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Offlinec1dh3d
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Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive?
    #20458175 - 08/22/14 08:46 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Wanted to invest maybe $600 in some BTC to keep around for personal use, and wondering if the market has ups and downs, and I should wait for a crash or if $550 is a normal exchange rate. I saw it crashed to $450 last week but didn't have funds so I pulled cash out today to catch it next time.

What do you guys think, does it get much better than $550 for a btc or is that pretty much what it stays at unless it gets more expensive?

Watcha guys think? Might go grab a btc at around $570 on my lunch break just in case there is some super inflation out of nowhere, it doesn't seem like it really gets much lower than $500 for more than a day or so.

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: c1dh3d]
    #20483025 - 08/27/14 07:41 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

The price is at 514 right now, it is an extremely good time to buy IMO.

Buy buy buy. A year from now, it will be the best investment you ever made.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: c1dh3d] * 2
    #20501436 - 08/31/14 11:31 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I sold most mine off and wouldn't really want to buy unless it dipped into the double digits maybe.  I don't see bitcoin as an investment, I see it as a type of currency and means of facilitating trade.  Like cash, you don't invest in it - you trade with it and maybe speculate with it.

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OfflineDemore1029
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20503964 - 08/31/14 10:59 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Bitcoins are a useless investment. It all depends on the person who is willing to buy them that creates worth (like you for example). They are not even backed by anything. It's not worth it overall.

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Demore1029]
    #20505132 - 09/01/14 08:59 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I have watched the price of bitcoin go from $10 to 1k+...that is a x100 return on your money.

To say bitcoins are a useless investment is foolhardy. Many people have already been made millionaires off crypto.

There is no reason not to think that if bitcoins succeed in mainstream adoption, that in the long run their valuation per bitcoin could end up in the upper thousand's or even tens of thousands.

Maybe a pipe dream to you, but not really if you do the math :smile:

Edited by chopstick (09/01/14 09:01 AM)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: chopstick]
    #20518430 - 09/04/14 09:33 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

The govt is trying to keep them down, all govts for that matter. Reason being that they want to prop up their trashy fiat currency and if people see a viable alternative, demand for nearly worthless fiat will plummet along with the exchange rate.

BTC right now is about 475, coins are gaining acceptance day by day, more and more businesses are taking them since its easy to convert right away to dollars, euros, etc and avoid the risk of them declining. When they go into more general use is when you will see the value shoot up. There are bitcoin atms now!


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20520659 - 09/04/14 06:51 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

There is no reason wider acceptance necessitates higher prices.  It can help raise the price, but the pullback from the massive speculation that took place last fall can (and is) putting downward pressure on the coins.  That is why prices have dropped while adaptation has grown.  Bitcoins can function with higher adaptation and lower prices just fine, because most coins are not being circulated - they are being held on to.  Only when nearly all or most of the coins start being circulated will wider adaptation necessarily raise prices.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20520816 - 09/04/14 07:22 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Your guess on what is happening and why is as good as the next guy's. As they are more and more accepted, they will be in more demand, and last I heard, more demand and a fixed supply means higher prices.

I just bought something today, I thought I would have to pay by credit card with the attendant risk of identity theft but they take bitcoins so I paid that way. The papers only comment when a big vendor starts taking them like buy.com but every day more and more little vendors start taking them.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20521130 - 09/04/14 08:32 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

None of that address my claims.  Claims which are not guesses.  The current supply is not fixed.  Speculators are dumping their coins.  This frees up coins from hoarding into circulation which pushes the price down.  The price drop over the past year along with the increase in adaptation directly contradicts your claim.  If what you said were true the price would be higher than its max last fall, not lower.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20523489 - 09/05/14 09:28 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

>current supply is not fixed

The maximum number of bitcoins that can be mined is 21m. That is known as a fixed limit.

>Speculators are dumping their coins.  This frees up coins from hoarding into circulation which pushes the price down.

Other speculators are buying coins, regular people are buying them to make purchases on the dark net as well as normal legal purchases. This drives up demand for coins.

>The price drop over the past year along with the increase in adaptation directly contradicts your claim.  If what you said were true the price would be higher than its max last fall, not lower.

Not at all, price fluctuations are a normal part of any supply demand scenario. BTW, the price has not dropped over the past year, quite the contrary. On sept 6 2013 the price was $121, today its $486.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20523654 - 09/05/14 10:07 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You are avoiding the point because it does not suit you belief.

Quote:

If what you said were true the price would be higher than its max last fall, not lower.




Like usual, you are bullshit and nitpicking.  Increased adaptation does not force an increase in price.  Demand is not higher, its lower.  Price is not higher, its lower.  Coins used for transactions turn very quickly and do not increase demand much.  The faster they turn, the lower they increase demand and the less they drive up price.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20523846 - 09/05/14 10:45 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You explained the price variations yourself, speculators buying and then dumping. What has that to do with demand rising?

>Coins used for transactions turn very quickly and do not increase demand much.  The faster they turn, the lower they increase demand and the less they drive up price.

Do you know what demand is?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20525275 - 09/05/14 06:09 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Of course I do.  Coins being turned back and forth quickly does not increase demand much at all.  People using coins for transactions increase demand little because their use creates a buy and a sell for a net change of zero.  Its the hoarders and speculators that drive the demand now, and in the recent past.  Only when the turn around time is too long to keep up with the volume of transactions will transactions increase the demand.  At this point the price would raise prompting some of the hoarders/speculators to sell until the transactions are back in equilibrium.  With about 13 million coins out there at about 500 a piece there is the capability of doing lots of transactions without raising the price.  A coin can circulate from a buy to a purchase back to a sell in less than an hour, maybe even half an hour.  If only a fraction of those 13 million are circulating there is still the capability to do lots of transaction without raising the price.  Think about it.  If only 1 million coins are circulating at 500 a piece every hour that is 12 billion dollars worth of trade a day.  Purchasing services like coinbase and bitpay have plenty of room to circulate the same coins around and around with little need to hit up the exchanges.

Increased adaptation does not necessarily imply higher prices.  The lowering of prices along with increased adaptation substantiates this.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20525446 - 09/05/14 07:03 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Then I guess the fact that people rapidly spend dollars, euros, etc means there is little demand for them? Quite the contrary, the fact that currencies are traded frequently means there is considerable demand.

Today, coins trade for about 480. A year ago btc were trading for $121, 2 years ago, 11.1, three years ago, about 5.5 and 4 years ago, about 0.09. If that was a stock, it would be considered an exceptional performer. Your complaint seems to be that there were peaks and valleys. Well duh! if a stock or any goods went up linearly every single year without fail, everyone would want to buy it and that would in itself create peaks and valleys when the speculators get in and out.

Just yesterday I spent almost $100 on a product I wanted and saved having to use my credit card because they took coins. The vendor saved the cc fee and any chance of a chargeback so it was good for him too. People pay for things via mg or wu which costs money, around $10 or more per transaction and you have to go down, show id, answer questions and there is a record of it. Records exist also with a credit card and there is a risk of someone using it without authorization. There are many benefits from using btc and its very fast.

In the past there was speculation, still is, and people jumped on the bandwagon. Silkroad going down was a blow and then mt gox went down and stole people's money. Then usa, Russia, china and perhaps a few others banned or restricted it fearing a competitor to their own currency and not wanting people to be able to move their money around without govt interference. That plus the govt selling off thousands of coins seized from sr, also coins looted by hackers that were rapidly unloaded caused the price to fall out. Now there may be some large holders who are slowly liquidating which puts downward pressure on it. I think its a great time to get in, I own considerable coins myself, not any humongous amount but more than a few. I am poised to profit when another peak hits.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20529537 - 09/06/14 05:22 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Trade volume on localbitcoins.com has increased massively. Previous ATH was exceeded by 350K, and the weekend still isn't over.

https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/localbtcUSD#igWeeklyzm1g10zm2g25zi1gVolzvzcv

Edited by chopstick (09/06/14 07:16 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: chopstick]
    #20532188 - 09/07/14 08:18 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Then I guess the fact that people rapidly spend dollars, euros, etc means there is little demand for them? Quite the contrary, the fact that currencies are traded frequently means there is considerable demand.




Those are two different things.  The answer to your first question is yes.  When an entity accepts a dollar then spends the dollar that entity has contributed zero demand.  In the interim while they hold it that demand is not zero, but that interim is low.  (The lower the better because holding currency is not desirable.)  When you trade currency for another currency and hold it then you have increased demand.  "Frequent trading" means there are lots of sellers and lots of buyers.  "Considerable demand" means that buyers outweigh sellers.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20532248 - 09/07/14 08:34 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

>When an entity accepts a dollar then spends the dollar that entity has contributed zero demand.  In the interim while they hold it that demand is not zero, but that interim is low.

But you forgot that someone had to acquire that dollar in the first place which creates demand. In order to spend it someone has to want to buy it which perpetuates the cycle.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20532343 - 09/07/14 09:15 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I don't forget that, I know how circulation works.  Of course someone acquired that dollar in the first place, and if they spend it that creates a net demand of zero for the dollar.  It creates a non-zero demand for the good or service used to acquire the dollar and bought with the dollar.  A circulating dollar creates demand for the goods and services offered for and bought by the circulated dollar.  That cycle does not necessarily raise the price of the dollar nor does it necessarily raise the price of a bitcoin when bitcoin is bought with dollars and then sold right off for dollars after the transaction.  Of course this is how currency works best, circulating and creating demand for goods and services along the way.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: DieCommie]
    #20552459 - 09/11/14 10:14 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I wonder if when paypal and ebay officially adopt bitcoin, will the price shoot up overnight or just gradually drift upward? I don't think anyone can seriously say that will not increase demand substantially. Now is the time to grab some before it takes off.

After ebay does it, will amazon be far behind? I heard that some vendors there will take it now but that has not been confirmed, its not an official payment yet. When paypal takes coin, they will have to offer to convert it instantly if people wish. That solves the problem of buying and selling. That alone will boost use and demand a lot.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there a good price point to buy bitcoins at? Is $550 (current) a bit expensive? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20554688 - 09/11/14 07:26 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

PayPal bitcoin? lol, no way.  The philosophies dont mix.  PayPal is a high fee service designed to protect buyers by allowing chargebacks.  BitCoin is a low fee protocol that has no chargebacks whatsoever.  In the early years of bitcoin you could get your paypal account locked and shutdown just for using it to buy or sell bitcoins.  (don't know if that is still the case)

BitCoin is a solution to the stranglehold of paypal and it is a dangerous innovation to paypal.  Amazon would happen before ebay or paypal.

BitCoin is slow to propagate and instant transactions just don't work with its protocol.  A scammer could spend and then double spend before the first confirmed and have the second spend go through screwing the first.  Its a big problem, something the successor to bitcoin will have to solve.  Otherwise, using a service like paypal to mediate the transaction negates the purpose of using bitcoin to begin with.

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