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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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How Spitball Prepares CVG * 16
    #20469910 - 08/24/14 09:55 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

This tek is pretty much overkill if you are using CVG. However, it can also be used for bulk pasteurization.

This is part of my series "The Basics"

Now that my grain spawn is ready, I'm going to mix it with a bulk substrate. In this tek, I'll be preparing bulk substrate made of coco coir, vermiculite, gypsum, and water (CVG). I will be using a monotub for colonizing and fruiting.

Let's get this out of the way first. CVG does not require proper pasteurization or sterilization. Questions and comments on the subject can be found on Bucket Tek vs Pasteurization Thread . That is the end of the discussion on this thread, period.


The CVG recipe is:

1 Brick (650grams) coco coir
2 quarts fine-medium vermiculite
1 cup(2 big handfuls) garden or horticulture gypsum
4-4.5 quarts water

The average brick of coir weighs about 650g, but I've seen them anywhere from 550-750. If you are using one of those big bales, knowing this may be useful. Although this is not an exact science, a wide variation on the amount of coir you use may result in too wet or too dry substrate.

Following my measurements exactly will give you an understanding of field capacity. This is because CVG has been used so much and the weights and measures are so uniform.

If you use the above recipe, 4qts of water would be considered on the dry side of field capacity and 5 quarts would be on the wet side of field capacity. But, they are both in the range of what most people consider "field capacity".


There are many ways to prepare CVG and this is just another one.

Here we go:

I will keeping the CVG hot with a water bath. Basically, I'm using one pot to prep the CVG, and the other pot will have hot water in it to keep the CVG hot.



This is the two pots, one inside the other. I have two identical 21qt canning pots. One for the CVG and one for the bath.


Use one pot to boil 4 quarts of water. Use the other pot to heat water for a water bath. You'll have to figure out how much water the bath will need ahead of time. It will vary depending on pot size.

Boiling 4 qts water

Once the 4qts of water gets boiling, turn off the stove and put in the coir and vermiculite and put on lid. At this point, you can go ahead and stick the CVG pot in the water bath which should be hot by now.



After about 10 mins, it has soaked up a lot of water. Sprinkle the gypsum in on top.



Mix it up. It will still be very hot. I use a wooden spoon to mix. It doesn't have to be mixed all that well at this point because we can mix it again when it's cooled.



Put the lid back on and set a timer for at least 1 hour. This part is not critical and I only do it because of the water bath. The timer reminds me to turn of the stove being used by the water bath. It also insures that my CVG has stayed at a high temperature for at least an hour. The timer has nothing to do with making sure I'm killing bacteria.

This bath easily keeps the CVG at or above 200F.



Once the timer sounds, turn off the water bath. To cool the CVG faster, remove it from the bath as well. Once cool enough to touch, you can go ahead and mix real well by hand. I like to wear a glove because I don't like digging CVG out from under my nails.



Alternately, you can also just dump the hot CVG in to your monotub if you want. It will cool faster because it's more spread out.


Further discussion

The point of the extra step of the water bath has nothing to do with pasteurizing, sterilizing, killing bacteria or any of that. The point is cooking it to break it down so mycelium will colonize it faster.

There is growing evidence that cooked coir is great for mycelium and may be the only reason for heating the water at all; it seems heat breaks it down so it's easy to digest. People are having great success even with sterilizing CVG. CVG is the only substrate I'm aware of that can be sterilized and then spawned in open air.

To be honest, you may find easier ways to prepare CVG than this tek. Mainly, you'll find many teks and posts of people just throwing all the dry ingredients in a bucket and pouring boiling water over it. This works fine and is basically what I'm doing here. I'm just adding an extra step to keep the substrate hotter longer so it cooks a little more. The water bath is not a requirement, but it's what I do. Feel free to omit the water bath.

I also prefer the pots over the bucket because the pots are wider and not as deep. It makes mixing easier for me.

Now it's time for Spawning.


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Edited by SpitballJedi (12/13/17 12:32 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20469918 - 08/24/14 09:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:rockon:


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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #20469933 - 08/24/14 10:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:fuckinawesome:


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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #20469971 - 08/24/14 10:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:super: as always.


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OfflineDeepHyphae
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: mushmagic] * 1
    #20471132 - 08/25/14 03:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:takingnotes:


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OfflineIcon
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: mushmagic] * 1
    #20471144 - 08/25/14 03:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


CVG is the only substrate I'm aware of that can be sterilized and then spawned in open air.





Huh? But pasteurized subs like poo are still okay to spawn to in open air right? I know it's different than sterilizing inert substrates like coir and verm, but your wording had me worried for a moment.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: Icon] * 1
    #20471149 - 08/25/14 03:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nice work man. I'm sure that took a while


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: Icon] * 1
    #20471170 - 08/25/14 03:10 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
Quote:


CVG is the only substrate I'm aware of that can be sterilized and then spawned in open air.





Huh? But pasteurized subs like poo are still okay to spawn to in open air right? I know it's different than sterilizing inert substrates like coir and verm, but your wording had me worried for a moment.




Yes, properly pasteurized manure can be spawned in open air, sterilized manure can't, as far as I know.


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


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Offlinecinderblock
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20528965 - 09/07/14 12:12 AM (8 years, 25 days ago)

This is kind of a general question, but is there a reason why you add only 4 quarts, when you also mention that 5 is also acceptable? Since drying out seems to be a big issue, why not go with 5 quarts? Why risk drying?


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: cinderblock] * 1
    #20529389 - 09/07/14 01:44 AM (8 years, 25 days ago)

You can use anywhere from 4-5 qts of water with this recipe and it's still considered field capacity; it's a matter of preference. I mentioned the range for people who still don't quit understand what field capacity is.

I dunk my grains, so if I used 5 qts of water in my substrate it would be too wet and either stall or grow tiny fruits.

for this tek, I used 4 qts water because it's better to err on the dry side of field capacity when just learning to do bulk. If it seems too dry, then just add more water next time.

Your sub shouldn't be drying out with this recipe; it's used by a lot of people. If your sub is drying out, then you may want to try turning off the fan in the room, if you're using one or adjusting your polyfil. I usually don't use a fan.


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
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Offlinecinderblock
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20533466 - 09/07/14 10:06 PM (8 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
You can use anywhere from 4-5 qts of water with this recipe and it's still considered field capacity; it's a matter of preference. I mentioned the range for people who still don't quit understand what field capacity is.

I dunk my grains, so if I used 5 qts of water in my substrate it would be too wet and either stall or grow tiny fruits.

for this tek, I used 4 qts water because it's better to err on the dry side of field capacity when just learning to do bulk. If it seems too dry, then just add more water next time.

Your sub shouldn't be drying out with this recipe; it's used by a lot of people. If your sub is drying out, then you may want to try turning off the fan in the room, if you're using one or adjusting your polyfil. I usually don't use a fan.




Thanks, I shook up my jars four days ago, and they've recovered a lot now. Others told me to wait until the jar is completely white, with no visible grains, so I'll wait for that... might be another couple days 'cause some outlier grains seem hard to reach.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: cinderblock] * 2
    #20533888 - 09/07/14 11:47 PM (8 years, 24 days ago)

i did this recipe but prepped it slightly different to factor into the methods i use.

i just boiled water. dumped all the ingredients in a big mixing box(plastic box).

put the lid on for about 20 minutes.

once expanded threw in all the other ingredients like the gypsum and i added some extras like a little coffee and supercake formula.

mixed it all up and then pasteurized it.

so far so good. i have great growth after 2 days!


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: Icon] * 1
    #20533902 - 09/07/14 11:52 PM (8 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
Quote:


CVG is the only substrate I'm aware of that can be sterilized and then spawned in open air.





Huh? But pasteurized subs like poo are still okay to spawn to in open air right? I know it's different than sterilizing inert substrates like coir and verm, but your wording had me worried for a moment.




yes you can open air spawn all kinds of substrates. every substrate ive spawned was open air.

over the years ive tried:

cow dung/straw
coir/verm/strawnet
cat country straw pellets
black cow(dirt lol)/straw
horse dung/straw/verm
coffee/coir/verm
various mixed composts from vendors
donkey dung/coir/verm


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Edited by eatyualive (09/07/14 11:53 PM)


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: eatyualive] * 1
    #20533938 - 09/08/14 12:02 AM (8 years, 24 days ago)

Ok i got that first part now now butif you put boiling water into a substrate that needs to be pasteurized aren't you defeating the purpose of pasteurizing(partiual sterilization)? EDIT: OK i Get it the boiling water is added to the Coir verm first and after it cools some (20 Min) the other ingredients that need pasteurization are added .... GOTCHA sorry for the confusion:awethumb:


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Edited by tombosley8 (09/08/14 12:08 AM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: tombosley8] * 1
    #20533985 - 09/08/14 12:14 AM (8 years, 24 days ago)

Yes. I would wait for it to coll before adding other ingredients like manure, coffee, or castings. I would imagine it takes longer than 20 mins though or you might partially sterilize the other substrate materials.


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20534054 - 09/08/14 12:31 AM (8 years, 24 days ago)

yeah im doing a 2 hour pasteurization when i add these ingredients. but i can see the beauty in doing this in an hour!

Its real quick and easy!

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
Ok i got that first part now now butif you put boiling water into a substrate that needs to be pasteurized aren't you defeating the purpose of pasteurizing(partiual sterilization)? EDIT: OK i Get it the boiling water is added to the Coir verm first and after it cools some (20 Min) the other ingredients that need pasteurization are added .... GOTCHA sorry for the confusion:awethumb:





the boiled water just breaks up the coir brick so that i can mix in the rest of the substrate. sorry follow spj's directions for plain CVG. im adding some things so i used a little different methods. i was trying to explain it earlier. hope this explains it.

and you can wait until the entire batch cools before pasteurizing it. you can wait longer than 20 minutes if you want.


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Edited by eatyualive (09/08/14 12:35 AM)


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OfflineBittrBuffalo
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20747549 - 10/24/14 10:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I'm seriously glad you wrote this. Vindication!!

This is relevant, and not an attempt to rehash this argument here. Anyone who wants to argue with me can do so elsewhere. With that said: I have had the *exact* same experience with bucket tek and get the same arguments. I've had the same clean agar, same clean grain spawn (seemingly, anyway), same everything until it comes down to spawning, then BOOM! Trich. Glad to see that proper pasteurization has worked for you, because it's the only thing I haven't tried to make this go away.

With that said, I have also had issues with coir not reaching full colonization, and there's some RR quote floating around essentially stating that it's not uncommon for uncooked coir to not reach full colonization because "raw" coir is hard for the mycelium to digest. Therefore cooking your coir helps break it down so you can achieve full colonization. Which, I guess is the point of this write up. I understand that my problems with the substrate not achieving full colonization could be due to the trich infection, but I would imagine that cooking the sub like this would replace the need for further treatment for contam-prevention. Has this totally obliterated any contam issues you've personally had in the past as a side effect? I seriously hope this would kill two birds with one stone.

:thanx:


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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: BittrBuffalo] * 1
    #20747638 - 10/24/14 10:44 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe I'm confused here. but In this tek, it seems like you are trying to say that you are not pasteurizing... even though you are totally pasteurizing. It doesn't matter what your intentions of the hot water bath are... you're still pasteurizing it.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpinScratch] * 1
    #20750985 - 10/25/14 07:02 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

This is not proper pasteurization. My temperature stays way above proper pasteurization temps.

The hour I leave it on the stove is the common pasteurization time, but don't be confused by this. I set my timer for an hour so that I don't forget to turn off the stove, but yet give the sub a solid cook time. I'm easily distracted and sometimes forgetful. You can set your timer for longer if you want.

Often, I just turn off the stove and go to bed or leave the house once the timer goes off. This means the CVG would be sitting too hot and too long for proper pasteurization.

Bucket Tek vs Pasteurization Thread


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


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Re: How Spitball Prepares CVG [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20751010 - 10/25/14 07:11 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:awethumb:


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