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Invisibletr20josh
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First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! *UPDATED* Mycelium!
    #20536094 - 09/07/14 11:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys/gals,

I haven't been an active member on the Shroomery much lately, but I've recently decided to attempt a bulk grow.  I've had a few (relatively) successful PF Tek runs, one about four years ago and my most recent one is currently in progress.  Out of 9 MS Mazapatec and 9 MS PE, I've harvested a little over an ounce.  They're still pumping out mushrooms, but honestly I'm tired of doing so much work for so little yield.  So I'm moving onto bulk.

I was looking for rye berries, but had trouble finding them.  I ended up settling on Bob's Red Mill brand sorghum.  I read that it should work just fine, and it happened to be on clearance for $1.60 a bag.  I prepared my sorghum using this tek:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080#17252080

1)I rinsed the sorghum a couple of times (came out clear the first time but did it again for good measure, I think this was because it is food safe) and strained out the floaters.

2)I then soaked the sorghum with a bit of gypsum in water and fresh coffee for 18 hours. 

3)Afterwards, I heated the mixture until just when it started simmering, then removed it from heat.  I stirred occasionally, but not enough because some of the grains in the bottom were cooked to mush.  This was discarded, but it smelled delicious.

4) I strained the mixture through a mesh colander and allowed to dry for about 45 minutes, shaking every 10-15 minutes.

5)  The grain now being mostly dry to the touch and leaving no moisture when left on a paper towel for ten seconds, I loaded it into wide mouth quart jars, topped with the lid, then a layer of tyvek, then the ring, covered with foil, and PC'd at 15psi for 90 minutes.

Here is a photo after the PC had depressurized, been allowed to cool for about 10 minutes, then jars shaken to avoid clumping:



How does this look?  I would think the condensation inside the jar to be normal, since these jars were still hot when I took this picture, but is it excessive?  The grains are not clumpy and appear to be significantly swollen (maybe by about 50%) when compared to the unprocessed grains still in the bag.  The grains appear mostly dry, save for the condensation inside the jar.  If this looks unusable, I would rather start over than waste spores because I'm bullheaded and won't take the advice of the forum I've learned so much from!

--------------------------------

*UPDATE*

Well I went ahead and used the quart jars I had made up in the first place, since only one person was saying don't use them and everyone else said they were fine.  After a couple days, the grains in the jars looked completely fine.  I inoculated about ten days ago and just wanted to share where they're at.





As far as I can tell, these are colonizing exactly the way they should be.  Should be ready for a shake in a few days, no?

Edited by tr20josh (09/21/14 07:30 AM)

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OfflinePsiloBeast
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20536175 - 09/07/14 11:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Wayy too much moisture in that jar my friend because you skipped the drying part for your grains!

After your soak yours supposed to drain/dry your grains quite a bit so the majority of the moisture content is what's inside the grain and not on the outside. I'm not sure what sohgrum is either but I it's anything like bird seed you should skip the simmer and just soak and drain thoroughly. Net time try wild bird seed, oats, or rye. :super:

Also when you say 9 of each do you mean half pint jars or pint jars? Cause if so that yield was verrry low, even for cakes.


--------------------
Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild animal or a god...
                                    -Aristotle
              A COMPLETE GROW LOG (ATL# 7)
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Water Extraction Tek,Frank's Monotub Tek ,Do What He Does...

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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: PsiloBeast]
    #20536244 - 09/08/14 12:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'll try again with some more sorghum before moving to another substrate.  Sorghum is just a type of grain.  I did run the grains through a mesh colander until they felt dry on the outside and left no moisture on a paper towel, but apparently this wasn't long enough.  Since I have not inoculated, could I open the jars, dry the grain, and PC again?

And they were half pints.  None of the 9 PE cakes ever pinned, all that has pinned so far has been the Mazapatec.  I didn't go into that because I didn't want to belabor the thread with excessive irrelevant information.  I believe my humidity is too low because my SGFC is too large and I either a) do not have enough perlite or b) the perlite is not moist enough.  In any case, only 9 cakes have fruited and I've yielded about 30g, with more pins forming every day.  None of the cakes seem to want to pin at the same time.  When it's all said and done, I'll probably average about 5g per cake that actually fruits if the PE never do anything.

The jars were also the taller jelly jars, rather than the shorter wide mouth half pints.  They were all that were available in my area.  They don't tend to yield as much as the proper jars do.

Regardless of my results with this particular grow, I'm tired of the intense amount of effort that goes into the PF tek.  Preparing the substrate, inoculating four holes per jar (with 20 jars, that's 80 inoculations! yuck), birthing, dunking, and rolling up to 20 cakes at a time, constant fanning and misting...  All for (usually) small fruits and low yields.

I had one jar out of 20 contaminate (without a PC at the time), and one jar that just never colonized or grew mold or anything.  After six weeks, it still looks like it did the day I took I filled it with substrate.

I understand the basics and importance of sterile procedure, the life cycle of the mushroom, and the necessary conditions for fruiting (even if I didn't exactly provide them this time).  I feel the logical next step for me is to move on to bulk - and learning how to prep grain is the first part of that.  So I do very much appreciate your feedback, and I'll try again tomorrow.  :thanx:

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OfflinePsiloBeast
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20536273 - 09/08/14 12:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

People have great yields with PF tek do you're not doing something right :lol: no offense. PF tek is the easiest way to procure fruits IMO.

Yeah there is just wayyyy to much moisture in there. Let it dry for upwards of 2 hours after your soak my friend.

Btw you are very long winded :laugh2:


--------------------
Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild animal or a god...
                                    -Aristotle
              A COMPLETE GROW LOG (ATL# 7)
                          BEAST STYLE LINKS
Water Extraction Tek,Frank's Monotub Tek ,Do What He Does...

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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: PsiloBeast]
    #20536690 - 09/08/14 06:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PsiloBeast said:
People have great yields with PF tek do you're not doing something right :lol: no offense. PF tek is the easiest way to procure fruits IMO.




That's fine.  I'm not looking to correct my PF Tek.  I'm looking to move on to bulk.  Some people do get decent yields out of PF Tek but the work:yield ratio is far too low for my taste.  I've personally had much better yields from PF than I'm getting out of this current run, so I know what PF Tek can do.

Quote:

PsiloBeast said:
Yeah there is just wayyyy to much moisture in there. Let it dry for upwards of 2 hours after your soak my friend.




I allowed to dry for 45 minutes as per the tek I posted, but evidently it was not enough.  You still didn't answer - since I have not yet inoculated, can I take out the grains I've already PC'd, dry them out some more, and then re-PC them?

Quote:

PsiloBeast said:
Btw you are very long winded :laugh2:




Fact.

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OfflineMike1230
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20536852 - 09/08/14 08:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Those will dry out. It's just cuz u said u took em out still warm. In 2 days those will be fine.
I've used Foomans prep many times and he doesn't dry his much at all. Those jars are fine.


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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: Mike1230]
    #20536867 - 09/08/14 08:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I actually just came and took a look at them. They've dried out a lot since they cooled. There is very little water in between the grains and none are clumping at all. I'll try to get a picture later but I think they might actually be ok.

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OfflineMike1230
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20536879 - 09/08/14 08:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If u take em out right when the pressure in the PC is at 0 that will happen a lot. Wait til the PC is cool to take the jars out and that won't happen as much. But regardless those jars will be totally dry tomorrow


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Offlinemore4u2c
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: Mike1230]
    #20537205 - 09/08/14 10:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I've had the same looking jars with my wbs tek and it was from me removing them from the pc too soon but after a day it was all good I wouldn't worry too much. I am a total noob never done any shroom growing at all and I've gone stright to bulk grow here's the link to my thread if u wanna check out some of the advice I've receive. So far the biggest trip for me is when the jars are fully colonized they will almost fully dissappear once shake lol I think I had fully done jars a week sooner but didn't know the white shit dissappear when shaken so i kept waiting lol    http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20329424

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InvisibleDirtygoat
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: more4u2c]
    #20537244 - 09/08/14 11:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Lol yea I think that jar looks fine.. Just shake every few hours it should be good within a day or 2. Idk why it seems psilobeast just really wanted to correct someone for anything he can lol

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InvisibleDirtygoat
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: more4u2c]
    #20537252 - 09/08/14 11:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

more4u2c said:
Yeah I've had the same looking jars with my wbs tek and it was from me removing them from the pc too soon but after a day it was all good I wouldn't worry too much. I am a total noob never done any shroom growing at all and I've gone stright to bulk grow here's the link to my thread if u wanna check out some of the advice I've receive. So far the biggest trip for me is when the jars are fully colonized they will almost fully dissappear once shake lol I think I had fully done jars a week sooner but didn't know the white shit dissappear when shaken so i kept waiting lol    http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20329424




It's also often a good idea to shake the jars and wait another few days before using them. Once they re colonize to all white you can be sure there were no hiding contams, and this way you can be sure every last grain is colonized so you don't find that out when it's too late

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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: Dirtygoat]
    #20537720 - 09/08/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dirtygoat said:
Quote:

more4u2c said:
Yeah I've had the same looking jars with my wbs tek and it was from me removing them from the pc too soon but after a day it was all good I wouldn't worry too much. I am a total noob never done any shroom growing at all and I've gone stright to bulk grow here's the link to my thread if u wanna check out some of the advice I've receive. So far the biggest trip for me is when the jars are fully colonized they will almost fully dissappear once shake lol I think I had fully done jars a week sooner but didn't know the white shit dissappear when shaken so i kept waiting lol




It's also often a good idea to shake the jars and wait another few days before using them. Once they re colonize to all white you can be sure there were no hiding contams, and this way you can be sure every last grain is colonized so you don't find that out when it's too late







Definitely appreciate this bit of information! Also after seeing the jars this morning, I think they're fine. Didn't see how there couldn't be some condensation inside the jars while still hot unless there was absolutely zero moisture in the jars!

A couple of the jars have some brown film on the glass, but these two will be discarded if they're unusable. Could there really be bacterial contam showing only 12 hours after pc'ing? I also thought this could be grain goop from over hydration of some of the grains. Either way, I think I'll be throwing those two away unless someone suggests otherwise.

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OfflineMike1230
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20537731 - 09/08/14 01:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Probably gypsum and cofee gunk, I get it on the glass when jarring the bottom of a batch of wbs


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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: Mike1230]
    #20538027 - 09/08/14 01:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh then do you think it's safe to use? The grains themselves seem plenty dry.

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OfflineMike1230
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20538110 - 09/08/14 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yea should be fine unless its some ridiculous amount of it


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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: Mike1230]
    #20538951 - 09/08/14 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think it's too crazy. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20596038 - 09/21/14 07:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Bump for update.

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Invisibleazur
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20596213 - 09/21/14 08:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tr20josh said:
I don't think it's too crazy. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.



Quote:

tr20josh said:
Bump for update.



You were going to update with a pic, not a bump....


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Invisibletr20josh
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: azur]
    #20596273 - 09/21/14 09:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

See the bottom of the OP.

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Invisibleazur
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Re: First time attempting bulk - input greatly appreciated! [Re: tr20josh]
    #20596302 - 09/21/14 09:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


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FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
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