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psychopsilocyber
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
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Know your substance-MAOI's
#2044598 - 10/26/03 12:07 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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So this weekend my friend comes over and says he'll be eating mushrooms later in the night and asked if he could have some syrian rue extract. He knows a lot about it from what I told him, what not to do, why to do it, what happens in your brain when you do it and so forth. Well I asked him are you sure you want to do this? I dont know if you know what you're in for. He says yes and I trust his judgement because I know he's not easily broken down by hallucinogens. So I give him the maoi's. I talked to him this morning and he said he ate a quarter with the extract, I know what that's like, anyway he had the best trip of his life....Even though he had an old friend with him, a bit of an arigant(sp?) guy, our age (17ish). His friend thought it was unfare that he didnt get maoi's and decided to cry about it and my friend ended up giving in(not right away) and giving him half of the extract to go along with his quarter of mushrooms. Buddy tried to kill my friend 2 times, flipped his fucken wig piece. At one point my friend wakes up to see buddy walking around naked masturbating and laughing. My friend got the fuck outta there. Buddy says he woke up and there was meat from the freezer all over his room and he was naked and it was cold and his friends were gone.
So as you can see this experience can be very good, and very bad. Not for everyone. As for me it's my favorite.
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Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
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This type of negative experience can happen without rue, of course, and on any major psychedelic. The kid did not freak out because of the p. harmala, but because he has a strong, intact ego and was perhaps not in the best set/setting.
-------------------- As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
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Anonymous
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Xochitl]
#2046254 - 10/27/03 12:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Xochitl - or the food that he had before the harmala was taken affected his brain...
don't fuck around with MAOI's if you understand them. YOU CAN DIE FROM THEM!! with the wrong food. please be careful.
I am glad you posted it, psychopsilocyber. I like to see awareness like that. its a reality check for people.
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Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: ]
#2046333 - 10/27/03 12:53 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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from erowid's MAOI vault:
Quote:
Possible Side Effects of MAOIs Most Common Side Effects dry mouth light-headedness, dizziness low blood pressure headache (mild) sleepiness, tiredness, weakness trouble sleeping muscle twitching during sleep shakiness, trembling, restlessness blurred vision weight gain reduced tolerance for alcohol decreased amount of urine decreased sexual ability increased appetite (especially for sweets) or weight gain Less common side effects High Blood pressure may occur if you eat restricted foods or medications. Early symptoms of rising blood pressure may include stiff neck, headache, palpitations, chest pain, nausea or vomiting, flushing or chills, apprehension, pallor or sweating. This can lead to hypertensive crisis (extremely high blood pressure) and when severe and can be life-threatening. Stop taking the MAO Inhibitor and get emergency help if you experience signs of very high blood pressure including: Severe chest pain fast or slow heartbeat; Severe headaches Severe Dizziness or lightheadedness increased sweating (possibly with fever or cold, clammy skin) nausea and vomiting stiff or sore neck swelling of feet or lower legs increased sensitivity of eyes to light enlarged pupils Rare Side Effects Dark urine fever skin rash slurred speech sore throat staggering walk yellow eyes or skin Some side effects are not serious. However, tell your doctor if these bother you or do not go away, or if you experience any other unexplained side effects.
MAOIs do not necessarily cause someone to have a psychotic reaction, as you can see. Perhaps the potentizing effect of harmala + psilocybes was too strong for this individual. His intact ego (his crying for not having is evidence of this) combined with a possible lack of experience and a possible poor set/setting planted the seed for this episode. Yes, MAOI can be dangerous in untrained, uncareful hands, and everyone should be well-versed in the required safety precautions, but no need to create hysteria my friend.
Quote:
Buddy tried to kill my friend 2 times, flipped his fucken wig piece. At one point my friend wakes up to see buddy walking around naked masturbating and laughing. My friend got the fuck outta there. Buddy says he woke up and there was meat from the freezer all over his room and he was naked and it was cold and his friends were gone.
Sounds like a classic badtrip and not like any of the side effects listed above.
-------------------- As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
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back in the day, we had various stuffs... a friend was having a music-jam at his folks' farm out in the country... some cactus chips were available, as well as some harmala salts & a buncha other stuff... we were zoomin' pretty good, the music was out there, the neighbors cows had to be awake ... & the phone rang and silly paul answered it (always a bad idea whilst trippin' ...) -- some sorta personal biz, but he got really pissed off during the conversation.. and the "rage" hormones that his body cranked out lasted for _hours_ instead of minutes... so, don't get angry while doin' MAOIs i guess, hehheh...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Anonymous
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: gnrm23]
#2047385 - 10/27/03 12:43 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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wow thats a cool story.. I can't believe he was mad for that long only because of a MAOI's. hehe I will remember that one for MAOI's.
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Bhairabas
Stranger
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: ]
#2047634 - 10/27/03 01:59 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Same here after doing syrian rue I almost never trip without it.. I find it makes the visuals more intense but but easier on the brain.. It also makes the come down alot easier.. All my friends I told about it said the same..
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Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Bhairabas]
#2047697 - 10/27/03 02:23 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Syrian Rue seems to have a very calming effect for most people when taken with psilocybes.
-------------------- As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
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Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Xochitl]
#2047719 - 10/27/03 02:59 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I can't believe he was mad for that long only because of a MAOI's. hehe I will remember that one for MAOI's
No, sorry. The phone guy gnrm32 spoke of did not became angry only because of a MAOI. That is silly. He was on a trip and was presented with a surprise and abrupt stimuli that warped his set (emotional well being), and he reacted negatively.
-------------------- As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Xochitl]
#2047771 - 10/27/03 03:18 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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pharmacologically, his body pumped out some adrenaline/noradrenaline from gettin' super-PO'd from the phone conversation, and with his monoamineoxidase enzyme inhibited, it couldn't metabolize...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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theshiftingwalls
Divine state
Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: gnrm23]
#2049512 - 10/28/03 12:58 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Never mix MAOI's with 5-meo-AMT. You could DIE!
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zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
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Why the fuck would you think that?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: zeta]
#2049746 - 10/28/03 04:08 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Never mix MAOI's with 5-meo-AMT. You could DIE!
Reference, please?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Your a fucking idiot, why do you still post here?
PLEASE stop posting misinformation.
(mods - why do you not consider an IP ban? This poster is a repeated abuser of the rules.)
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: PDU]
#2050672 - 10/28/03 01:38 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would if i could man, but posting misinformation isnt really against the rules, neither is stupidity. although i wish they were sometimes. and theshifting walls, a lot of your posts are borderline flame/offtopic. please dont post unless you have some credible helpful information, Mkay.
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Infrared]
#2050918 - 10/28/03 03:04 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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"you could die" ~ wayyyy back in the day some friends came upon 6 capsules, which they divided between the 2 of them... so each person ended up disposing of: 200 mg harmine HCl 200 mg harmaline HCl 25 mg 5F-aMT (yep, 5-fluoro-alphamethyl-tryptamine!) this while they were out camping, with no cold coca-cola or other civilized amenties... and from what they reported to me, they mostly just _wished_ they could die... in retrospect, it seem possible that the material they had on hand could have been adequate for 4 people... if ya live, maybe ya learn...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Infrared
sleeping
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: gnrm23]
#2051010 - 10/28/03 03:35 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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you could also die from drinking 3 gallons of water in under an hour. you could die from lots of things, i wouldnt reccomend anyone take an maoi with alpha-o-dimethylserotonin. your mao's in your body cant even effect it one bit so it would be rather redundant to try and enhance its effects. and if im not mistaken harmaline and tetra-harmaline activate almost the identical sites as 5-meo-amt. it just seems like a long long overload and a non enjoyable experience. i think shiftingwalls is thinking of the alpha-methyl-phenethylamine(amphetamine) combination with an maoi, which is most certainly deadly.
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: gnrm23]
#2052479 - 10/29/03 12:03 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pharmacologically, his body pumped out some adrenaline/noradrenaline from gettin' super-PO'd from the phone conversation, and with his monoamineoxidase enzyme inhibited, it couldn't metabolize...
Can anyone else confirm this?
-------------------- As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
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zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Infrared]
#2055575 - 10/29/03 11:32 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeepBlue42 said: i think shiftingwalls is thinking of the alpha-methyl-phenethylamine(amphetamine) combination with an maoi, which is most certainly deadly.
Got a reference?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: zeta]
#2056350 - 10/30/03 04:45 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Got a reference?
Yes.
From: http://www.drugs.com/amphetamine.html
Do not take amphetamine if you have taken a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) such as isocarboxazid (Marplan), tranylcypromine (Parnate), or phenelzine (Nardil) in the last 14 days.
From: http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html
Contraindicated Drugs: (with an MAOI) amphetamines, cocaine, MDMA, opiates, barbiturates, deconjestants & allergy medications, cold medications, diet pills, methylphenidate, asthma inhalers, meperidine, levodopa, dopamine, carbamazapine, certain antihypertensive medications, sympathomimetic amines (direct & indirect acting) including psuedoephedrine & ephidrine
From: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml
combining an MAO inhibitor plus MDMA has led to a hypertensive crisis and a near-fatal response in many people!!! This could be anticipated because MDMA is a substituted amphetamine, and stimulants should not be combined with an MAO inhibitor!!! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!
I could go on, but I wont.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Seuss]
#2056822 - 10/30/03 10:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok then how about takeing DTP oraly with an MAOI anyone ever tryed this combo as i may in future try this.
-------------------- Fighting the man the best way I can.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: EvilGir]
#2057264 - 10/30/03 01:31 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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what's DTP ? there are a few reports at places like www.erowid.org & www.lycaeum.org about combos of harmine & dpt... gee, maybe even here, idunno (utfse...) pretreatment with MAOi might make oral dosing of DPT HCl more "reliable", who knows?
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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RespectTheFungus
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: gnrm23]
#2058552 - 10/30/03 08:02 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hm i still can't decide whether to take my syrian rue capsules tommarow night with the shrooms, but everyone says it makes the trip stronger so i think i might do them.
-------------------- "With a bit of luck, his life was ruined forever. Always thinking that just behind some narrow door in all of his favorite bars, men in red woolen shirts are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."
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psilojoe
Mr
Registered: 10/19/03
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I have a bag of Syrian rue and want to take it the next time i trip on shrooms, problem is i have heard all sorts of different suggestions for the quantity to take and i dont know who to believe, can someone please tell me an accurate dosage for 1 person, 1 trip, preferably erring on the side of caution as its my first time with any MAO inhibitor and i dont want to overdo it, much appreciated, psilojoe
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psychopsilocyber
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: psilojoe]
#2058931 - 10/30/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whatever you do don't eat the seeds strait or crushed, you must do atleast a simple water extraction or you'll most likely get very sick for a while.
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psychopsilocyber
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
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Since there's already a lot of good info in this thread I'll add some more. Here is how the MAOI's are said to work on the brain...
First, how the brain works normaly; the brain cells all have senders(axons) and receivers(dendrites) and the space between the axon and the dendrite is called the synapse.
So What happens is the seritonin(or in our case psilocin) is released from the axon, sent through the synapse, and is either received into the dendrite. Sometimes there is too much being sent to receive or for whatever reason it bounces back from the dendrite to a re-uptake receiver on the axon. When the psilocin is re-uptaken into the axon it meets up with MAO, which breaks down the psilocin. If the MAO is inhibited then when the psilocin is re-uptaken in will not break down, but will be sent again across the synapse.
So in effect, the psilocin lasts much longer in your brain, also the harmine/harmaline has an effect on it's own.
I've noticed I can tell when my MAO is inhibited by the way my mind speeds up and becomes more articulate, it's the kind of trip where the visuals arent the most important part of the trip, your mind is observing the beauty, but at the same time your mind is radiating with pathologic insanity. Sometimes it's hard to slow your train of thought down to articulate. Anyway like I may have said it's probably not a good idea to use MAOIs with mushrooms untill you can explain how it works on your brain(or at least what we know of how it works) so that's why I wrote all that.
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theshiftingwalls
Divine state
Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
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Re: Know your substance-MAOI's [Re: Infrared]
#2059505 - 10/31/03 12:45 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeepBlue42 said: i think shiftingwalls is thinking of the alpha-methyl-phenethylamine(amphetamine) combination with an maoi, which is most certainly deadly.
Yes, I meant any thing with a semi-amphetamine like I was saying about 5-MeO-AMT.
5-MeO-AMT is like an amphetamine. In a way.
So dont do IT!
Amphetamines + MAOI's = Death
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RespectTheFungus
Fungus Fan
Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 720
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Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Quote:
psychopsilocyber said: Since there's already a lot of good info in this thread I'll add some more. Here is how the MAOI's are said to work on the brain...
First, how the brain works normaly; the brain cells all have senders(axons) and receivers(dendrites) and the space between the axon and the dendrite is called the synapse.
So What happens is the seritonin(or in our case psilocin) is released from the axon, sent through the synapse, and is either received into the dendrite. Sometimes there is too much being sent to receive or for whatever reason it bounces back from the dendrite to a re-uptake receiver on the axon. When the psilocin is re-uptaken into the axon it meets up with MAO, which breaks down the psilocin. If the MAO is inhibited then when the psilocin is re-uptaken in will not break down, but will be sent again across the synapse.
So in effect, the psilocin lasts much longer in your brain, also the harmine/harmaline has an effect on it's own.
I've noticed I can tell when my MAO is inhibited by the way my mind speeds up and becomes more articulate, it's the kind of trip where the visuals arent the most important part of the trip, your mind is observing the beauty, but at the same time your mind is radiating with pathologic insanity. Sometimes it's hard to slow your train of thought down to articulate. Anyway like I may have said it's probably not a good idea to use MAOIs with mushrooms untill you can explain how it works on your brain(or at least what we know of how it works) so that's why I wrote all that.
Thats a great explaination psychopsilocyber, it makes me want to take the capules i have tonight. I'm going to be doing a 1/8 of some good shrooms and the friend that gave me the syrian rue said all 6 capsules make up 3 grams. It sounds like syrian rue makes mushrooms way more intense so i would like to do it.
One thing though, will taking the 6 capsules make me sick at all? I see someone posted that in this thread. I wouldnt want the Syrian rue to mess up my shroom trip, but i dont want to miss out either. Peace.
-------------------- "With a bit of luck, his life was ruined forever. Always thinking that just behind some narrow door in all of his favorite bars, men in red woolen shirts are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."
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psychopsilocyber
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
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Yeah, like I just said, it's not a good idea to eat the seeds without doing an extraction. If you do make sure you're at home where you can get to your toilet if you need too.
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