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Gilgamesh18
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What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition)
#20507087 - 09/01/14 05:27 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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In the US, it is true that many rural areas have people leaving to the cities for jobs and culture/amenities, though since the US is so well-developed, it is not a strong draw, and there seem equally people willing to do the reverse and move to small towns or take up rural living, even if the balance is not equal, the net migration is not as strong in one direction. Also, the USA urbanized more gradually, and additionally, many newcomers to cities were immigrants, so that probably influenced the development of US cities.
By contrast, in many cities in the world, especially the developing world, farmers are flocking to cities rapidly and a lot of urbanization comes from domestic migration. Since urbanization is happening very quickly in the developing world, the character must be very different.
One thing I wonder is how much difference it makes when you get a fast vs. slow urbanization. Whereas in a place like Africa or Asia, you might get people who lived totally subsistence level a generation back, without running water, electricity or phones, into a big city, Americans and probably Europeans and other developed world people experienced more gradual innovations, from horses to streetcars to cars etc, from written letters and telegraph lines to phone lines and now cell phones. It was not a big jump from subsistence living to living in New York.
Do you get a lot of differences in the nature of urbanity if the transition is slow vs. fast? One thing that is definitely noticeable is that with the fast urbanization (eg. that occurs in the developing world) there is a lot less emphasis on preservation. A city in China, India or Africa might tear down old villages, temples, etc. and focus on building as fast as possible, whereas an American or European city might care about preserving a century or centuries old building, right?
What are the consequences of a city rising rapidly vs. gradually?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507165 - 09/01/14 05:45 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Rapid rising cities are an absolute cluster fuck.
Look at china. The build cities in a matter of weeks. The buildings all look like shit, most are poorly planned (indivual ACs instead of central in skyscrapers), it adds to the cost, it screws up energy effeciency, it pollutes like motherfucker and people are all stacked together.
Sure they could take the time to plan it all out to make it a utopian city, but they can't. Demand is too high, people are dying, they need these new cities NOW; therefore, they fuck it all up.
Now a well planned city that doesn't demand its contruction yesterday can be an amazing form of urbanization. Hell, its the future of humanity.
Take a look at London, UK. The city is spread very widely and people don't want it to expand more. They'va had plans to build higher buildings to meet the demand, but people are bitching that it'll ruin the view for everybody. They though of expanding underground but people don't feel right when they know they live 10 levels underground. So London can't expand in height, width and depth, and scientists still haven't discovered that mysterious 4th dimension.
Obviously the solution is to build mega self sustainable skyscrapers (which is entirely possible). The only problem is that they cost 100 billion dollars.
While I was writing I kinda forgot OPs post so I might of babbled incoherently a little
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Patlal]
#20507195 - 09/01/14 05:49 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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A city should be highly dense this will make them better alternatives to rural living. If the majority live in cities most of the planet can be returned to a sort of nature preserve. Urban farming is the future.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507212 - 09/01/14 05:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: A city should be highly dense this will make them better alternatives to rural living. If the majority live in cities most of the planet can be returned to a sort of nature preserve. Urban farming is the future.
Yes, that too.
Give nature back to nature.
It should be megalopolis, separted by 200km and then another megalopolis.
That way, we are happy, the animals are hapy, plants grow freely, trees aren't cut down. Rivers don't get polluted for no reason. Shit becomes good again
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Patlal]
#20507224 - 09/01/14 05:54 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: A city should be highly dense this will make them better alternatives to rural living. If the majority live in cities most of the planet can be returned to a sort of nature preserve. Urban farming is the future.
Yes, that too.
Give nature back to nature.
It should be megalopolis, separted by 200km and then another megalopolis.
That way, we are happy, the animals are hapy, plants grow freely, trees aren't cut down. Rivers don't get polluted for no reason. Shit becomes good again
Indeed and high speed rail is the solution to transportation needs. Sadly I was laughed out of a city council meeting when I proposed my urbanist plans to the council and mayor.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507244 - 09/01/14 05:59 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: A city should be highly dense this will make them better alternatives to rural living. If the majority live in cities most of the planet can be returned to a sort of nature preserve. Urban farming is the future.
Yes, that too.
Give nature back to nature.
It should be megalopolis, separted by 200km and then another megalopolis.
That way, we are happy, the animals are hapy, plants grow freely, trees aren't cut down. Rivers don't get polluted for no reason. Shit becomes good again
Indeed and high speed rail is the solution to transportation needs. Sadly I was laughed out of a city council meeting when I proposed my urbanist plans to the council and mayor.
How big is your town and what did you propose?
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Patlal]
#20507260 - 09/01/14 06:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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The population is about 500k. I proposed improvements to the bus system it only runs 5 days a week and stops at 8pm plus it doesn't take you everywhere. I also proposed offering tax incentives to developers who build high rise residential units, but no my town is stuck in the 50s they think more roads and suburbs are the answer. I will not give up but those in power don't want to change the city for the 21st century.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507307 - 09/01/14 06:13 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: The population is about 500k. I proposed improvements to the bus system it only runs 5 days a week and stops at 8pm plus it doesn't take you everywhere. I also proposed offering tax incentives to developers who build high rise residential units, but no my town is stuck in the 50s they think more roads and suburbs are the answer. I will not give up but those in power don't want to change the city for the 21st century.
You have to keep going back.
I say it'll take you at least 5 attempts before they stop laughing you out of the room and start taking you a little more seriously. Provided of course that you constantly update and refine your ideas to a point where nobody can doubt your competence and dedication.
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Patlal]
#20507322 - 09/01/14 06:15 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: The population is about 500k. I proposed improvements to the bus system it only runs 5 days a week and stops at 8pm plus it doesn't take you everywhere. I also proposed offering tax incentives to developers who build high rise residential units, but no my town is stuck in the 50s they think more roads and suburbs are the answer. I will not give up but those in power don't want to change the city for the 21st century.
You have to keep going back.
I say it'll take you at least 5 attempts before they stop laughing you out of the room and start taking you a little more seriously. Provided of course that you constantly update and refine your ideas to a point where nobody can doubt your competence and dedication.
Thats a good point its just so slow democracy in action
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507451 - 09/01/14 06:48 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: The population is about 500k. I proposed improvements to the bus system it only runs 5 days a week and stops at 8pm plus it doesn't take you everywhere. I also proposed offering tax incentives to developers who build high rise residential units, but no my town is stuck in the 50s they think more roads and suburbs are the answer. I will not give up but those in power don't want to change the city for the 21st century.
You have to keep going back.
I say it'll take you at least 5 attempts before they stop laughing you out of the room and start taking you a little more seriously. Provided of course that you constantly update and refine your ideas to a point where nobody can doubt your competence and dedication.
Thats a good point its just so slow democracy in action 
Also, you're just a kid with big ideas.
Ideas are great, but the details on how you will make your ideas happen are crucial. Everybody has awesome ideas, most of aren't intelligent enough to make them happen
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Sensanaty
Ohm Swastiastu



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20507511 - 09/01/14 07:05 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I live in SEA (South East Asia), and currently I'm staying in Jakarta (Capital, and largest city of Indonesia), and that city is the result of quick, rushed urbanization. Filthy, crowded, smelly, dark and thoroughly depressing, the buildings are all devoid of any life and joy, it takes an hour to cross a kilometer of road. Every part of the city seems hostile, and being out on the streets at night is a true experience undertaken only by the filth of the city. Flying into the city you can see what people mean by pollution, as a gigantic, yellow sphere comes into view a few kilometers away from the city. There are no stars at night, and just being outside of an A/C'd room makes you feel filthy, and gives the sensation of being covered in dirt and smog.
And then you travel to Singapore, an hour away via airplane, and it is the polar opposite. Apart from the no stars thing, that is.
And then again, you travel to Bali, another hour away, and it is yet again the polar opposite of the 2 megalopolis'. Amazing, casual atmosphere, friendly people, full of tradition and full of life. Plus those stars.
If you ask me, controlled urbanization is the only "good" kind of urbanization. Because that's what's happening in Bali. Certain parts are being left to get their culture and traditions killed by the increasing influx of tourists and foreigners, while the majority rest of it is still what it once was, and it's a good and truly beautiful balance.
Peace, -Sen
-------------------- Trip safe, Trip smart, Let the trip take you on a journey Peace and Love to all of Humanity Thou Art God
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Sensanaty]
#20509448 - 09/02/14 07:15 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sensanaty said: I live in SEA (South East Asia), and currently I'm staying in Jakarta (Capital, and largest city of Indonesia), and that city is the result of quick, rushed urbanization. Filthy, crowded, smelly, dark and thoroughly depressing, the buildings are all devoid of any life and joy, it takes an hour to cross a kilometer of road. Every part of the city seems hostile, and being out on the streets at night is a true experience undertaken only by the filth of the city. Flying into the city you can see what people mean by pollution, as a gigantic, yellow sphere comes into view a few kilometers away from the city. There are no stars at night, and just being outside of an A/C'd room makes you feel filthy, and gives the sensation of being covered in dirt and smog.
And then you travel to Singapore, an hour away via airplane, and it is the polar opposite. Apart from the no stars thing, that is.
And then again, you travel to Bali, another hour away, and it is yet again the polar opposite of the 2 megalopolis'. Amazing, casual atmosphere, friendly people, full of tradition and full of life. Plus those stars.
If you ask me, controlled urbanization is the only "good" kind of urbanization. Because that's what's happening in Bali. Certain parts are being left to get their culture and traditions killed by the increasing influx of tourists and foreigners, while the majority rest of it is still what it once was, and it's a good and truly beautiful balance.
Peace, -Sen 
Fascinating what are your impressions of Singapore? I did a paper on that city state not to long ago very interesting culture there.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20509458 - 09/02/14 07:20 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think the biggest difference is livability. Slower urban development generally leads to better developed infer structure like public transportation, parks, walkable neighborhoods, local grocers, etc.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: nicechrisman]
#20509462 - 09/02/14 07:22 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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When I toured India I was struck by the hodpodge ways in which there urban centers have sprung up in the modern era. Smog was thick and the smell of thousands of animals and humans was overwhelming the roads were clogged and it took 4 hours to go 50 kilometers.
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Sensanaty
Ohm Swastiastu



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Re: What are the consequences of gradual vs. fast urbanization (especially rural-urban transition) [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#20511429 - 09/02/14 06:27 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Fascinating. What are your impressions of Singapore? I did a paper on that city state not to long ago very interesting culture there.
Singapore is a city I try avoid as much as I can, it simply isn't my cup of tea. Everything is too organized, too specific and too planned, it leaves little room for the imagination, though it doesn't hurt to go to the urban jungle every once in a while to remind myself that organized civilization still exists.
It's also a very good example of the genius of the English Empire. They gave out all the territory back, but in turn control the most important parts of the globe. S'pore used to be a small fishing village, and is now the richest country/city in the entire Region, including Australia. An incredible port, so the Brits were smart about it and spewed all their money into it, and now rip the benefits.
But now it is very obvious it is heavily influenced by the Chinese population there, as the 'culture' is very... Chinese-ey
Peace Sen
-------------------- Trip safe, Trip smart, Let the trip take you on a journey Peace and Love to all of Humanity Thou Art God
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