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Offlinegnrm23
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ein feste burg ist unser gott
    #2050966 - 10/28/03 05:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

reformation sunday done come & gone...
dr luther did a fine job with that old german beer-drinking song, turning it into a hymn & all...
lordy, almost 500 years ago...
the fellow was a monk (order of st augustine), a priest, a college professor, and he stirred up enough trouble to get his busy tuchis excommunicated (& executed if'n they'd a caught him --- at his trial (the "diet of worms" --- a congress convened in the german city of verms) he would have been convicted of heresy; rich & powerful noble friends kidnapped him away from the trial city & stashed him away from churchly authorities until "the heat blew over" --- yeah, right...)
& he translated the bible into german vernacular (almost 100 years before king james authorized an english translation) & began a new flavor of christianity, bible-based, grace-inspired, & a swift kick in the pants for "romish" authoritarians...
~
a mighty fortress is our god
a bulwark never failing...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: gnrm23]
    #2051200 - 10/28/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Meanwhile...back in the East...Orthodox Christianity didn't seem to need a Reformation. Probably 'cause priests could marry and balance their psychophysicospiritual lives (Luther DID like to speak of 'going in unto his wife' when stressed). The Easterners could remain celibate if they chose to climb the ecclesiastical ladder, and monastic retreats could always be had, not to mention a practical mysticism (to use a title by Evelyn Underhill). They also enjoined the reading of Scripture, unlike Catholics who kept learning for the religious and exploited the ignorant masses with their propaganda. With all the bad karma the RC Church has accrued, it is no wonder the spirit of perversion has begun to ooze from its pustilar priesthood. Hell's Bells, even Hieronymous Bosch painted religious as pigs-in-habits and the like, how long ago?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2051591 - 10/28/03 09:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



light of day edit


Edited by Anonymous (10/29/03 09:50 AM)


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2052216 - 10/29/03 12:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Why did Easterners need to remain celibate if they hoped to climb the ecclesiastical ladder?


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: hongomon]
    #2052259 - 10/29/03 12:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

maybe cause it kept them from being one with god. It gave them something else to think about :wink: and not the one they should be concerned with... climbing the ladder to god. Or the seat of their desired religous position. I for some reason sense that the belief of this is rooted in the ideas of temptation. It might break their focus.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2053022 - 10/29/03 08:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the eastern church...
if only communication channels had been quicker back then... luther could quite possibly have worked out something with the orthodox...
as to married clergy... martin didn't marry sister kate (used to be a nun...) until years had gone by (to counter scurrilous romish rumours that he had quit the priesthood in order to marry...); in one of his table talks, luther said that if he knew for a fact that christ was returning tomorrow, he would still plant a tree (& try to plant a baby, heh) today... crazy lustig  deutscher, jawohl...
i think in huxley's _island_ luther is mentioned as affecting the course of european history with his new slant on theology, with his childhood rearing (& vigorous spankings!!!) influencing his view on "man & god & law" (& "ever'body knows she's the brains behind paw" :wink: ...)
now, if dr luther only hadn't railed against the jews (mostly because they didn't all immediately convert to christianity, once they beheld the pristine apostolic purity of luther's version of de-romanized christianity...
~
95 theses nailed to the cathedral door --- looking for a good debating partner/adversary, but no takers, just a summons to defend himself against charges of deviationism & heresy...
"here i stand. i can do no other. god help me."


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: gnrm23]
    #2054291 - 10/29/03 07:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Island is a wonderful book. I remember that whole theology thing he was going over in his book and relating it to the scenario of Pala. My family is lutheran, although.... ich bin nicht  :grin:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2054651 - 10/29/03 09:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was gonna start an underground publishing company a few years ago and call it "Martin Luther Press". I told my sister about it and she thought the name was racial. She's protestant, too. Dumbass.

But yeah, Martin Luther was the shit. A true servant of the the Lord he was.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2054984 - 10/29/03 10:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2055459 - 10/30/03 01:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
maybe cause it kept them from being one with god. It gave them something else to think about :wink: and not the one they should be concerned with... climbing the ladder to god. Or the seat of their desired religous position. I for some reason sense that the belief of this is rooted in the ideas of temptation. It might break their focus. 




You ever tried being celibate?  Gives a mind plenty to think about, lemme tell ya. :smirk: 


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: hongomon]
    #2056430 - 10/30/03 08:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"sin boldly!"
(dr martin luther)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: ]
    #2058564 - 10/30/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Uh, yeah. Bosch didn't paint a very nice picture of the Jews who clamoured for the death of Jesus either.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: hongomon]
    #2058575 - 10/30/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

They did not marry, and sex belongs in the context of marriage alone. By not marrying, they are able to direct and sublimate their libidinal energies exclusively to the work of the Church, rather than dividing it with wife, children, domestic duties, etc.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2058875 - 10/30/03 11:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I tried, and I ripped myself into millions of pieces... then torched them... then just this essence was left. And i try to just appreciate and understand things now. The question is... can libidinal energies be created without the desire for the use of the physical body? So in other words... how can i have those energies if im not doing the hanky panky? Thats a real trickeroo there. Along with that, ive talked to many a people who think that this attitude and behavior is a prime example for the fucked up sexual behavior in all the clergy men. Pope's having orgies, altar boys being sexually abused. If there stood people to give teachings about this than i think it might be followed. The church joined itself so much with the states in various instances, that they put their power before their prayers. If they wanted to follow scripture, why didnt they just take some responsibility of explaining and teaching what they preached?

There ought to be a balance of these things, and that i understand. But I just find it so comical that people preach all these things and yet in their own lives they live nothing of the sort. Maybe the people who wrote a lot of the scriptures and religous text didnt follow up in their explaining to the citizens the full extent of what it means to uphold the ideas that they do.  :mad2: , i think im just gonna start repeating myself.... DOH!


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Anonymous

Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2059006 - 10/31/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Uh, yeah. Bosch didn't paint a very nice picture of the Jews who clamoured for the death of Jesus either.




He doesn't flatter any of us.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2059963 - 10/31/03 08:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Mother Theresa even spoke at one point of her sublimated 'sex energy.' The fact is, 'some men make themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven,' because they are able to. This does not mean mutilation and removal of the testicles. This means being like some people, like a childhood friend of mine who lived in a rural area and did not have sex for 15 years! He apparently does not have the same sexual needs as I do, and so, his 'libidinal energy', which is NOT exclusively sexual in nature (according to Jung and to the spiritual traditions that teach how to transmute them on higher levels, like the Inner Fire tradition [gtum-mo] of Tibetan Buddhism). Even though this sounds like a 'higher,' or 'more spiritual' path, it is not given to everyone to ignore their sexual needs. Marriage/Tantra are the West/East concessions to controlling and limiting this expenditure of energy. I mean, if I had a new partner every day like the late Will Chamberlain, then the libido would be used almost exclusively in the service of sex and sensuality, with no tension to subdue the passions and no spiritual or moral development would occur. Too bad on the day one dies.

The libido is the energy of our mind-body, and spiritual development is pretty well understood in this century as an integration of body-mind-spirit, rather than a suppression/repression and flight from physical reality. This was NEVER a Biblical take, but a Neoplatonic "flight of the alone to the Alone." Hence 'Monos,' - One - Alone - Monastacism. BTW, tonight I will be my alter-ego: a Franciscan monk in a museum-replica brown hooded robe, knotted rope and rosary. My Lady will wear a black body suit, a wine-colored hooded cape, stilletto heeled black boots and a large garnet studded cross. Celibacy and Sexuality conjoined - a MUCH happier balance than either alone. Believe me, I know.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ein feste burg ist unser gott [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2060107 - 10/31/03 11:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sweet reply! I see now, i did not understand the use of the libido. I see you are saying like the inner energy, what one puts their actions towards... and how it fuses with the body... i guess? Anway, i think i got the picture. Good post  :thumbup::laugh:


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