Self but it's only gonna get you so far..Letting go and letting it all happen without thought of your spirituality IMO is the epitome of spiritual practice.

That's what the fathers, and mothers, teach of IMO.




I believe that people who genuinely spend time exploring their mind come to similar conclusions; they span across multiple practices. Practices are manipulated and pervertered. Whatever it is, "becoming one with the infinite," "becoming one with God", or whatever - there are these parallels that transcend the word barrier of practices. Whatever the word they choose to describe the scenario, it doesn't do it justice because it is a deep understanding of something within the mind that is inexplicable. people become consumed by believing instead of knowing. When people put it into words the people who believe pervert the message. That's why I feel like a lot of the metaphysical stuff in religion isn't of concern. I think we can find a true happiness in life that transcends emotions. Whatever you want to call that inner peace and everything it embodies won't do it justice.


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Edited by LittleDaddy (09/09/14 12:37 AM)

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: Deviate]
    #20541239 - 09/09/14 12:33 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer




Imho it's due to stigmatization of disorders of the brain, so yah know, when a person has mental health issues, they're "fighting demons" and it's legitimate for a totally unqualified "father" to tell them to go say a prayer over and over forever.  Nobody would consult a father if they had a disorder with their pancreas such as diabetes...  Humanity is still stupid and mentally living in medieval times.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #20541242 - 09/09/14 12:34 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yeah?  Without the fathers you'd still be dealing with werewolves.  And where are they now?  Hmmm?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #20541253 - 09/09/14 12:39 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

In the monastery of course.



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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why the fathers teach we must always say the Jesus prayer [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #20541273 - 09/09/14 12:45 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I'm impressed.  Were you previously familiar with The Sacred Heart of Wolfman Jesus or did Google Search enlighten your horizons?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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