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Offlinemonoamine
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Libertarians-your take on the FDA?
    #2042921 - 10/25/03 10:21 PM (14 years, 28 days ago)

It has long been established that a lot of the left leaners on here point out that corporate beaucracy under a totally deregulated capitalist system of what the right leaning libertarians have in mind would be just as bad or worse as governmental interference.

So libertarians,I pose a question for you: what would happen to the Food and Drug Adminstration? Do you honestly think that corporations would regulate themselves? Because honestly,I find that pretty laughable in this day and age when drugs are approved faster and faster and rolled off the assembly line like candy.

How would this be regulated under a decentralized system? What would keep drug companies from creating and marketing potentially deadly or harmful drugs without the rigorous scrutinity imposed by the FDA? And if they were regulated by consumer demands and drug companies were forced to regulate themselves,how many people would be harmed in the process?

I would also like to point out that before the FDA was formed,all kinds of toxic chemicals were sold with little scrutinity over the counter.

Your thoughts?


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: monoamine]
    #2043069 - 10/25/03 11:51 PM (14 years, 28 days ago)

Well I think that regulation isn't a bad thing in today's world, because there is nothing else stopping the corporations from selling unsafe products.

The number one thing that I think would help curb this is to make Corporations (and possibly the CEO or whole board of executives) criminally responsible for harm caused by unsafe products or harm caused by not informing consumers of potential risks.

If that were the case, and Pharma X put out a drug that ended up killing or injuring anyone either because they did not give proper warning to dangers or didn't give any warning at all, Pharma X and it's board of execs are held personally responsible under the criminal law.

They have harmed a person, and deserve to be punished. By holding the people in charge of the company responsible it should make corporate exec's think seriously about products that may harm someone.


--------------------
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And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: trendal]
    #2043105 - 10/26/03 12:12 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

The number one thing that I think would help curb this is to make Corporations (and possibly the CEO or whole board of executives) criminally responsible for harm caused by unsafe products or harm caused by not informing consumers of potential risks.




Pretty much every drug known causes deaths. Aspirin and its phamacological relatives (the NSAIDs) cause about 7,600 deaths in the US every year (and another 76,000 hospitalizations). According to Canadian researchers, approximately 32,000 hospitalized patients (and possibly as many as 106,000) in the US die each year because of adverse reactions to their prescribed medications.

Surely you weren't suggesting that a little fine print on the drug bottle listing every known medical complication that might occur would get these people off the hook?

At the other extreme, if these people are held personally accountable every time somebody dies from taking a drug their company produces, then no sane person would consider manufacturing drugs, regardless of how profitable or beneficial it might be.

Certainly, drug manufacturers shouldn't be permitted to release unsafe drugs into the marketplace. The problem comes in how we decide what's unsafe. The current system is too subject to abuse and corruption.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2043118 - 10/26/03 12:17 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

Heh, no of course I don't think drug companies should be in trouble for every person who hurts themselves with a drug they produced. But if a company deliberately or indeliberately fails to disclose information about dangers of a drug, I think they should definately be held criminally accountable.

A little fine print? Yeah, that may be all that's needed. Surely you can't say that people who fail to read about what they are putting into their bodies are victims? If they are victims it is only of their own ignorance.

A slip is provided with ALL medication (at least in Canada) which alerts you to the possible dangers of the medication. It is your responsibility to read the directions before you put it into your body.

So yeah, if a company provides the warnings with the medication they are off the hook and should be.


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: trendal]
    #2043154 - 10/26/03 12:34 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

The number one thing that I think would help curb this is to make Corporations (and possibly the CEO or whole board of executives) criminally responsible for harm caused by unsafe products or harm caused by not informing consumers of potential risks.




Yeah,but you would need some kind of regulatory body to do this,so we're back at were we started.

And if you're talking about holding people criminally responsible after the fact,I don't think that would work that well. You have to pre emptively stop the drugs from being marketed in the first place.

I want to see what the "righties" have to say about this...


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (10/26/03 12:36 AM)


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: monoamine]
    #2043161 - 10/26/03 12:38 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

You have to pre emptively stop the drugs from being marketed in the first place.

Throw a few corporate CEO's (and/or the board of execs) in jail for murder and I think the rest of them would get the message. As it stands now I don't think the CEO himself can be held responsible, only the "corporation" as an entity (could be wrong on this). If the CEO/exec's knew that releasing a drug without warning people of the dangers could land them serious jail time (I'd say no less than Life) they would probably think twice about the idea of "acceptable loss".


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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Offlinebiglo
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: trendal]
    #2043227 - 10/26/03 01:04 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

You're missing the point, if you make laws TOO strict, companies will just get out of the drug making market, and no innovation will occur. That's the only problem. You want to help make a new cancer drug? Well if it even kills one person you're going to jail for life! Thus new cancer drug doesn't get made. Threat of being sued has really stifled innovation in many key industries in America. But that's not to say that people can just be killed to keep that profit margin up either.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: biglo]
    #2043717 - 10/26/03 02:43 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

No, you are missing my point :smirk:

I never said anything about TOO strict laws. I said I think that drug companies should make available with the drug itself information about the risks of the drug. If I bought some aspirin and took too much without reading the directions on the box and also the warnings on the sheet included in the box then it's my fault for not taking proper responsibility for my own actions. No one by me should be at fault.

Say a company makes a new cancer drug. They find that there is a small risk of death with some people with the drug. They include the information about this and all other risks with the drug itself. Someone either fails to learn about the drug (STUPID!) or learns about the risk and decides to take it anyway. The company would not be liable in such a case, nor should they be.

But what if a company develops a new cancer drug that has a slight or even significant risk of death, but they do not make this information available? Then someone could unknowningly, even if they look at all the available information, use the drug improperly and be harmed by it. Someone should get in serious trouble for this. They marketed a product towards a group of people without notifying anyone of the potential dangers of their product. That sounds like criminal neglegence to me. Leading to death. It's murder.

What's worse is...this is most often done for $$$.  :confused:


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: trendal]
    #2044096 - 10/26/03 06:12 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

The other side of this is that I can produce a drug, not bother with any sort of worrying about safety, and just make a tiny print list of all the bad things that any drugs are known to cause. And now I'm off the hook, just because I slapped a little boilerplate on a piece of paper insert.

That seems like an acceptable way to have things?


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2044403 - 10/26/03 11:51 AM (14 years, 27 days ago)

No, of course not.


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Libertarians-your take on the FDA? [Re: trendal]
    #2044636 - 10/26/03 02:26 PM (14 years, 27 days ago)

It sounds like you'd like some sort of middle ground (I would, too).

What should the drug company have to do in addition to the boilerplate insert?

Right now there are supposed to be studies to demonstrate efficacy and safety. Unfortunately, it sounds like those studies don't have to be done by somebody independent from the drug company. History shows that we can't trust a company to do something properly when the results might go against that company's financials.


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