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InvisiblePsycylus
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This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them.
    #20507867 - 09/01/14 08:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It has smaller holes but more of them. Do you guys thing it will have effective FAE?

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OfflineMonkeyJesusFresco
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Psycylus]
    #20507899 - 09/01/14 08:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

ya know, those kind'a look like the correct sized holes :shrug:

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InvisiblePsycylus
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: MonkeyJesusFresco]
    #20507921 - 09/01/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MonkeyJesusFresco said:
ya know, those kind'a look like the correct sized holes :shrug:




They're 3/16in instead of the 1/4in that I read in most guides. Just making sure it will still have the desired effect.


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OfflineNos-hroom
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Psycylus]
    #20507940 - 09/01/14 08:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

As the size difference is near-negligible, I think the effect will be as well. Of course, I'm no expert on aerodynamics, but I do think it'll be viable.

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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Nos-hroom]
    #20507953 - 09/01/14 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Dont try to reinvent the wheel.












Not saying it cant be done of course:wink:


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Fail to plan and you plan to fail.

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InvisiblePsycylus
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Buck513]
    #20507971 - 09/01/14 08:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Buck513 said:
Dont try to reinvent the wheel.

Not saying it cant be done of course;)





lmao...wasn't my intention exactly. Only had that size bit available at the time.


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OfflineTaiJi
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Psycylus]
    #20507989 - 09/01/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psycylus said:lmao...wasn't my intention exactly. Only had that size bit available at the time.




Although it looks like a small difference, the area is about half of what a 1/4" hole will give you so you'd have to drill almost twice the number of holes.


--------------------
"If some study enlightenment, we study illusion. We seek medicine in the very poison that has seduced us. The mind, we say, is too much with us, so let's heap on some more. The left-hand work. Whatever."
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: TaiJi]
    #20508009 - 09/01/14 08:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
When you don't have your own experience you should find something your gut tells you is trustworthy through your own investigation. Use the people who developed it's experience and let that guide you without throwing in your own gut feelings because they've likely had the same ones and figured out already that that didn't work. Then you'll develop your own experience and be able to branch out and continue the evolution of your craft.





Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I experimented with every hole size possible before settling on 1/4" (6mm).  Best performance was with 3/8" holes, but you have to mist more.  Since most people are lazy I settled on the 1/4" size because in most cases the terrarium can be handled with a misting or two per day.
RR




Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.

Quote:

pussyfart said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.



:whathesaid:

Quote:

The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together.  This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite.

The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium.  This results in relatively lower pressure.  This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure.  This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process.  This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.

The CO2 does not settle to the bottom.  In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation.  It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom.
RR



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

JayBrasco said:
fewer, you dont want alot of humidity to escape. only enough on the BOTTOM to get rid of CO2




Bad advice.  Fresh air exchange causes a loss of moisture from the cakes or other substrate, and this loss of moisture is the number ONE pinning trigger.  Noobs worry too much about humidity, which is easily corrected with misting.  You MUST mist to make up for the lost moisture.  In the old days, people would toss cakes in a sealed up chamber and hope for a couple of mushrooms before green mold set in.  Today, you can easily get three or four times the harvest the early growers did by using a proper terrarium that provides both fresh air and high humidity.

Furthermore, why you guys think CO2 is heavy like water and will drain out holes in the bottom baffles the mind.  If all the CO2 settled to the bottom, we'd all be dead due to the power plants and cars, cows, etc., that are puking out tons of CO2 by the minute.  The CO2 MIXES with the air and thus must be exchanged WITH the air.  It isn't a sweet little layer on the bottom of your fruiting chambers.

As for only reading 80% humidity in a shotgun terrarium with a humidifier running in the closet, it proves your hygrometer is screwed.  I can put a shotgun terrarium in an open room with the lid totally off and get higher humidity than that.

I seriously doubt anyone has lower humidity than I do.  It's below zero outside and I use a large cast iron wood stove to heat my cabin.  My properly made shotgun terrariums all read 95% or greater.  I keep a cool mist humidifier running near the wood stove, and it's nice and cozy in here, even though there's nearly five feet of snow on the ground outside.
RR



Co2's concentration in "air" is higher at sea level but it's still mixed evenly with the air. Yes gravity does work but it doesn't pull co2 out of the air to make it it's own distinct layer.

even more on the subject

RH
You can't see RH, a SGFC should have no condensation on the walls, Condensation is caused by temperature differentials, if you have condensation you need to fix something. If you want to measure RH the bare minimum in quality for a hygrometer is a analog cigar box one that can be calibrated or a "synthetic hair hygrometer"

Don't get too worried and caught up trying to measure the RH in your SGFC anyway. It's far more important in a green house to measure humidity not so much in your SGFC,

When I put a RH gauge in my SGFC it doesn't read more than 90% all the time, and that's good A-OK just fine, don't worry about it don't measure it, your cakes are going to have a perfect micro-climate if you did the dunk and roll you'll have 99% surface humidity and that's all that matters, FAE is way more important and the RH inside the chamber is just fine for the fruit bodies themselves, if you have low humidity in your home just mist the perlite a bit more often to keep it hydrated it will work just fine and properly if you build it right and follow the damn directions to the T and not try to make your own uneducated guesses as to what improvements you can make. If you must then use the humidifier on the other side of the room or as far away from the SGFC as you can manage.

supplemental info about RH

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OfflineNos-hroom
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Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 183
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20508034 - 09/01/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

^

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InvisiblePsycylus
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Registered: 08/14/14
Posts: 72
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20508254 - 09/01/14 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
When you don't have your own experience you should find something your gut tells you is trustworthy through your own investigation. Use the people who developed it's experience and let that guide you without throwing in your own gut feelings because they've likely had the same ones and figured out already that that didn't work. Then you'll develop your own experience and be able to branch out and continue the evolution of your craft.





Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I experimented with every hole size possible before settling on 1/4" (6mm).  Best performance was with 3/8" holes, but you have to mist more.  Since most people are lazy I settled on the 1/4" size because in most cases the terrarium can be handled with a misting or two per day.
RR




Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.

Quote:

pussyfart said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.



:whathesaid:

Quote:

The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together.  This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite.

The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium.  This results in relatively lower pressure.  This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure.  This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process.  This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.

The CO2 does not settle to the bottom.  In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation.  It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom.
RR



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

JayBrasco said:
fewer, you dont want alot of humidity to escape. only enough on the BOTTOM to get rid of CO2




Bad advice.  Fresh air exchange causes a loss of moisture from the cakes or other substrate, and this loss of moisture is the number ONE pinning trigger.  Noobs worry too much about humidity, which is easily corrected with misting.  You MUST mist to make up for the lost moisture.  In the old days, people would toss cakes in a sealed up chamber and hope for a couple of mushrooms before green mold set in.  Today, you can easily get three or four times the harvest the early growers did by using a proper terrarium that provides both fresh air and high humidity.

Furthermore, why you guys think CO2 is heavy like water and will drain out holes in the bottom baffles the mind.  If all the CO2 settled to the bottom, we'd all be dead due to the power plants and cars, cows, etc., that are puking out tons of CO2 by the minute.  The CO2 MIXES with the air and thus must be exchanged WITH the air.  It isn't a sweet little layer on the bottom of your fruiting chambers.

As for only reading 80% humidity in a shotgun terrarium with a humidifier running in the closet, it proves your hygrometer is screwed.  I can put a shotgun terrarium in an open room with the lid totally off and get higher humidity than that.

I seriously doubt anyone has lower humidity than I do.  It's below zero outside and I use a large cast iron wood stove to heat my cabin.  My properly made shotgun terrariums all read 95% or greater.  I keep a cool mist humidifier running near the wood stove, and it's nice and cozy in here, even though there's nearly five feet of snow on the ground outside.
RR



Co2's concentration in "air" is higher at sea level but it's still mixed evenly with the air. Yes gravity does work but it doesn't pull co2 out of the air to make it it's own distinct layer.

even more on the subject

RH
You can't see RH, a SGFC should have no condensation on the walls, Condensation is caused by temperature differentials, if you have condensation you need to fix something. If you want to measure RH the bare minimum in quality for a hygrometer is a analog cigar box one that can be calibrated or a "synthetic hair hygrometer"

Don't get too worried and caught up trying to measure the RH in your SGFC anyway. It's far more important in a green house to measure humidity not so much in your SGFC,

When I put a RH gauge in my SGFC it doesn't read more than 90% all the time, and that's good A-OK just fine, don't worry about it don't measure it, your cakes are going to have a perfect micro-climate if you did the dunk and roll you'll have 99% surface humidity and that's all that matters, FAE is way more important and the RH inside the chamber is just fine for the fruit bodies themselves, if you have low humidity in your home just mist the perlite a bit more often to keep it hydrated it will work just fine and properly if you build it right and follow the damn directions to the T and not try to make your own uneducated guesses as to what improvements you can make. If you must then use the humidifier on the other side of the room or as far away from the SGFC as you can manage.

supplemental info about RH





I fukn love you guys...


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Invisiblecaptain trips99
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Psycylus]
    #20550233 - 09/10/14 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I tried SFC and had very little success. I now use 1.5 inch holes filled with poly fill.  Still get green mold on occasion but I just toss the cakes for safety.

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InvisibleTheChief
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Psycylus]
    #20550259 - 09/10/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psycylus said:
Quote:

MonkeyJesusFresco said:
ya know, those kind'a look like the correct sized holes :shrug:




They're 3/16in instead of the 1/4in that I read in most guides. Just making sure it will still have the desired effect.



For my SGFC, I used 3/16 holes in a 2 inch grid pattern.  It worked just fine.  Looks like a whole lot of work for nothing.


--------------------


jcbowling1985 said:
"Additionally I did one Armageddon jar with all of the types together."

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: TheChief]
    #20550326 - 09/10/14 08:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

3/8 holes work better than 1/4 holes but you need to mist more 3/16 holes are fail.

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InvisibleTheChief
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20550361 - 09/10/14 08:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I kept a close eye on my SGFC, mist and fanned when needed.  You may be right there, Bodhisatta.


--------------------


jcbowling1985 said:
"Additionally I did one Armageddon jar with all of the types together."

Edited by TheChief (09/10/14 08:38 PM)

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InvisibleTheChief
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20550384 - 09/10/14 08:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

In my opinion, that is a waiste of a Sterilite 1928 anyway.  I would have made a Mono.

Edit:  I was a noob at one point too though, for some reason SGFC is always the first thing we cling to.


--------------------


jcbowling1985 said:
"Additionally I did one Armageddon jar with all of the types together."

Edited by TheChief (09/10/14 08:44 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: TheChief]
    #20550462 - 09/10/14 08:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

SGFC works awesome. I've never made a monotub. I had fruited bricks I make in a 6 quart shoebox tote in a SGFC getting about 2 ounces off of them. Comparable to monotub yield if you break it down to per jar of spawn. I have a cat that would destroy the polyfil in a monotub and no where good to put it that the cat wouldn't get to it.

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InvisibleTheChief
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20550530 - 09/10/14 09:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A Properly made and maintained 66 qt mono will provide you with 6 ounces easy first flush...


--------------------


jcbowling1985 said:
"Additionally I did one Armageddon jar with all of the types together."

Edited by TheChief (09/10/14 09:11 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: TheChief]
    #20550551 - 09/10/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

if you don't have a pure shit culture, but even with MS 6 dry is pretty easy to hit if you do everything else right. 8/9 is the highest I've heard from a 66q.

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InvisibleSanguin3
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. *DELETED* [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20550552 - 09/10/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sanguin3

Reason for deletion: .

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InvisibleTheChief
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Re: This is my SGFC...smaller holes but more of them. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20550558 - 09/10/14 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It isn't hard to make spawn.  :shrug:


--------------------


jcbowling1985 said:
"Additionally I did one Armageddon jar with all of the types together."

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