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Invisibletuna
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Registered: 10/27/03
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was this a good idea?
    #2052607 - 10/29/03 02:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

today i cased a standard rice-verm cake, and was overtaken by curiosity..... what if i added some sort of nutrient to the casing layer; not enough to support much new micelium, but enough to do more than just hydrate the cake. so i did the following.  :eek:
1. boiled pot of water
2. added 1/2 cup polenta enriched cornmeal
3. simmered for 20 min.
4. then i used the water from the polenta to hydrate the verm for the casing. there was no actual polenta added to the casing, just the water.
5. cased as usual

think it will make any difference? i figure the nutrients i boiled from the corn meal should help the shrooms somehow. i'll keep ya'll posted.
 
also, what is this i hear about dunking cakes in something or other to promote mushroom growth?   
 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: tuna]
    #2052613 - 10/29/03 02:48 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

>think it will make any difference?

Yes, it will likely contaminate.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: tuna]
    #2052621 - 10/29/03 02:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Generaly it's not a good idea to add nutrients to casing layer, but let's see what will happen. I think contamination will be more likely this way.
I'd rather try corn meal instead of BRF.


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Invisibletuna
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: Anno]
    #2052623 - 10/29/03 02:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

everything is steril though. i have never had a contam prob before.my shit is pretty clean.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: tuna]
    #2052633 - 10/29/03 02:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cool. Let us know how it went.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: zeronio]
    #2052674 - 10/29/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

keep in mind that once you nutrify the casing layer, it becomes a substrate, no longer fully serving it's purpose.


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: canid]
    #2053129 - 10/29/03 10:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Casing layers + Nutrients = Contaminants almost guaranteed. Sorry to burst your bubble :smile: Good thought, tho. Hope it works well.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: lysergic]
    #2053480 - 10/29/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Remember that the casing layer is meant to provide a good microenvironment for pin formation and maturation, not to supply nutrients to the mycelium.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSixCee
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: Seuss]
    #2054075 - 10/29/03 05:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If it is enough to feed some mycelium it is defnititely enough to feed some contams.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: tuna]
    #2054171 - 10/29/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tuna said:
everything is steril though.




How are you applying a casing layer sterilly? In a flowhood with sterile gloves? If not it's probably just somewhat semi-sterile, or clean.

It could work, actually Stamets makes reference to this in TMC (except he said to mix the supplements in with the mycelium, not the casing,) but the contamination level will rise, without doubt.

--
Micro


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Edited by micro (10/29/03 06:26 PM)


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: micro]
    #2076250 - 11/06/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The casing layer is not there to provide nutrients. the only problem your gonna get is contamination. Think about this anything that's left out of the refrigerator is gonna spoil. That's what's gonna happen to you. You're gonna end up with spoiled stinky polenta!!!!!


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2076493 - 11/06/03 10:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah -- the goal is *not* to have the mycelium fully colonize the casing.  At this point it ceases to be a casing :wink:

--
Micro


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Offlineaje
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: micro]
    #2077379 - 11/06/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, one point of the casing layer is to be non nutritive so whatever bacteria may fall on top cannot grow because there are no nutrients to it.


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OfflineTheta
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: aje]
    #2077627 - 11/06/03 06:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Qusetion: In nature, the top layer of whatever substrate in which the mycelium is growing is generally going to be nutrient rich - i.e. a pile of poo.

In nature, why don't we see fully colonized piles of poo (or other substrate), but rather only the fruiting bodies exposed?


I do understand that the non-nutritive top casing layer's function is to provide the correct micro-climate as well as inhibit bacterial and unwanted/harmful fungal growth.

However, assuming a very sterile process is utilized, no contams are present, and the top casing layer is providing the correct microclimate, what harm would a nutrient rich layer do?

Why do we see a full colonization of that layer in manual cultivation, but not always a full colonization of the top layer of "natural" substrate?


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: Theta]
    #2077700 - 11/06/03 06:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

maybe it has to do with the sun (UV rays and such) i dunno though, thats just a guess.... but maybe being exposed to the natural elements keeps the mycelium from venturing out too far?


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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: Theta]
    #2078530 - 11/06/03 10:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You know one is just going to keep asking these questions till they try for themselves and the result is alot of wasted time and energy. I think that the only way no contams could be present is on the surface of the moon. Why won't people just accept the wisdom of those who have gone before us. A casing layer is there to provide moisture and protect the mycelium. Now I don't know how much of a newbie you maybe but I think you may be getting ideas mixed up. Of course you could use your cakes to spawn a bulk substrate such as straw or compost or cow manure. You can simply crumble your cake up and use like grain spawn. I used to do this until I figured out just what a time consuming process making those 1/2 pint jars is. Now I just use wbs spawn to innoculate cow manure.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2079498 - 11/07/03 03:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There's always a small chance that you'll discover something new if you try something that is "against the rules". Experiments are fun even if you fail.


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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: zeronio]
    #2079561 - 11/07/03 03:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

okay there's always room for innovation and experimentation. However I have had bad luck with that a la the corn cob tek. Really, has anyone had success with this one as I sure didn't.


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Offlinewalk
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: o0PapaSmurf0o]
    #2080033 - 11/07/03 07:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Papasmurf; now I don't know how much of a newbie you maybe but I think expirementing is the most important thing you can do. Questioning the wisdom of those before us is essiential.

Theta; I think mycelium could not remain on the surface of a substrate because it would dessicate.
Having a nutritious casing layer could be bad because the fungus may try to exhaust nurients before it fruits. Adding a nutritious layer could delay rather than induce fruiting.

Maybe someone could try hydrated thier casing layer with a wee bit of tea from fresh fruit/pins. That 'experiment' may give more exciting results.
Good on ya.



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Offlineo0PapaSmurf0o
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Re: was this a good idea? [Re: walk]
    #2080085 - 11/07/03 08:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well i have alot of experience, however, i just don't have any tolerance for failures. I see contamination as a failure on my part. However, I do have to admit there are those eureka moments when I've tweaked something personally that I get a great deal of satisfaction. However, there have also been times when i end up thinking what the f*ck was I thinking?!!!!


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