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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2046607 - 10/27/03 03:55 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Sad? How humble of you.

All I'm saying is that some kind of racist double standard is probably, and most likely at play.



Bullshit, you said no such thing. Since you "appear" to have forgotten what you said, I'll paste it for you.

"Racist, double standard."

Forgive me but I don't see the words "probably" or "most likely" there anywhere.


Quote:

Righties like to look the other way of course.



No, I just like evidence before leaping to conclusions.


Quote:

Look at the media coverage of Jessica Lynch, and Elizabeth Smart. Compare that coverage to that of Shoshana Johnson and Alexis Patterson - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/20/national/main512915.shtml .

Not only was there a double standard in the media coverage of Lynch, not to mention an all-out inflated account of the rescue; but now - we have this whole health benefit bias, while Shoshana (the one who was actually injured) gets 30% and Jessica is shooshing all over a mountain.




Some stories take on a life of their own. To claim that it is racism without proof can only be a sign of someone who WANTS it to be racism.


Quote:

Sad.



I stand by that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2046864 - 10/27/03 08:39 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bullshit, you said no such thing. Since you "appear" to have forgotten what you said, I'll paste it for you.

"Racist, double standard."

Forgive me but I don't see the words "probably" or "most likely" there anywhere.




Hey, if I had said right of the bat "Probably a racist, double standard." it wouldn't have deterred you from all your 'Sad' and 'Bullshit' comments. So either way, I believe there was some kind of slight racist double standard. Like ss7 said, racism doesn't have to be blatantly obvious to be considered racism.

Quote:

No, I just like evidence before leaping to conclusions.




Consider this, if it was racism no one would ever know - so of course, you would opt to do nothing because 'there's no proof', so why even bother considering it. How presumptuous of you (of course, you're going to say same thing about me).

Quote:

Some stories take on a life of their own. To claim that it is racism without proof can only be a sign of someone who WANTS it to be racism.




I don't think there's been as much media coverage on Elizabeth Smart than there has been of any missing minority child. The Smart story took off because she's white, and came from a wealthy family.

Quote:

I stand by that.




A simple question luv, why is Shoshana; the one who actually got shot, is getting the raw end of the military benefits? Because Jessica Lynch is thinner, or something?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2047133 - 10/27/03 10:52 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
No, what's sad is that without any type of proof, you and others leap to the conclusion racism is the only possible reason for this.



Show me where I said it was the only possible reason.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2047186 - 10/27/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Zahid writes:

A simple question luv, why is Shoshana; the one who actually got shot, is getting the raw end of the military benefits? Because Jessica Lynch is thinner, or something?

What is this obsession with "actually shot", anyway? Disability pensions are determined on the degree of permanent disability. It makes no difference to the disability board whether the injury was a result of bullets, shrapnel, a helicopter crash, or a tank running over your legs.

Do we know that Johnson's bullet wounds are more permanently disabling than Lynch's injuries from the crash? No, we don't.

pinky


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Phred]
    #2047768 - 10/27/03 03:17 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Shit pinky... it's much easier to assume it's racism than possibly being based on anything else.

Let's keep the bloods down!





So, to those who keep tossing that stupid word around with no evidence, thought, brains, or care...

Not only do you make yourselves appear to be major dumbasses, you'll soon cause everyone to become so tired of the bullshit claims that the word will lose it's shock value.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2047791 - 10/27/03 03:25 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Please, tell us then, LDS: Why do you think Jessica Lynch got all the media attention(as well as a better deal fromt he military) rather than Shoshana Johnson?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: silversoul7]
    #2047863 - 10/27/03 03:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Please, tell us then, LDS: Why do you think Jessica Lynch got all the media attention



I don't know, perhaps because she was more photogenic and because the rescue made for better press?


Quote:

(as well as a better deal fromt he military) rather than Shoshana Johnson?



Without seeing the records of the disability hearing how the fuck would I know? What an amazingly stupid question. As pinky pointed out we don't know the extent and just how permanent the injuries are. Perhaps it's even based partly on how long one is held captive.

Since I'm not blessed with your ability to leap to a conclusion without all the facts, neither foolish question can be answered by me.

To leap to the conclusion that is was based strictly on race is not only moronic, but says something about the character of those who do so.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Phred]
    #2047978 - 10/27/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What is this obsession with "actually shot", anyway? Disability pensions are determined on the degree of permanent disability. It makes no difference to the disability board whether the injury was a result of bullets, shrapnel, a helicopter crash, or a tank running over your legs.

Do we know that Johnson's bullet wounds are more permanently disabling than Lynch's injuries from the crash? No, we don't.




Actually, we do. Not only does Shoshana have to live with her injuries, she has to raise a child with them.

------------------

Published on Saturday, October 25, 2003 by the Sydney Morning Herald (Australia)
Insult to Injury: Raw Deal for Jessica Lynch's Black Comrade-In-Arms
by Lee Hockstader in Austin, Texas


Shot through both legs and held prisoner in Iraq for 22 days, Shoshana Johnson returned home to a difficult convalescence that lacked the media fury and official hype that attended her friend and comrade in arms Jessica Lynch.

Depressed, scarred, haunted by the trauma of her captivity and at times unable to sleep, Specialist Johnson walks with a limp and has difficulty standing for long. Now that she is on the verge of her discharge, the US Army is aggravating her injury, her parents say.

While Private Lynch was discharged in August with an 80 per cent disability benefit, Specialist Johnson learnt last week she will receive a 30 per cent disability benefit from the army for her injuries.

The difference, which amounts to $US700 ($1000) a month in payments, has infuriated Specialist Johnson and her family. They have enlisted the help of the Reverend Jesse Jackson to take their case to the news media, accusing the army of double standards, insensitivity and racism - Private Lynch is white; Specialist Johnson is black.

"Race clearly is a factor," said Mr Jackson, who will take up Specialist Johnson's cause with the White House, the Pentagon and members of Congress.

"Here's a case of two women, same [unit], same war - everything about their service commitment and their risk is equal . . . Yet there's an enormous contrast between how the military has handled these two cases."

Claude Johnson, Shoshana Johnson's father and himself an army veteran, said his family did not begrudge Private Lynch her celebrity or her disability payments. But he said he believed his daughter should also get what she was due. He believes the army owes her more than the 30 per cent of disability benefit, which translates into 30 per cent of her base monthly pay - or about $US500. "There is [a double standard]," Mr Johnson said.

Specialist Johnson is 30, has a three-year-old daughter and has been living at home. She will not speak publicly about the terms of her discharge.

But her parents said she was stunned and angered when the army informed her of its decision on her disability.

When her unit blundered into an ambush in Iraq on March 23, 11 of its soldiers were killed.

Six, including Private Lynch and Specialist Johnson, were taken prisoner. In a videotape taken shortly after their capture, Specialist Johnson appeared terrified, her eyes darting back and forth among her captors.

Private Lynch was rescued on April 2. Her colleagues were released on April 13.

Copyright ? 2003. The Sydney Morning Herald


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2047994 - 10/27/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't see anything there mentioning Lynch's injuries.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2048002 - 10/27/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

That's because Shoshana Johnson is the one who was actually seriously injured.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2048012 - 10/27/03 04:43 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
That's because Shoshana Johnson is the one who was actually seriously injured.



So now your all seeing abilities have somehow been able to read not only medical records but disability hearing transcripts as well?

I am in awe of your ability.

And I mourn your loss of ability to reason.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2048029 - 10/27/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

From what I understand Lynch was somewhat injured from the initial crash - however, no where do you see Jessica Lynch limping around like Johnson. Not to mention Lynch has the book deal which offers more money than many even dream about.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2048042 - 10/27/03 04:56 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Please, tell us then, LDS: Why do you think Jessica Lynch got all the media attention



I don't know, perhaps because she was more photogenic and because the rescue made for better press?



I agree, but why was she more photogenic and why did her rescue make for better press? My guess is because Jessica Lynch has a more "All-American" aka White American look and name. I wouldn't say it's so much color-racism as it is cultural racism. I mean, how are you gonna get Americans rallied around someone named "Shoshona"? The media pandered to the American public which, whether they know it or not, have a cultural bias. It's partly the media, but it really has to do with our culture itself.

Quote:

Quote:

(as well as a better deal fromt he military) rather than Shoshana Johnson?



Without seeing the records of the disability hearing how the fuck would I know? What an amazingly stupid question. As pinky pointed out we don't know the extent and just how permanent the injuries are. Perhaps it's even based partly on how long one is held captive.

Since I'm not blessed with your ability to leap to a conclusion without all the facts, neither foolish question can be answered by me.



One need not have all the facts to notice that something just isn't right here. I'm not necessarily saying it's racism, but given the facts we do know, it seems a likely possibility, and it would be foolish to rule it out. I could go through your post history to show that you have indeed leapt to conclusions without all the facts in many cases, but I'll save myself energy, since your hypocrisy is not relevant to this discussion.

Quote:

To leap to the conclusion that is was based strictly on race is not only moronic, but says something about the character of those who do so.



I never said race was the only factor, only that it seems to have played a role here.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2048051 - 10/27/03 04:59 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
From what I understand Lynch was somewhat injured from the initial crash - however, no where do you see Jessica Lynch limping around like Johnson.



Disability can be based on factors including mental stress. Got a psychologists report on either? Got copies of the medical records? Got copies of anything besides interviews done by pissed off parents?

No? Didn't think so. It seems all you have is a word and the desire to use it.


Quote:

Not to mention Lynch has the book deal which offers more money than many even dream about.



So what? Was Hillarys book worth 8mil? Even the publisher had said they'll never recoup that. Hillary was a media darling, so was Jessica. Jessica was rescued (such as it was), Johnson was released with little or no fanfare.

What about the others captured? I don't here you squawking about them not getting a book deal. Now there's a double standard.

Perhaps you need to do a little self examination to see where your need to declare "racism" stems from. It sure isn't from the known facts.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: silversoul7]
    #2048058 - 10/27/03 05:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

As far as I can see, the only way race is involved is in some of the more feeble minds here.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2048067 - 10/27/03 05:05 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Then you must not be able to see very far. Consider going to an optometrist.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: silversoul7]
    #2048079 - 10/27/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Then you must not be able to see very far. Consider going to an optometrist.



Almost clever but it, like most of your opinions, falls short.

How about backing your thoughts on this up with some proof since you're so sure of yourself.

And I'll repeat what I've said on other occasions. I hope you are never tried and convicted on a "feeling", because you've got nothing else.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2048092 - 10/27/03 05:14 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Disability can be based on factors including mental stress. Got a psychologists report on either? Got copies of the medical records? Got copies of anything besides interviews done by pissed off parents?

No? Didn't think so. It seems all you have is a word and the desire to use it.




Dr. Harith al-Houssona, a doctor in the Nasirya hospital, described Lynch's injuries as "a broken arm, a broken thigh, and a dislocated ankle." According to al-Houssona, there was no sign of gunshot or stab wounds, and Lynch's injuries were consistent with those that would be suffered in a road traffic accident. Al-Houssona's claims were later confirmed in a U.S. Army report leaked on July 10, 2003.

Let's not forget the so-called rescue of Lynch from the hospital - where she was taken care of and was found unguarded (although you probably believe the mainstream media version of the rescue to be more accurate). The book deal has alot to do with this, because of the money involved. Shoshana herself believes race has some play in this - but what you're suggesting is that this complete smack in Johnson's face has to do with 'Lynch's mental stress' being somewhat greater than the crippled Specialist Johnson. Lynch is writing a book, the incident is obviously behind her - and now she's going to get a cool million out of. Given that, race likely did have some role - subtle enough that pretentious conservative assholes can keep damage control on the situation. Unfortunately.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: Zahid]
    #2048185 - 10/27/03 06:36 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

(although you probably believe the mainstream media version of the rescue to be more accurate).



That goes beyond foolish into the realm of sheer stupidity. I thought a bit better of you than that.


Quote:

Shoshana herself believes race has some play in this



No shit? You think?


Quote:

but what you're suggesting is that this complete smack in Johnson's face has to do with 'Lynch's mental stress' being somewhat greater than the crippled Specialist Johnson.



I'm suggesting possibilities which are far more likely than the military as a whole, which goes above and beyond to hire minorities, being racist. I'd be amazed if they didn't go above and beyond to be fair if for no other reasons than people like you.


Quote:

Given that, race likely did have some role



Yeah, a role in your mind. As I've said before, you have no access to records or evidence so you fall back on the "racism tactic", which is lame and getting more so each time it is used.



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2048257 - 10/27/03 06:58 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


That goes beyond foolish into the realm of sheer stupidity. I thought a bit better of you than that.




If the actual rescue did concur with the media account, there shouldn't have been a controversy over it.

Quote:

No shit? You think?




What are you implying? Why would her claim be erroneous?

Quote:

I'm suggesting possibilities which are far more likely than the military as a whole, which goes above and beyond to hire minorities, being racist. I'd be amazed if they didn't go above and beyond to be fair if for no other reasons than people like you.




This double standard is more than likely subjective, luv. I thought you already presumed this assertion of mine.

Quote:

Yeah, a role in your mind. As I've said before, you have no access to records or evidence so you fall back on the "racism tactic", which is lame and getting more so each time it is used.




Why are you so quick to rule it out?


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