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eatyualive
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P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) 6
#20410651 - 08/12/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is part of my Easy Series

Brought to you by THE TRIBE
The goal is to have fully colonized jars ready for spawn in 7 days.
Easier to type P2G than Pf jar to Grain Transfer.
A key point to this method is that the pf mix is a bit drier than regular pf mix.
Recipe for 24 Pf jars: 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 5.5 cups water
one half cup less water is used compared to regular pf tek mix. This is intentionally done for liquid inoculations. The pf jars are stored as masters in the fridge for later use. The lower moisture content helps keep the pf cakes longer in the fridge. The idea is that when the colonized pf jar stores its a bit drier so you don't encounter moisture building up in the jar. the consistency of most of my cakes ends up crumbling into small particles that allow me to break up with a fork easily. This allows more inoculation points when forked into a grain jar.
regular 24 pf jar recipe 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 6 cups water
Here are some closeups of the drier mix. you will notice that the chunks are larger. this allows the pf jar to colonize much faster.
  
Illustration below using a shmuvbox for the clean work with APE. Spores are from 2009 sitting in a spore syringe in a fridge.
You can use a Shmuvbox a SAB/Glovebox or a flowhood to do your clean work.
Shmuvbox

SAB

Lets get to it, prep your clean work area and emplore clean principle. I will skip this part and just show the basics of this.
I only wipe my fork with rubbing alc. I loosen lids on all jars. I remove the pf cake lid and scrape off the verm into the bottom of my shmuvbox. I then keep the pf cake in the jar and scrape the pf cake into small pieces so that there are multiple inoculation points. You can do the entire cake, then open each lid real quick and dump the mycelia in. Or you can scrape enough for a few jars, open up the lid and dump. The key is to open the lid on your grain jars as quickly as possible and close them as quickly as you dump in the mycelia. I find it easier to do it jar by jar. If you keep your grain jar lids closed and only open them right before you dump in the mycelia you shouldn't have any problems. This is assuming your using and following clean/sterile technique.


This is what the mycelia should look like when you fork it using a smaller tipped fork. you want all the pieces small and tiny. You want many of them so there are many inoculation points.
Also a good POINTER is to use a fork with smaller size ends. this will allow you to break the pf cake up into small pieces. the more pieces the better. and also sometimes you can slip up and accidentally break the pf cake. this sometimes results in big chunks like one of the pics above. ideally you don't want this but sometimes you can't avoid it.

here are some better macros of the batch i did today. you can see what the texture and particle size of the scraped pf jar looks like.

GOOD EXAMPLE: THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD LOOK here are two different jars after a shake. notice how the mycelia is everywhere. this makes colonization very quick.
 
BAD EXAMPLE OF SCRAPE TECHNIQUE:this image below is not a great job. ideally you don't want big chunks like this because it will take longer to colonize. however, sometimes you are left at the end with the extra mycelia because you didn't quite evenly distribute all the mycelia into quart jars. so i end up dumping all the extra into the last jar. and sometimes your cake will break if you aren't careful or you use 2 year old pf cakes that are bone dry like i do.

I used Fooman's Grain Tek to prepare the grain in less than 2 hours. So I was already P2G'ing the pf jars into the quart jars before a 24 hour grain soak would be complete.
HERE IS A 6-7 DAY PICTORIAL OF 3 DIFFERENT CUBES USING THIS METHOD
THAI LIPA YAI Day 2-6:
     
R44
Day 2-6:
     
APE(Albino Penis Envy) and the spores are over 5 years old. All transfers done with the above method. (slower than most strains): If you use more pf jar mycelia per jar you can colonize the jars in as little as 3 days. But this works to get jars colonized from 5-7 days. you can do around 10-15 quart grain jars with one pf cake.
Day 2-6:
      
It looks like it will be under 7 days after inoculation for full colonization. This is extremely simple and easy. It works well and its quick if your using pf jars with anything from 9er tek clones, liquid cultures, liquid inoculants or even multispore.
Fivel's Results: 8 Days
   
Quote:
Fivel said: Final update #1
I spawned 2 tubs from those. I got 1 flush out of one of them and it triched out on me during second flush. I dug out the substrate and fruited it in another house to finish the flush and ended up with 5 1/2 oz dry the second tub I got 3 flushes out of and about 8 3/4 oz out of it. The first flush on that one was a few grams shy of 6 ounces  Here is the picture of the first flush before I cut anything and before it had a chance to fully mature 

I pulled a cake out the fridge and spawned P2G another 12 quarts 4 days ago. I'm shaking them today. I expect a 7 day colonization. 
you can see that most of the cube varieties have a similar growth speed. some are faster like thai lipa yai, some are slower like APE. Either way you can have jars colonized in 7 days or less.
After you have colonized your jars its time to spawn to bulk substrates.
You can also do a similar method if you want to make your jars colonize even faster in 3 DAYS!
3 Day Jar Colonization
Easy Bulk Subs 123
Grow Example
Quote:
eatyualive said: ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost there.
1 pf jar was p2ged to 10 quarts of wbs grain.
intending to take some clone material to keep this cube variety.

Quote:
eatyualive said: here is the year old pf jar p2g transfer. colonized after 9 days. a little slower than normal speeds but not too bad for a jar sitting in the fridge a whole year. ill grow out this spawn and update the thread when the grow is complete.

update.
this is R44 from a year old multispore pf jar. it was sitting in the fridge for over a year. p2ged into 10 quarts then spawned to bulk with a casing. it looks ropey. pinning very fast. going to attempt to take some clones of this one. tore through that casing layer in a day. extremely vigorous growth for being stored for so long. impressive genetics.

Edited by eatyualive (08/06/15 09:38 PM)
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Sockadin



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20410653 - 08/12/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edit: I stand corrected. When I first looked at this post there was not any pictures LOL.(or text) Nice Job eatyualive. It is always a pleasure watching you work.
Edited by Sockadin (08/13/14 04:44 AM)
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shaymisco
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20410687 - 08/12/14 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have a friend that does this, I think it is dumb and tried to argue but he still does. LC to PF without the dry verm layer (grain style lid) to grain. I do not recommend that though.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20410706 - 08/12/14 09:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:

i just posted pics. believe what you want to believe. ive done it literally thousands of times.
Edited by eatyualive (08/12/14 09:08 PM)
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wowimflabbergasted
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20411082 - 08/12/14 10:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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What's your contam rate with this?
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blindingleaf
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wow thats fast!! can u post a pic of ur jar at 8/7? ur inoculation was 8/6, and the pic u have of 8/8 is amazing!! i have never seen leap off like that. edit: also wondering, the pics u have of the BRF dropped in grain jar (inoculation) look really low on grains (2/3-3/4 full), but the next pic is a grain jar totally full? am i missing something? sorry if i am
Edited by blindingleaf (08/12/14 10:59 PM)
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Quexl


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blindingleaf]
#20411261 - 08/12/14 11:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very interesting tek I can see how the procedure avoids contamination that's typically associated with cakes by using one that hasn't been birthed yet, seems valid to me. Essentially it's just being used like G2G. Seems like it would be great for someone who's only done cakes before to start spawning grain to bulk.
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Sockadin



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Quexl]
#20411741 - 08/13/14 04:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree this is a great way for new growers to start to get into grain.
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eatyualive
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: wow thats fast!! can u post a pic of ur jar at 8/7? ur inoculation was 8/6, and the pic u have of 8/8 is amazing!! i have never seen leap off like that. edit: also wondering, the pics u have of the BRF dropped in grain jar (inoculation) look really low on grains (2/3-3/4 full), but the next pic is a grain jar totally full? am i missing something? sorry if i am
unfortunately i didn't look at the jars or take any pictures until 2 days after i P2G'ed them. the first few pictures are a really old post that i had taken the procedure on in 2003. so thats old, but i recently took pictures of the jars that grew using the same method. so that was probably a really old camera. your correct, i was running out of grain to fill a total of 10-15 quarts at the time so the one i happened to take pictures of was a little low. I generally fill them as high as you see in the pictures with the growth.
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: What's your contam rate with this?
not any higher than if I used agar with a flowhood. 97% plus. And its been years since I have had a contam in grain to grain transfers using this method.
Quote:
Quexl said: Very interesting tek I can see how the procedure avoids contamination that's typically associated with cakes by using one that hasn't been birthed yet, seems valid to me. Essentially it's just being used like G2G. Seems like it would be great for someone who's only done cakes before to start spawning grain to bulk.
yes exactly i use pf jars as my masters. ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week. everyone has a pf jar laying around. pf jars are simple enough and if you can fruit off a cake, you can make grain in 2 hours and then use a fork to P2G and have 10 quarts grain.
also remember that you could use that pf in 4 quart jars and have full colonization even faster. you can see how in day 2 the jar was almost fully colonized. that jar might have had more in it than what i distribute per jar. sometimes at the end of the pf jar i misjudged and i have quite a bit extra leftover, ill then dump the remaining pieces of the cake into that last jar. also a good POINTER is to use a fork with smaller size ends. this will allow you to break the pf cake up into small pieces. the more pieces the better. and also sometimes you can slip up and accidentally break the pf cake. this sometimes results in big chunks like one of the pics above. ideally you don't want this but sometimes you can avoid it.
so this method has over 10 years of my personal testing on it. and it works full proof. if you do have issues or contams its just a matter of improving your clean technique. a long time ago i had a little higher contam ratio but once i practiced a little more with my shmuvbox i have it down to a science now. all my movements are very fast and clean. you know from time to time you bump into things and screw things up its nature. no one is perfect or maybe ill take that back, stamets probably is. or folks that have a commercially available lab with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. it cost me under 100$ for supplies to get fruits. fair deal.
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 05:09 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20411812 - 08/13/14 05:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:

Edit: I stand corrected. When I first looked at this post there was not any pictures LOL.(or text) Nice Job eatyualive. It is always a pleasure watching you work.
no worries man i was in the middle of posting it haha. sometimes i save the post if its very long because ive lost many posts that i spent an hour on without saving.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414570 - 08/13/14 06:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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today, updated op.
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414641 - 08/13/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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mushpunx
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414728 - 08/13/14 07:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: mushpunx]
#20414786 - 08/13/14 07:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts. the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.
also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414805 - 08/13/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
mushpunx said: Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts. the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.
also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
Great info thanks
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414836 - 08/13/14 08:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have never got a grain jar to colonize as fast as yours do. I think my grains are a little on the dry side.
Nice work dude. It's good to see old farts, I mean long time TC's posting regularly like you do.
I've actually been going back and reading some old posts. I think a lot of good stuff may have been forgotten and/or brushed off.
Quote:
eatyualive said: also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
I've certainly wasted some time, material, and energy because life interrupted my cultivation at the wrong time.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20414853 - 08/13/14 08:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I have never got a grain jar to colonize as fast as yours do. I think my grains are a little on the dry side.
Nice work dude. It's good to see old farts, I mean long time TC's posting regularly like you do.
I've actually been going back and reading some old posts. I think a lot of good stuff may have been forgotten and/or brushed off.
Quote:
eatyualive said: also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
I've certainly wasted some time, material, and energy because life interrupted my cultivation at the wrong time.
have you tried fooman's grain tek? are you soaking your grain?
i just follow foos tek to the t and it works out really well. actually i didn't really measure out my grain perfectly. i just fill two bowls i have and i know by eye what fills my 10 quart jars to the top. i guess i could measure it out but i always forget to do that when im doing grain. you know some of its outdated, but you have to put it into perspective. at the time, everyone was against half the things i did. well, times change. hard works prevails. i just like simple hard work. so whatever i can do to minimize complicating things is the method i pick.
there might be 10 ways to skin a cat, but whatever skins that cat the fastest is usually the one i go with.
you would probably laugh but i used to soak my grain. thats so like 1980 isn't it? lmao
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:20 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20414902 - 08/13/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok so I been using Frank's WBS prep ever since I moved to bulk and it takes 24+ hours to get them into the PC. You really get your's into the PC from soak to PC in under an hour?! I maybe changing how I do things........

over course correct me if I'm wrong..
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414923 - 08/13/14 08:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said: Ok so I been using Frank's WBS prep ever since I moved to bulk and it takes 24+ hours to get them into the PC. You really get your's into the PC from soak to PC in under an hour?! I maybe changing how I do things........

over course correct me if I'm wrong..
2 hours.
basically it takes 30 minutes to soak in boiled water. you strain it out for 30 minutes. then you load and pc an hour. so it takes 2 hours and your jars are pced. you then allow it to cool and spawn after.
Fooman's Grain Tek
although i think foo just strains it out real quick, rinses it and then loads up the jars. so you can take out 30 minutes from that process. i do the 2 hour thing. and mostly becuase im way blazed when im letting the grain strain so sometimes i forget.
and its always good to allow the pressure to release from the pressure cooker and once the jars are cool enough to touch, give them a shake so that the moisture is distributed through the jars evenly.
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:37 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414948 - 08/13/14 08:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I read it and was blown away. I'm definitely going to try this. Grain prep for me takes up way too much time! Glad I found that. I usually remove my jars as soon as the PC is depressurized using an oven mit.. give it a quick shake and let them cool outside the PC. I know most people don't do that but do you see a major fault in doing it that way?
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mushpunx
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414965 - 08/13/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok I totally get it now. Its basically like adding a clean agar wedge to grains for a better shot at clean spawn Very cool
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414974 - 08/13/14 08:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said: Yeah I read it and was blown away. I'm definitely going to try this. Grain prep for me takes up way too much time! Glad I found that. I usually remove my jars as soon as the PC is depressurized using an oven mit.. give it a quick shake and let them cool outside the PC. I know most people don't do that but do you see a major fault in doing it that way?
nope. i do this if there is going to be a long time that the jars will sit prior to me g2g or P2ging the jars. sometimes if i let quart grain jars sit too long, the moisture builds up at the bottom of the jars and i get clumping. most of the time ill take them right out of the pressure cooker straight into the shmuvbox as soon as the pc is cool enough to do so. ill usually shake the jar when i take it out of the pc, loosen the lid and load my shmuvbox. and by that time ive already prepped all my clean area and master for transfer.
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:45 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414988 - 08/13/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do grains need to be @ room temp before noc'n up? Using any type of method?
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414996 - 08/13/14 08:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I soak my rye and WBS, but I don't simmer my WBS. WBS gets soaked, drained, and PC'c. Rye gets soaked boiled, drained/dried, PC'd.
I haven't really put Fooman's to the test, but my prelimenary experiments seem promising, at least with WBS. And your results leave little room for doubt.
I will also try your suggestion with soaking the rye a little longer for Fooman's. I'll just keep watching it to make sure the grains don't start to pop.
I'll be playing around with it this weekend some more. I'm waiting for other stuff anyway.
Being able to prep grains this way would be a Godsend for my schedule.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20415005 - 08/13/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I usually wait until the temperature is near incubation temps. which is room temps for me around 78 degrees. yes. others may do it differently. it depends on timing. if its very late at night and i just finished a batch of jars. ill wait till the morning and do the spawning. its usually cool by then. if i know that i have a day gap or so, i don't want the jars to sit in my pc that long in case the grain clumps up. ill wait until the pc is cool enough to touch with the hand, then shake the jars and store in a clean draft free area.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20415017 - 08/13/14 08:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I soak my rye and WBS, but I don't simmer my WBS. WBS gets soaked, drained, and PC'c. Rye gets soaked boiled, drained/dried, PC'd.
I haven't really put Fooman's to the test, but my prelimenary experiments seem promising, at least with WBS. And your results leave little room for doubt.
I will also try your suggestion with soaking the rye a little longer for Fooman's. I'll just keep watching it to make sure the grains don't start to pop.
I'll be playing around with it this weekend some more. I'm waiting for other stuff anyway.
Being able to prep grains this way would be a Godsend for my schedule.
foomans isn't a simmer tek. you bring the water to a rolling boil. then dump the grain in, take it off the heat, put a time on 30 mins. strain out, then load pc. its a hot water bath tek. as far as the rye grain i don't know if it will work. it may take some trial and error on that one. if i were you, id keep things going the way you normally do to keep things fully stocked and just do some small test runs on other stuff your willing to lose. if that makes sense. ive never tried that tek with rye grain and the grain is much thicker. there may be a limit to how long it can withstand the boiled water. i don't know until someone figures it out. wbs works perfectly though.
YEAH DON'T BE A SLAVE TO THE GRAIN
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:57 PM)
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Mush 4 Brains
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive] 1
#20415028 - 08/13/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I always used to do pf to grain for MS grows, it works great! I'm glad you posted this, I've seen so many say "Oh that won't work or its risky." Bullshit! I've done this throughout the years too many times to count. Often times I wouldn't even use a SAB for the transfers.
I'd use two spoons that were merely wiped down with some ISO. The first spoon would be used to scoop out the dry verm layer, after which it was set aside. The second spoon would be used for the actual transfer.
IME pf tek jars colonize from spores much quicker than grain, so that's one benefit of this tek. Anyone who doesn't believe that fact I encourage to take the pepsi challenge and get back to me. Noc up a pint grain jar and a pint brf jar.
My basic procedure for years would be to knock up 10 pf jars, pick out the fastest colonizer(s) and use it as a master to transfer to grain.
But since I don't have TC next to my name, my 8 years of experience and success isn't valid you see. Always some noob know it all, freshly registered with no real experience would tell me how it doesn't work or is extremely risky. My style of growing has always boiled down to practicality, if it works and works well why change?
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eatyualive
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here are some better macros of the batch i did today. you can see what the texture and particle size of the scraped pf jar looks like.

here are two different jars after a shake.notice how the mycelia is everywhere. this makes colonization very quick.

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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20432211 - 08/17/14 11:00 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here is a day 1 picture of the mycelia from the post above. ill update the original post. this can help you see the growth for the first day. this is 3 different jars for an example.
Edited by eatyualive (08/17/14 11:00 AM)
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pawnzy
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20432430 - 08/17/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
mushpunx said: Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts. the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.
also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
Time is expensive, you have some great ideas here . Respect for sharing
Edit: just saw your post with the growth after a day of myc. P2g looks so much diff than G2g or A2g :P guess its the vermiculite
Edited by pawnzy (08/17/14 12:07 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: pawnzy]
#20432488 - 08/17/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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the particles are smaller. yes all the glitter looking speckles are verm. that will disappear after a day.
Edited by eatyualive (08/17/14 12:44 PM)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20432818 - 08/17/14 01:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you for documenting this. I have said in the past that this could be done, but requires skill. Do you think this takes a lot of experience and practice? Would you consider it "noob friendly"?
Personally, I would only recommend P2G if using a lid with a filtered GE hole instead of the dry vermiculite barrier. But, you are a skilled cultivator and if anyone can do it, it would be you.
Are you going to continue to post results all the way to harvest?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20432862 - 08/17/14 01:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow! I thought this was with modified proper lids.
One thing that came to mind, are you doing all this in a schmuvbox? I thought they operated on the principles of a FH and that you shouldn't open contamed plates etc in front of the air flow?
Am I missing something vital?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: spacechildo]
#20438310 - 08/18/14 04:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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day 2 burma

updated op.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20438323 - 08/18/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Thank you for documenting this. I have said in the past that this could be done, but requires skill. Do you think this takes a lot of experience and practice? Would you consider it "noob friendly"?
Personally, I would only recommend P2G if using a lid with a filtered GE hole instead of the dry vermiculite barrier. But, you are a skilled cultivator and if anyone can do it, it would be you.
Are you going to continue to post results all the way to harvest?
agar work is harder than this. this is simple. thats the point. the dry vermiculite barrier is irrelevant. if you have a colonized pf cake then you can use this method. it makes no difference what lid your using. This is more "noob friendly" than agar work.
if time permits yes. if life gets in the way i may miss some things but ill try to keep it up to date so you can see a day by day. its the only way to show this works. and i have no issues doing that. in fact, its fun showing the day by day its just time consuming with life and all.
Quote:
spacechildo said: Wow! I thought this was with modified proper lids.
One thing that came to mind, are you doing all this in a schmuvbox? I thought they operated on the principles of a FH and that you shouldn't open contamed plates etc in front of the air flow?
Am I missing something vital? 
to be honest i keep hearing all this discussion about lids with ports ect. if you have a colonized cake, then this method is where you begin. plain and simple. the lids don't matter.
im not opening a contaminated jar into my shmuvbox. im opening a fully colonized uncontaminated pf jar in the shmuv. if the jar is questionable i just chunk it out. i've everything for the last 11 years in a shmuvbox since 2003.
I did one round of jars recently in a glove box in the last 11 years so i wouldn't stir the contam i had into the air. i tried to salvage some partially contaminated jars to grain.
other than that, i do prints, clones, g2g, p2g, agar, multispore syringes in a shmuvbox. i have a glovebox or SAB or whatever you want to call it, i just prefere the shmuv. it has more room to work in and freedom of movement.
what your missing is that this is even easier than you think it is. naysayers don't try it. that is it. its easy to make excuses not to try things. when reality is, it works just fine. also, i don't soak my grain for 24 hours. i do a 2 hour grain prep and i can spawn the jars once they cool. so while most people are waiting 12 to 24 hours to soak their grain. ive already pressure cooked, spawned and have 3 batches of jars incubating. and then ill be blazing a big fat spliff when everyone else is waiting to begin pressure cooking. or i might eat some leg steak wit my teef
Edited by eatyualive (08/18/14 05:24 PM)
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TheRandomDude420
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20438374 - 08/18/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Be franklin did not invent electricity. He simply harnessed it's power to have complete and utter control of the entire universe while riding a electric unicorn across the galaxies, shooting bolt of lightning like Zeus himself. Now that's the story your teacher doesn't want you to know....
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Mush 4 Brains
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20438528 - 08/18/14 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar work is harder than this. this is simple. thats the point. the dry vermiculite barrier is irrelevant. if you have a colonized pf cake then you can use this method. it makes no difference what lid your using. This is more "noob friendly" than agar work.
It's the perfect next step for a beginner. I remember one particular thread doc t criticizes me for suggesting it. It's certainly nothing new, and I can name a few other posters here who have been doing P2G for years as well.
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Pastywhyte
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Excuse me if I'm missing something painfully obvious but, I think SBJ and space were thinking the same thing I am. If you do this with verm barrier and pf style lids is there not a chance that contams trapped in the dry verm layer could end up in the mix? They would not be a concern if fruiting or spawning but to inoculate grain spawn is a different beast.
I know a lot of the old School think us noobs are too paranoid about contams and that things like open air LC inoculations are an acceptable and measured risk or taking prints on the counter and making syringes with them is fine but, IME if I get even a little careless with my sterile tek or try to cut a corner it always seems to bite me in the ass. Hence why I would be hesitant to try something like this and even more reluctant to recommend it. Thoughts?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20438670 - 08/18/14 06:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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exactly.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20438683 - 08/18/14 06:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't say for sure why it works, though I know it does work. If I had to take an educated guess, I'd attribute my personal success to a few different ideas/procedures. (I'd be very interested on what eatyu has to say on this as well.)
1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier... Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g. I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?
2) I think over all there is a certain level of sterility that'll work, you have a bit of leeway sometimes. Having a young vigorous culture goes a long way as well. Think about people who use pins from their MS grows to knock up LC or grain by simply dropping the pin in. There's plenty of evidence here that THAT works. The pin growing in a tub isnt in 100% sterile conditions, it's getting ambient air flow from a clean however not sterile grow room.
3) I like to use a lot of spawn for transfers which I believe helps too.
4) My grow room is relatively small and cleaned very frequently.
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Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier... Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g. I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?
The reason I would think it would be difficult is because of the contam barrier. The cake may be 100% colonized, but the dry verm layer may still have contaminants on it.
It just seems difficult to remove the contam barrier without getting some in the cake. This is fine for fruiting the cake or spawning, but I would be too paranoid about introducing a cake with contams to a sterile grain jar.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying it can't be done, but, it just seems like it would take some skill. There is always the possibility that I'm missing something.
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eatyualive
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Excuse me if I'm missing something painfully obvious but, I think SBJ and space were thinking the same thing I am. If you do this with verm barrier and pf style lids is there not a chance that contams trapped in the dry verm layer could end up in the mix? They would not be a concern if fruiting or spawning but to inoculate grain spawn is a different beast.
I know a lot of the old School think us noobs are too paranoid about contams and that things like open air LC inoculations are an acceptable and measured risk or taking prints on the counter and making syringes with them is fine but, IME if I get even a little careless with my sterile tek or try to cut a corner it always seems to bite me in the ass. Hence why I would be hesitant to try something like this and even more reluctant to recommend it. Thoughts?
if you want to get technical there is always a chance. and there is always a chance anything can contam. even with a flowhood. thats like saying you want to quit cultivation because you have contamination when that is part of the hobby. hell, a very long time ago i had like 10 batches in a row contaminate of grain jars due to some crappy ass grain. it took me a few 20lb bags of grain to figure it out. but i still kept at it. ive also tossed 30 sterilite tubs to contams when i was doing mass bulk using straw in the past. did that deter me? hell no. did i want that to happen again? hell no, but did i say im never doing straw again? hell no.
its a chance im willing to take. the contams are very minimal using this method. you can always try it out on the small scale and when you get your technique down a little better, move on to more jars. what i do is keep a huge stock of regular material brewing. and then i keep about 20% for experiments. always have backup so that in case contams do happen, you have another route to take. right now ive got about 40 jars all done using this method incubating now. if you never experiment you never learn. if you think im being sloppy with my clean work. im not im very anally clean and quick with my clean work. but, i just don't operate on the norms is all. most of methods i use i developed out of experiments with other methods. i just kinda merge them all together to make things easier for myself and spreading the knowledge.
i have not had one contam using a shmuvbox with this method since i fired the pressure cooker back up the last couple years. ive done 4 batches of jars recently with no contams. a few months ago i did 40 ape jars with no issues. soon, i will continue to post every single batch i do in order to show everyone that this works. im not hiding anything that you don't see. im posting it every single time i look at it with no gaps. additionally, ive done this method with clone material that i have stored in the fridge for over 5 years. ive even used pf jars that are 1 year old to do this method with success. when my pf jars colonize, i put them directly in my fridge with the foil lid over the holes. when its time to p2g, i pull out a pf jar from the fridge and do the above method. i don't have any issues with contams anymore than a normal cultivator. id say in all of my years i actually get less contams using this method than other methods. its no better or worse, its just easy.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:
agar work is harder than this. this is simple. thats the point. the dry vermiculite barrier is irrelevant. if you have a colonized pf cake then you can use this method. it makes no difference what lid your using. This is more "noob friendly" than agar work.
It's the perfect next step for a beginner. I remember one particular thread doc t criticizes me for suggesting it. It's certainly nothing new, and I can name a few other posters here who have been doing P2G for years as well.
your right this isn't new, i just posted it because i didn't really see any good illustrations using it. hell its my preferred method now. i try to simplify everything. if it works and its easier with the same success, ill take the quicker route. im reading all this stuff and there are so many extra steps added. ill just skip all those extra steps and get the same results. if people want to try it and it makes it easier for them, thats awesome im glad i can help. if they don't want to try it, and want to keep debating things instead of trying things, it makes no difference to me. ill just keep on trucking either way. because i got plenty of shroom meat to eat.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20438817 - 08/18/14 06:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier... Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g. I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?
The reason I would think it would be difficult is because of the contam barrier. The cake may be 100% colonized, but the dry verm layer may still have contaminants on it.
It just seems difficult to remove the contam barrier without getting some in the cake. This is fine for fruiting the cake or spawning, but I would be too paranoid about introducing a cake with contams to a sterile grain jar.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying it can't be done, but, it just seems like it would take some skill. There is always the possibility that I'm missing something.
there is always some degree of skill required for everything. i mean how many times did you have to try agar before you got it right?
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Pastywhyte
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Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier... Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g. I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?
Because the dry verm layer has contams in it. Even if you dump it out, then scrape the rest off, you could potentially be digging in contams inadvertently which will then make it into your grain jar. Fruiting and bulk spawning is not a sterile process and does not need to be. Spawn making does.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 2) I think over all there is a certain level of sterility that'll work, you have a bit of leeway sometimes. Having a young vigorous culture goes a long way as well. Think about people who use pins from their MS grows to knock up LC or grain by simply dropping the pin in. There's plenty of evidence here that THAT works.
There is even more that it is a potential vector. My first LC that I tried with spores contamed horribly. My success rate with agar wedges to LC is much better.
As for pins to LC, I get contams from pins to agar. My response to people that claim otherwise is that they are either very lucky, or just lying. Even if they are not, its not a practice I would even consider for a second. Making an agar plate is no harder than making an LC. I have a fridge full of cultures that I will most likely never even use. Clean agar wedges are something that are too easy to have on hand.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 3) I like to use a lot of spawn for transfers which I believe helps too.
Not if its contamed If I made LC like you I would be growing contams at a fantastic rate 
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: 4) My grow room is relatively small and cleaned very frequently.
Inconsequential.
I'm not trying to be a dick, and I don't want to jack what is a good thread, I am just trying to understand what I am missing.
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eatyualive
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Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: I can't say for sure why it works, though I know it does work. If I had to take an educated guess, I'd attribute my personal success to a few different ideas/procedures. (I'd be very interested on what eatyu has to say on this as well.)
1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier... Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g. I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?
2) I think over all there is a certain level of sterility that'll work, you have a bit of leeway sometimes. Having a young vigorous culture goes a long way as well. Think about people who use pins from their MS grows to knock up LC or grain by simply dropping the pin in. There's plenty of evidence here that THAT works. The pin growing in a tub isnt in 100% sterile conditions, it's getting ambient air flow from a clean however not sterile grow room.
3) I like to use a lot of spawn for transfers which I believe helps too.
4) My grow room is relatively small and cleaned very frequently.
im only using 2 injection holes in my poly lids for pf jars. but it doesn't matter if its 2 or 4. i just move my needle to the edge and do two injections per hole so i have a 4 point injection on the pf jars.
here is the thing, if you colonize something very fast with clean mycelia, you minimize room for contamation.
its the same principle as using grain spawn to transfer g2g. only your using a pf jar. plain and simple.
also i agree with a new healthy culture. but at the same time, ive had great success using a 7 year old clone with the same method. and also a pf jar stored for a year in the fridge. so, it can be done. also here is the 7 yr old clone. its getting very weak but hell its 7 years old. i ran this clone for 7 years using p2g and shmuvbox. i had no issues doing this the entire time, even with weak, old material. yeah its not the best results but it still fruited two flushes and had decent yield. i was getting 4z dry per first flush and close to that 2nd flush with a dunk. not the usual but decent for 7 years old.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19988833
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Pastywhyte
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20438928 - 08/18/14 06:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: there is always some degree of skill required for everything. i mean how many times did you have to try agar before you got it right?
Here was my first crack at agar, a clone from one of my first (only did 12) pf cakes, did not isolate, just transferred once. Was stupid easy to do the agar, I had more trouble with when to fruit the damn tray Agar was so easy that I used my first syringe on cakes and screwed up the FC, wrong size jars for most of em, etc. Saved the last drop for a plate, which kept me going for a long time. For me agar was easier than pf tek 

Quote:
ive also tossed 30 sterilite tubs to contams when i was doing mass bulk using straw in the past. did that deter me? hell no. did i want that to happen again? hell no, but did i say im never doing straw again? hell no.
I applaud this. The vectors can be complex and might be hard to tack down. At aloha they consider a poor culture to be a contam vector. Not giving up is one of the hardest parts of the hobby, and pinning down something like bad grain has got to be tough. Would drive me nuts for sure.
Quote:
here is the thing, if you colonize something very fast with clean mycelia, you minimize room for contamation.
I do agree with this. Lately I have been using larger wedges and more LC to get er done quicker.
I guess if people are intimidated by agar and stuff then things like this are an alternative. I do like the idea of new inoculates, especially for other species and free thinking is good. But I like to really hedge my bets and while I won't be deterred by failure, I want it to be as minimal as I can realistically make it.
Edited by Pastywhyte (08/18/14 07:02 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20438988 - 08/18/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
eatyualive said: there is always some degree of skill required for everything. i mean how many times did you have to try agar before you got it right?
Here was my first crack at agar, a clone from one of my first (only did 12) pf cakes, did not isolate, just transferred once. Was stupid easy to do the agar, I had more trouble with when to fruit the damn tray Agar was so easy that I used my first syringe on cakes and screwed up the FC, wrong size jars for most of em, etc. Saved the last drop for a plate, which kept me going for a long time. For me agar was easier than pf tek 

Quote:
its a chance im willing to take. the contams are very minimal using this method. you can always try it out on the small scale and when you get your technique down a little better, move on to more jars. what i do is keep a huge stock of regular material brewing. and then i keep about 20% for experiments. always have backup so that in case contams do happen, you have another route to take.
I applaud this. The vectors can be complex and might be hard to tack down. At aloha they consider a poor culture to be a contam vector. Not giving up is one of the hardest parts of the hobby, and pinning down something like bad grain has got to be tough. Would drive me nuts for sure.
Quote:
here is the thing, if you colonize something very fast with clean mycelia, you minimize room for contamation.
I do agree with this. Lately I have been using larger wedges and more LC to get er done quicker.
I guess if people are intimidated by agar and stuff then things like this are an alternative. I do like the idea of new inoculates, especially for other species and free thinking is good. But I like to really hedge my bets and while I won't be deterred by failure, I want it to be as minimal as I can realistically make it.
see agar to me was much harder to grasp but this was when i had no tools, no write ups , no supply stores, just a book lol. its much easier when theres a quick and easy pictorial with a recipe. yeah its crazy that agar is easier than pf tek for you. thats a good thing lol.
yeah it is just another way of doing it. not better not worse. just another way.
i find it easier than having to cook a crazy amount of tools all the time to prep agar work. cook the agar, pour the plates, cut the wedge. then cut the wedge again and transfer into jars.
i can wipe a fork with rubbing alc and scarpe it into some quart jars. its less pressure cooking for me, and less prep time in the end. im doing less work.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20439038 - 08/18/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Funny enough I love agar, its my favorite part of the hobby. I don't PC tools tho, just a blowtorch and a SAB. I also do a lot of no pour, I usually just do pour agar when I am making tetra agar to keep the bacteria on wild prints and clones down. Otherwise I have about 100 no pour pp5's 
Anyway you guys did have far greater obstacles than people realize. Didn't even have UTFSE 
Edited by Pastywhyte (08/18/14 07:25 PM)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20439078 - 08/18/14 07:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: im only using 2 injection holes in my poly lids for pf jars. but it doesn't matter if its 2 or 4.
This may be the part I was missing. I didn't think you were using a filtered lid, but you are using a filtered lid. In my opinion, this greatly reduces the risk of contamination. Or, am I still missing something?
I also found agar to be way easy. I wished I had started with it from day one.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20439185 - 08/18/14 07:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
Quote:
eatyualive said: im only using 2 injection holes in my poly lids for pf jars. but it doesn't matter if its 2 or 4.
This may be the part I was missing. I didn't think you were using a filtered lid, but you are using a filtered lid. In my opinion, this greatly reduces the risk of contamination. Or, am I still missing something?
I also found agar to be way easy. I wished I had started with it from day one.
no there is no filter on the lid. i have plastic small mouth 1/2 pint lids with two 1/4" holes drilled in them. see picture.

the pf substrate is in the jar, there is a half inch verm barrier, then this lid, then a piece of foil over it. this is why i don't take my foil off the jars. i get moisture loss. i actually had a few jars stall out that i had removed the foil from on the last batch of test runs i was doing.
these are the 4 lids i use. the two you see with 2 holes only are the pf jar lids i use. the other two have whatman ports and self healing injection ports. the large wide mouth are used for quart jar lids or multispore syringe batches. i also use it for liquid cloning.
Edited by eatyualive (08/18/14 07:32 PM)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20439216 - 08/18/14 07:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gotcha. when you said poly lid, I thought you meant poly GE filters in the lids. But, you meant exactly what you said, poly lids.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20439351 - 08/18/14 07:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Because the dry verm layer has contams in it. Even if you dump it out, then scrape the rest off, you could potentially be digging in contams inadvertently which will then make it into your grain jar. Fruiting and bulk spawning is not a sterile process and does not need to be. Spawn making does.
Yeah but what I'm saying is that if these contams on the verm barrier were such a big deal, why wouldn't they contaminate the pf jar long before it was fully colonized? And of course fruiting and spawning gives you way more leeway regarding sterility but that's not what I was mentioning.
Quote:
As for pins to LC, I get contams from pins to agar. My response to people that claim otherwise is that they are either very lucky, or just lying. Even if they are not, its not a practice I would even consider for a second. Making an agar plate is no harder than making an LC. I have a fridge full of cultures that I will most likely never even use. Clean agar wedges are something that are too easy to have on hand.
I agree 100% and I don't make LCs or noc up grain using pins. I too use agar for that. In fact I don't even make LCs or even GLCs at all anymore. I've seen it work first hand though (met another grower who had a healthy, fully colonized grain jar that he noced up with a pin) I've read of success in the forums here too.
And regarding the clean grow room, that's always consequential in precipitating successful grows. I believe it's why I'm able to do open air transfers (excluding agar work of course, which I would at least want a SAB)
I understand your and Spit's skepticism. Don't know what else to say other than it works for me and apparently others. Stamets himself said in The Mushroom Cultivator that (and I'm paraphrasing here) that some growers may have no problems with contams using simple/basic precautions while others will have to go to great lengths to ward off contamination.
That was probably the second fundamental rule of mycology I learned shortly after joining the forums 1)Mycology requires patience AND 2) What works for one, may not necessarily work for all.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20439390 - 08/18/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
Quote:
eatyualive said: im only using 2 injection holes in my poly lids for pf jars. but it doesn't matter if its 2 or 4.
This may be the part I was missing. I didn't think you were using a filtered lid, but you are using a filtered lid. In my opinion, this greatly reduces the risk of contamination. Or, am I still missing something?
I also found agar to be way easy. I wished I had started with it from day one.
no there is no filter on the lid. i have plastic small mouth 1/2 pint lids with two 1/4" holes drilled in them. see picture.

the pf substrate is in the jar, there is a half inch verm barrier, then this lid, then a piece of foil over it. this is why i don't take my foil off the jars. i get moisture loss. i actually had a few jars stall out that i had removed the foil from on the last batch of test runs i was doing.
these are the 4 lids i use. the two you see with 2 holes only are the pf jar lids i use. the other two have whatman ports and self healing injection ports. the large wide mouth are used for quart jar lids or multispore syringe batches. i also use it for liquid cloning.

Nice, those look pretty well protected compared to your average pf tek lids.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Funny enough I love agar, its my favorite part of the hobby. I don't PC tools tho, just a blowtorch and a SAB. I also do a lot of no pour, I usually just do pour agar when I am making tetra agar to keep the bacteria on wild prints and clones down. Otherwise I have about 100 no pour pp5's 
Anyway you guys did have far greater obstacles than people realize. Didn't even have UTFSE 

Same here, I like no pour much better.
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Quote:
1)Mycology requires patience AND 2) What works for one, may not necessarily work for all.
QFT
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blindingleaf]
#20440244 - 08/18/14 10:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I love reading all the debating. My thinking is like Pasty's but if Eatu is having such great success (insane 0-100% colonization speed) I may just have to 'noc up some pf jars again. It's gonna be way down the road because my life is in big transition right now. Can't wait to show you what I'm working on guys so you can follow along and give me some suggestions.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20444668 - 08/19/14 07:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so here is day 3 with the burma p2g.
i just shook it after the picture.
 
and something to mention. sometimes the pf jars have more moisture in them. this may make breaking the mycelia into smaller particles more difficult. a semi dry pf jar is perfect for this because any excess moisture in the grain jars gets soaked up right away with the addition of the dryer mycelia. these jars were dryer than the ape jars. the ape jars were more difficult to break up with a fork.
Edited by eatyualive (08/19/14 08:22 PM)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20444794 - 08/19/14 08:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20447084 - 08/20/14 07:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whats that orange thing in first pic? piece of corn?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: pawnzy]
#20449804 - 08/20/14 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so here is day 4 after a shake. things are going well. right in line with the previous jar run.
Day 4 Burma:

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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20449890 - 08/20/14 06:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so i have some cakes (with sfd'd lids) and one is fully colonised and a couple days into consolidation. i have a few right behind it just about colonised. Can i use the cake without consolidation? Do you think a fork could be wrapped in foil and pc'd without needing alcohol wipe? wiping with alcohol scares me as this leads to failure with a syringe.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20449954 - 08/20/14 07:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week.
wait... What? Let me get this straight. You put a mushroom in the blender with water and suck it into a syringe, and then inoculate a PF Jar with the entire syringe? I would think that would be loaded with contaminants. But why not skip a step and just use it to inoculate the grain jar?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpinScratch]
#20450034 - 08/20/14 07:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpinScratch said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week.
wait... What? Let me get this straight. You put a mushroom in the blender with water and suck it into a syringe, and then inoculate a PF Jar with the entire syringe? I would think that would be loaded with contaminants. But why not skip a step and just use it to inoculate the grain jar?
no, i cut inner stem tissue from inside the stem, place it in the blender assembly then blend it. i then suck it up into a syringe and inject it into pf jars. it is done in a in a clean environment and all tools are sterilized before work is done. i use two separate knives one to cut the outside of the stem open, then the next to cut the tissue from the inside. a bernzomatic torch is used to sterilize all utensils. its the same thing if you cut a piece of stem tissue and place it on an agar plate. the only difference is that im placing it in sterile water, blending it up and then sucking it into a sterile syringe for liquid inoculation.
its called 9er tek. its one of the oldest and easiest liquid cloning techniques out there.
i only use the cloning part. it works so easily and the speed kills agar.
Edited by eatyualive (08/20/14 07:24 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20450589 - 08/20/14 08:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
SpinScratch said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week.
wait... What? Let me get this straight. You put a mushroom in the blender with water and suck it into a syringe, and then inoculate a PF Jar with the entire syringe? I would think that would be loaded with contaminants. But why not skip a step and just use it to inoculate the grain jar?
no, i cut inner stem tissue from inside the stem, place it in the blender assembly then blend it. i then suck it up into a syringe and inject it into pf jars. it is done in a in a clean environment and all tools are sterilized before work is done. i use two separate knives one to cut the outside of the stem open, then the next to cut the tissue from the inside. a bernzomatic torch is used to sterilize all utensils. its the same thing if you cut a piece of stem tissue and place it on an agar plate. the only difference is that im placing it in sterile water, blending it up and then sucking it into a sterile syringe for liquid inoculation.
its called 9er tek. its one of the oldest and easiest liquid cloning techniques out there.
i only use the cloning part. it works so easily and the speed kills agar.
Just a suggestion but you would only need to use one scalpel if you use your fingers to tear the stem apart to get at the tissue. Also if you cut the stem you maybe forcing contams into the mushroom stem.
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20450848 - 08/20/14 09:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: so i have some cakes (with sfd'd lids) and one is fully colonised and a couple days into consolidation. i have a few right behind it just about colonised. Can i use the cake without consolidation? Do you think a fork could be wrapped in foil and pc'd without needing alcohol wipe? wiping with alcohol scares me as this leads to failure with a syringe.
sooo.... ? sorry to be impatient but i'd like to do this asap
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20451059 - 08/20/14 09:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said:
Quote:
tombosley8 said: so i have some cakes (with sfd'd lids) and one is fully colonised and a couple days into consolidation. i have a few right behind it just about colonised. Can i use the cake without consolidation? Do you think a fork could be wrapped in foil and pc'd without needing alcohol wipe? wiping with alcohol scares me as this leads to failure with a syringe.
sooo.... ? sorry to be impatient but i'd like to do this asap
ive used the method a thousand times above with no issues. try it. you can pc a fork it won't hurt. but isn't necessary. you need to be as sterile as possible with a spore syringe. with pg2 its healthy mycelia. it grows fast. if you colonize fast, you reduce the room for contams. ill keep osting hundreds of examples of this working perfectly if your in denial.
Edited by eatyualive (08/20/14 09:40 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20451095 - 08/20/14 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
SpinScratch said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week.
wait... What? Let me get this straight. You put a mushroom in the blender with water and suck it into a syringe, and then inoculate a PF Jar with the entire syringe? I would think that would be loaded with contaminants. But why not skip a step and just use it to inoculate the grain jar?
no, i cut inner stem tissue from inside the stem, place it in the blender assembly then blend it. i then suck it up into a syringe and inject it into pf jars. it is done in a in a clean environment and all tools are sterilized before work is done. i use two separate knives one to cut the outside of the stem open, then the next to cut the tissue from the inside. a bernzomatic torch is used to sterilize all utensils. its the same thing if you cut a piece of stem tissue and place it on an agar plate. the only difference is that im placing it in sterile water, blending it up and then sucking it into a sterile syringe for liquid inoculation.
its called 9er tek. its one of the oldest and easiest liquid cloning techniques out there.
i only use the cloning part. it works so easily and the speed kills agar.
Just a suggestion but you would only need to use one scalpel if you use your fingers to tear the stem apart to get at the tissue. Also if you cut the stem you maybe forcing contams into the mushroom stem.
one is for the outer cut, one for inner. this isn't necessary i just do it this way. i have two its easy to pc them. i want no down time from the time i cut the stem tissue to placing it into the jar for blending. and i don't waste any time on the cut flame sterilizing anything. as soon as the stem is openeed, i cut very fast and drop the slice into the jar. next time i do it ill try and take pictures during the process. its very difficult without help to illustrate this live. ill try.
Edited by eatyualive (08/20/14 09:44 PM)
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20451551 - 08/20/14 11:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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do you recommend this over the liquid cake inoculation (slurry tek)? seems like the slurry tek would be better/easier? I have to or am choosing to do this over the slurry tek because i don't want to cut the cake in half even in front of my hood as i think i may contaminate it. but what you said about speed of colonization makes me think that maybe with my lack of confidence and possibly slight erorr i may still be ok? i ended pcing the fork because i'm so over the top with my sterile procedure but that's the only way i've been able to succeed. Didn't read your post until after. I believe you and i think i'm going to try them both out just wondering which you think i should try first? i have a few days until the other cakes are colonized so i have one cake to work with for now. i have tap water for LI or maybe the slurry tek cooling in the pc now.
Edited by tombosley8 (08/20/14 11:40 PM)
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20454523 - 08/21/14 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so i ended up doing both and should be posting my results soon and continuing when the cakes are all done. Thanks again for such a well written and highly productive method. but one more thing, the inside of the cake appeared uncolonised when i scraped it up with the fork. Is this normal or was the cake not actually colonized, or maybe i should have waited for consolidation?
Edited by tombosley8 (08/21/14 03:55 PM)
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wowimflabbergasted
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20454608 - 08/21/14 03:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: maybe i should have waited for consolidation?
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tombosley8
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well fuk i asked before and it seemed that he wouldve answered that if it was that important. Was that really a waste of a good cake and all that grain?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20454649 - 08/21/14 04:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't read all the posts, so I apologize if I missed something.
Consolidation of cakes is for when you intend to fruit them as cakes.
Don't consolidate if you plan P2G or spawn to bulk.
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wowimflabbergasted
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20454655 - 08/21/14 04:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I didn't read all the posts, so I apologize if I missed something.
Consolidation of cakes is for when you intend to fruit them as cakes.
Don't consolidate if you plan P2G or spawn to bulk.
Ok I stand corrected. What's the reasoning behind this?
Edited by wowimflabbergasted (08/21/14 04:32 PM)
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tombosley8
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yaaaaayyyyyyy
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20455206 - 08/21/14 06:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I didn't read all the posts, so I apologize if I missed something.
Consolidation of cakes is for when you intend to fruit them as cakes.
Don't consolidate if you plan P2G or spawn to bulk.
Yes this is exactly correct. This is purely for using them to transfer from pf jar to grain. i don't leave them in the fridge intending to fruit directly off the cake. although i usually wait 3 days after full colonization and either p2g them or place them in the fridge. there have been several times that i have forgotten about the jars for a week and then stuck them in the fridge.
Edited by eatyualive (08/21/14 08:32 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20455218 - 08/21/14 06:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: do you recommend this over the liquid cake inoculation (slurry tek)? seems like the slurry tek would be better/easier? I have to or am choosing to do this over the slurry tek because i don't want to cut the cake in half even in front of my hood as i think i may contaminate it. but what you said about speed of colonization makes me think that maybe with my lack of confidence and possibly slight erorr i may still be ok? i ended pcing the fork because i'm so over the top with my sterile procedure but that's the only way i've been able to succeed. Didn't read your post until after. I believe you and i think i'm going to try them both out just wondering which you think i should try first? i have a few days until the other cakes are colonized so i have one cake to work with for now. i have tap water for LI or maybe the slurry tek cooling in the pc now.
the slurry inoculation is really good if you need a giant amount of spawn like 100 jars using one pf cake. i don't even own that many jars. so to me, i feel that it would be wasting half of the cake if i only used it to do 10 quart jars. id rather use all the mycelia with a fork into 10 quarts. also the slurry is good if you need a ton of spawn and you have very little to work with.
also, this takes some practice. it did work for me the first few times i tried it. i tried it several times before perfecting it and i have alot of experience. so, be patient. pressure cooking the fork is great and the more anal you are about the clean procedure the better. you can never be too anal about clean work.
Edited by eatyualive (08/21/14 06:16 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20455223 - 08/21/14 06:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: so i ended up doing both and should be posting my results soon and continuing when the cakes are all done. Thanks again for such a well written and highly productive method. but one more thing, the inside of the cake appeared uncolonised when i scraped it up with the fork. Is this normal or was the cake not actually colonized, or maybe i should have waited for consolidation?
great id love to see the results. ive seen it on spawn bags/quarts/ popcorn grain jars and all types of different grains with success. but you have to remember, you only need a tiny little bit per jar. you don't want to over pour. its almost like one slimy drop or two slimy drops of slurry.
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20456058 - 08/21/14 08:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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o ok i thought it was more like a lc where around 2 ccs would be good. I sucked some up into some syringes and have them in the fridge until i have grain ready in a couple days so i'll do just a couple drops per and i'll hopefully have another cake ready to try it on again. I think i mixed the cake with too much water (I used a qt half full)and only used half the cake.... This time i'll probably use the whole cake or just a pint jar... thanks for all your help again i can't wait to perfect this as well.
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/21/14 08:28 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20456106 - 08/21/14 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: o ok i thought it was more like a lc where around 2 ccs would be good. I sucked some up into some syringes and have them in the fridge until i have grain ready in a couple days so i'll do just a couple drops per and i'll hopefully have another cake ready to try it on again. I think i mixed the cake with too much water (I used a qt half full)and only used half the cake.... This time i'll probably use the whole cake or just a pint jar... thanks for all your help again i can't wait to perfect this as well.
i hope this works. although im not sure that it will. i generally wait till the grain is ready before i blend up the cake. then blend it up and pour it into the grain after i just blended it up. id say your adding some room for issues by having it sit in a syringe. Read through the entire Tv Casualty's Slurry in a Hurry Tek.
I hope you have luck. the 2cc's may work. its not an exact science unless you make the lids like TV did. He has a nozzle attachment to the top of his lid. I was lazy and just poured it from the blender jar right into quart jars. His method is probably cleaner or more measured. But its always best to prep everything before doing this and then pour or inject the jars immediately with a slurry. If it does work, then you may have figured something new out. I store the colonized pf jars in the fridge. when i have my grain prepped and setup all my clean area and tools, ill then take out the pf jar from the fridge. then blend up and pour into the already prepped jars. i hope what im saying isn't confusing you. if it is please feel free to keep asking questions ill try and help any way i can.
Edited by eatyualive (08/21/14 08:44 PM)
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20456231 - 08/21/14 08:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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no completely straight forward and with that advice i will probably not use the syringes afterall. It's worth the better chance of success to wait til i have another cake colonized. we'll probably have to wait til then for me to show results as i'm not so confident with the first attempt and may dump most of them but that's the best way to learn sometimes.... failure.... also i forgot to add that my cake was a bit mushy when trying to break it up so i was left with some large chunks. Should i adjust my cake recipe to a bit dryer? Maybe i'll see some success from the pf 2 g jars. I only ended up getting some into 4 jars from half a cake because of the clumped cake issue but i think that's about what i wanted right?
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/21/14 09:04 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20457847 - 08/22/14 05:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: no completely straight forward and with that advice i will probably not use the syringes afterall. It's worth the better chance of success to wait til i have another cake colonized. we'll probably have to wait til then for me to show results as i'm not so confident with the first attempt and may dump most of them but that's the best way to learn sometimes.... failure.... also i forgot to add that my cake was a bit mushy when trying to break it up so i was left with some large chunks. Should i adjust my cake recipe to a bit dryer? Maybe i'll see some success from the pf 2 g jars. I only ended up getting some into 4 jars from half a cake because of the clumped cake issue but i think that's about what i wanted right?
don't throw them out. wait to see if they colonize. did you do the slurry? if so they should done in about 3 to 4 days. if you did the p2g it will take about 5-7 days. i generally shake on day 3. for the sake of experiment, id probably shoot that syringe into a few jars just to see what happens. if it contams toss it, if not you may have figured something out. i do store blended stem tissue in distilled water in syringes with no issues in the fridge. im not so sure about a blended up liquid pf cake that has chunks of brown rice flour in it. colonized or not. but i its worth a try everything is a few times.
Edited by eatyualive (08/22/14 05:57 AM)
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Fivel
Crazy Smurf



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20457872 - 08/22/14 06:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Doing P2G today. How many quart jars can you get out of one wide mouth half pint cake? I have 12 quarts of grain prepped. One cake will do it right?
-------------------- "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very EXISTENCE is an act of rebellion."
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FooMan



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#20459417 - 08/22/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte said: Excuse me if I'm missing something painfully obvious but, I think SBJ and space were thinking the same thing I am. If you do this with verm barrier and pf style lids is there not a chance that contams trapped in the dry verm layer could end up in the mix? They would not be a concern if fruiting or spawning but to inoculate grain spawn is a different beast.
I know a lot of the old School think us noobs are too paranoid about contams and that things like open air LC inoculations are an acceptable and measured risk or taking prints on the counter and making syringes with them is fine but, IME if I get even a little careless with my sterile tek or try to cut a corner it always seems to bite me in the ass. Hence why I would be hesitant to try something like this and even more reluctant to recommend it. Thoughts?
There may be a chance of contaminants getting into the mix just as there is a chance of contaminants entering your grain jars when you open them to do transfers. What makes this method work well regardless is the amount of inoculation points created by the cake. Eats uses fine grain verm in his cakes. When these cakes are broken up well, they crumble into tiny dust-like pieces. Each of these tiny pieces will then become a point from which mycelium grows. Look at the day 3 burma pic eat posted above. See all those tiny little bits of verm stuck to the sides of the jars? They're all inoculation points, much more than when using regular larger sized grains. This results in your grain jars colonizing much faster which means any contaminant present won't have time to germinate and take hold of the grains before the mycelium does. Sort of the same concept as pasteurizing your bulk subs except instead of pasteurizing the sub to allow the myc time to colonize it you're blasting the sterile grains with a ton of inoculation points that take over before anything else can.
One of the "painfully obvious" things you missed is the fact that THIS TEK WORKS, as proven in eats pics over YEARS on this forum and mycotopia. I've seen it in action myself and I've been using the same tek for my clones ever since eats showed it to me a few years ago and I've had 0 contams thus far. What's the point of coming into a thread to say why something shouldn't work when someone is proving to you it does? I don't get it.
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Quick WBS Prep
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: FooMan]
#20459528 - 08/22/14 01:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whoa I think you misinterpret my intent. I am not trying to bash the tek, nor am I ignorant of the fact that it works (at least for some people certainly eats results are impressive). I admit that I was guilty for harshing on things a bit, maybe my wording could have been better. I have been talking with eat on the subject recently and have since come around to the idea that speed and number of nock points counts for a lot (or at least more than I was giving credit for). Shit my best successes lately have been with LC and yet I would still hesitate to recommend them to everyone. The koolaide was going around a lot and I am sure I drank my share 
Anyway if I have come across as a doubting Thomas I apologize. Its just that I'm one if those people not simply satisfied with the "how" I need to know the "why" as well.
BTW its good to see the mods being more visible and on top of lippy noobs like me Hopefully the trend continues
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: FooMan]
#20459793 - 08/22/14 02:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What's the point of coming into a thread to say why something shouldn't work when someone is proving to you it does? (shrug) I don't get it.
In the past few years, new methods and techniques came about. They eat the old, and the somewhat newer posters forget (or maybe never even see certain methods) and think that one particular way is not only the best way but the only way that will effectively work.
I know that I didnt come up with the idea of doing P2G in the past by myself, probably saw eatyu's or another's growers posts. I've been doing P2G transfers since 07 with great success. It definitely was a great stepping stone for me to progress as a grower. I understand the skepticism of the (somewhat) newer growers (I say new, not amateur because I will concede that Pasty seems pretty knowledgeable)
The dogma is strong here, most people in the last few years simply parrot each other I've noticed. Not a lot of first hand experience. Seeing is believing though. It's funny, the collective cultivation dogma is so strong here that even TC's are getting questioned/challenged.
I actually have some pf to grain transfers I did yesterday, I'll post them somewhere when done. I want to give a special thanks to Foo, Eatyu, Oatman, Monstermitch, Ohmatic, and RR just to name a few. I've learned a lot from all of you. RR should chime in, he's an expert in explaining how and why things exactly work.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20459874 - 08/22/14 02:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey Pasty, I wasn't intending to attack you personally. Your concerns were definitely justified and I tried to explain the "why" in the first part of my reply. The last part of my post, even though it was in response to your post was due to my overall frustration with the closed-minded attitudes some members seem to have in the cult forum these days. Plus eats is a friend of mine and I've seen him take shit from members here for years over some of his methods.
I know you're good people and make positive contributions to the community. Yours just happened to be the lucky post I came across to vent some of my frustrations on I'm not mad at ya!
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20459944 - 08/22/14 02:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I tried to come up with a reply to your previous reply but only ended up answering my own questions with:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: the idea that speed and number of nock points counts for a lot (or at least more than I was giving credit for).
So say the verm barrier is riddled with mold spores and the schmuv makes them blow all over the recipient media but to no ill effect. Wouldn't this mean p2g can just as easily be done in open air simply because the mold spores dont have time to germinate and start eating?
mold contamed agar petri dishes would still raise a concern in my head if I were to use a schmuv. The transferred tissue wouldn't colonize the entire plate before the bad spores got to germinate on the edges of the petri.
Just like a FH, as far as I understand you shouldn't open contamed petris in front of that either..
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Loc: Canada
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: FooMan]
#20459998 - 08/22/14 03:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No worries I share some if your concerns and I think that the solution lies in better education, which might displace to some extent the tendency for some to simply repeat dogma. To that end I welcome some of the more oldschool guys coming back to the boards. Eat has been very tolerant of questions and I for one have learned a few things from him the last couple days
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20460009 - 08/22/14 03:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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its awesome how you stay clean doing this
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tripdawg420]
#20460109 - 08/22/14 03:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripdawg420 said: its awesome how you stay clean doing this 
If I remember correctly, I think I've seen you post that you've done P2G no?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
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nope link it
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tripdawg420]
#20460130 - 08/22/14 03:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I must be mistaken, thought you did though huh
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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nope im still scraching my head
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20460684 - 08/22/14 04:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: Doing P2G today. How many quart jars can you get out of one wide mouth half pint cake? I have 12 quarts of grain prepped. One cake will do it right?
that should work perfectly.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: FooMan]
#20460725 - 08/22/14 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
There may be a chance of contaminants getting into the mix just as there is a chance of contaminants entering your grain jars when you open them to do transfers. What makes this method work well regardless is the amount of inoculation points created by the cake. Eats uses fine grain verm in his cakes. When these cakes are broken up well, they crumble into tiny dust-like pieces. Each of these tiny pieces will then become a point from which mycelium grows. Look at the day 3 burma pic eat posted above. See all those tiny little bits of verm stuck to the sides of the jars? They're all inoculation points, much more than when using regular larger sized grains. This results in your grain jars colonizing much faster which means any contaminant present won't have time to germinate and take hold of the grains before the mycelium does. Sort of the same concept as pasteurizing your bulk subs except instead of pasteurizing the sub to allow the myc time to colonize it you're blasting the sterile grains with a ton of inoculation points that take over before anything else can.
Foo summed it up better than i can. lol
and hes right i used to use the coarse grade verm but since ive used this method, ive only used the fine verm in the pf jars. and that is the point, there are many inoculation points because you want to grind the pf cake into as tiny pieces as you can. so that there are even more inoculation points than grain so it colonizes quicker. i was trying to illustrate this with the close up pictures.
in response to the slurry thing. when your pf cake is a little more wet than normal, it doesn't break up as easily into smaller pieces so this will cause your grain to colonize slower. that doesn't mean that the cake won't work. and ive also p2g'd pf jars that are also too wet, it just resulted in a little slower colonization time but it did work.
now I have never said that this method isn't contam free. i have had contams more in the past than now. but its not anymore than if i had used a flowhood or a sab/ glovebox.
Edited by eatyualive (08/22/14 05:14 PM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: FooMan] 1
#20460753 - 08/22/14 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooMan said: Hey Pasty, I wasn't intending to attack you personally. Your concerns were definitely justified and I tried to explain the "why" in the first part of my reply. The last part of my post, even though it was in response to your post was due to my overall frustration with the closed-minded attitudes some members seem to have in the cult forum these days. Plus eats is a friend of mine and I've seen him take shit from members here for years over some of his methods.
I know you're good people and make positive contributions to the community. Yours just happened to be the lucky post I came across to vent some of my frustrations on I'm not mad at ya!
I'm glad you said this. I was starting to think questioning someones methods, especially when they defy my understanding, was an inappropriate way to expand my knowledge.
I understand what you mean though. With a lack of mods and TC's posting regularly, things have gotten a little weird. Ya'll made some good choices with the new mods.
-------------------- The Basics
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tripdawg420]
#20460761 - 08/22/14 05:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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tripdawg420 said: its awesome how you stay clean doing this 
thank you, im not the only one though. this has been tried and tested by many folks over many different sites. i posted this thread years ago. sometimes the threads get lost in space you know. its hard to dig around unless you know the name of what your looking for and something that might be interesting might be lost in the grains of sand.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi] 1
#20460793 - 08/22/14 05:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
Quote:
FooMan said: Hey Pasty, I wasn't intending to attack you personally. Your concerns were definitely justified and I tried to explain the "why" in the first part of my reply. The last part of my post, even though it was in response to your post was due to my overall frustration with the closed-minded attitudes some members seem to have in the cult forum these days. Plus eats is a friend of mine and I've seen him take shit from members here for years over some of his methods.
I know you're good people and make positive contributions to the community. Yours just happened to be the lucky post I came across to vent some of my frustrations on I'm not mad at ya!
I'm glad you said this. I was starting to think questioning someones methods, especially when they defy my understanding, was an inappropriate way to expand my knowledge.
I understand what you mean though. With a lack of mods and TC's posting regularly, things have gotten a little weird. Ya'll made some good choices with the new mods.
i in fact love people asking questions. please don't feel that i won't try to answer what i can. sometimes i miss a post or two and if i don't please pm if your in need of a quick response. i don't mind helping at all. im all for open discussion to find new things out. im not into arguing about something someone told you wouldn't work and then people repeat it over and over again that it doesn't. then ill show them 20 examples that it does work from many different growers. and they still want to try to begin to throw insults out or argue about something they have in fact never tried. have you tried it? that should be the answer to many of the questions.
and yes when i was starting to do those dub tubs ect. everyone was flaming the hell out of me. i kept saying why does everyone want to fan their tubs? do i? hell no, do you? hell now, who has time to sit there all day fanning? i don't. im always thinking of ways to make things as easy as they can be. which also why i don't put tape on my holes during incubation. i tape my black plastic to the wall and i do all kinds of things it seems most people aren't doing. so why is it all working if all these things people say don't work do work? that baffles the hell out me and i love people saying it won't work. so keep on saying it. ill prove you wrong.
so ill just post 400 successful results until those who critisize and write things off before trying it don't want to look at the thread anymore because it does work.
when i first did flatcakes. the idea was to fruit from all sides of the cake. and the fact that there was more surface area allowed more fruits. i still use this idea with bulk substrates to this day. ive even fruited bulk substrate like cakes like i have seen some growers do on the omc over the years. i treat my subs on dunks like cakes. i abuse the hell out of my substrates. oh man. i got flamed to hell by everyone about flatcakes and surface area. hippie3 used to ream me but after a while. he saw it actually worked and he came around. anytime people stray from the norm. there will be backlash. think of how many things we have today because someone else did it differently.
Edited by eatyualive (08/22/14 05:30 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: spacechildo]
#20460820 - 08/22/14 05:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: i in fact love people asking questions.
Great! Would you mind sharing your take on this? 
Quote:
spacechildo said: So say the verm barrier is riddled with mold spores and the schmuv makes them blow all over the recipient media but to no ill effect because of the fast colonization and many noc points.
Wouldn't this mean p2g can just as easily be done in open air simply because the mold spores dont have time to germinate and start eating before the mycel is 100% colonized?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Posts: 8,598
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20460846 - 08/22/14 05:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I feel ya man. Your posts have got me questioning everything I think I know about cultivation; you've actually inspired a change in mind-set.
I'm glad you don't mind my questioning because it's certainly not an attempt to say you're wrong. My questions are always an honest attempt to rationalize my understanding against what I see in front of me; for the most part, it's my understanding that changes.
Thank you for being you
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: spacechildo]
#20461273 - 08/22/14 07:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
eatyualive said: i in fact love people asking questions.
Great! Would you mind sharing your take on this? 
Quote:
spacechildo said: So say the verm barrier is riddled with mold spores and the schmuv makes them blow all over the recipient media but to no ill effect because of the fast colonization and many noc points.
Wouldn't this mean p2g can just as easily be done in open air simply because the mold spores dont have time to germinate and start eating before the mycel is 100% colonized?
ive done g2g in open air with no contams. i have not tried p2g in open air. that doesn't mean it can't be done.
there is something that ive tried several times just to try it.
i have a giant steel storage shelf i use for supplies and incubation. on the top shelf ive been attempting some open air g2g and prints using the top shelf. ill wipe the hell out of it and clean it with lysol and ive turned off the ac and prepped everything for clean work prior. but i figured it was just like a sab because the work area is closed for the most part. i successfully took prints and made syringes with no contams. the burma strain spore prints i did were done this way and its doing well right now in jars and quarts. although i p2ged the pf cake into the quarts using a shmuvbox and not open air. the only thing i get wary about is the long airtime on the pf jar when im scraping it in open air. you could try it. or do it in a still air box/glove box.
im more worried about the exposure than contams in my verm barrier. i don't find this to be the case. the jars colonize quickly.
open air works if you use those same principles. its similar to the still air box idea. but no box. lol.
ive also even tried a plain plastic 55 gallon clear lawn bag. i just taped it up to prop it up with no airflow and had successful liquid cultures trying this. its a little difficult to work in because the bag wants to fall all the time. there has to be a way to prop it up if your worried. i do all my clone and multispore injections open air. i don't generally do clean work open air though but i have done some in the past with success and failure. ive probably had more unsuccessful attempts than successful open air with grain to grain.
if there were mold spores present, then wouldn't a flowhood as easily blow mold spores everywhere? i think if the verm barrier were contaminated yes it would blow mold spores all over the grain and you would likely get contamination in your quarts. but here is the thing, i don't generally see a high degree of green mold contams in the quart jars i do using this method. mostly i see wetspot bacteria when i prep my quarts too wet by user error. that is not to say i have not had green mold in jars using this method over the years. green mold germinates quickly. the point is to try and colonize as quickly as possible. of course nothing is full proof but i scrape the verm barrier right into my shmuv on the plastic bag floor. maybe others may have advice on how you could take the verm barrier off prior to putting it in your clean work area if your truly worried. i don't even think or worry about that verm barrier and i have no issues.
you know, i keep my foil over my holes in my pf jars and don't use filtered lids. i haven't had a high percentage of contamination using the verm barrier. i am not by any way using this barrier to inoculate the grain jars. but sometimes you have mycelia growing into the verm barrier. that buffer is removed before inoculating.
you can also use a still air box to do this p2g method. you just want to use quick movements and minimize air time when you open the grain jar. i'd be more worried about the exposed grain to the open air than the verm barrier causing an issue.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20471892 - 08/24/14 08:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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 so here's a couple i slurry tek inoc.'d on 8/21(late). i shook them today but I can't tell if the extra amount of slurry i used in these jars will cause bacteria (can't see any pooling ) but at least i can see the true power of the slurry. AMAZING I also used jars that had been sitting around after pcing for 3 weeks so i wasn't expecting anything except a first try at it. Now that i have that first experience the next should be that much easier. I have a few more jars that i didn't dump from this session that are probably about half as colonised because i used probably about half as much slurry. I used too much liquid for half the cake(1/2 qt water) Also this cake was inoculated with a wedge i am not 100% sure about so the future ones will be much more reliable as far as results. Doing up the real attempt tommorrow with fresh jars and a clean cake.
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/25/14 03:46 AM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20472189 - 08/24/14 09:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said:
 so here's a couple i slurry tek inoc.'d on 8/21(late). i shook them today but I can't tell if the extra amount of slurry i used in these jars will cause bacteria (can't see any poolong ) but at least i can see the true power of the slurry. AMAZING I also used jars that had been sitting around after pcing for 3 weeks so i wasn't expecting anything except a first try at it. Now that i have that first experience the next should be that much easier. I have a few more jars that i didn't dump from this session that are probably about half as colonised because i used probably about half as much slurry. I used too much liquid for half the cake(1/2 qt water) Also this cake was inoculated with a wedge i am not 100% sure about so the future ones will be much more reliable as far as results. Doing up the real attempt tommorrow with fresh jars and a clean cake.
those look good. i don't think your supposed to shake the jars. so it looks like your about 3 days in for the full colonization. thats about what i had when i tried it a few times.
yeah after a few trials you will end up figuring out how much slurry to use. also you could build the lid like tv casualty does. it looks handy, i just havn't searched at home depot for the top attachment. you have the right idea. test out your jars your not worried about. but also you can factor in that the old jars could be a reason that could cause issues. if your not having issues, awesome!
next round, try to let it colonize all the way through without shaking it. i think your jars would have been fluffy white by tomorrow. the idea is not to shake the slurry. you initially shake it all up nice and even to get the slurry touching all the grain. then the idea is to let it grow. or let it go..lol congrats! not too hard is it?
its also kinda ghetto but it works. the first few times i did it the pooling also bothered me quite a bit but i held out and let it do its thing and sure enough it worked perfectly. also you want to use maybe a pint of water to the 1/2 pint cake. this makes the blended up cake more of a sludge or slurry. this allows it to stick to the grain when you shake up your transfer. it will make all the jars look gooey at the bottom by later that day or the next day. but by mid day 2 you start seeing it go to work. by day 3 it should look like what you have. if you had waited til morning that jar would have been pure white. i grew out around 20 tubs using this method without any ill effects. you can see how this can be of great benefit by using 1 pf cake to inoculate and colonize 100 quart jars in 3 days. its absolutely amazing. and...its old news! come on people get with the program.
Edited by eatyualive (08/24/14 09:37 PM)
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20472249 - 08/24/14 09:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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that's cool like i said i did it just for the learning experience and i was lucky to have something i was going to dump to try it on. Now i've learned a whole lot from my mistakes (mostly READ THE WHOLE TEK and don't stray from it). My C2G was pretty weak as i transferred half a cake into four jars and the cake was mushy and clumped up so i couldn't break it into smaller pieces and barely got any inoculation points in each jar. Maybe i need to have a dryer mix for this tek?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20472273 - 08/24/14 09:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: that's cool like i said i did it just for the learning experience and i was lucky to have something i was going to dump to try it on. Now i've learned a whole lot from my mistakes (mostly READ THE WHOLE TEK and don't stray from it). My C2G was pretty weak as i transferred half a cake into four jars and the cake was mushy and clumped up so i couldn't break it into smaller pieces and barely got any inoculation points in each jar. Maybe i need to have a dryer mix for this tek?
well. sometimes you stray and find new things. i mean i strayed a little by pouring instead of using the lid build but it still worked well. so i think it has some room for leeway. i think you did great.
yes drier is better. but today i just did a p2g cake to grain. the 2nd one i did today was on the wetter side. the end and bottom of the pf jar gets a little muddy but it still works. i ended up having a ton of big chunks at the bottom. so what i do then is just use the fork to break it up by spearing it and using a twisting motion. make the chunks as small as you can. although sometimes you can't get away from the bigger chunks. in this instance you will probably see slower growth in the jars. but it will still colonize well. i think you have re inspired me to try slurry tek once again. when i first did it i thought this would revolutionize indoor cultivation. but most people have no clue it exists. hey i like sharing, but this is one of those things, that only the og's know. now everyone needs to know.
my recipe for 24 pf jars 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 5.5 cups water. i use a half cup less so the pf jars are a little dryer. i intentionally do this for liquid culture injections.
regular 24 pf jar recipe 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 6 cups water
Edited by eatyualive (08/25/14 07:42 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20472345 - 08/24/14 10:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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i also updated the original post to explain my lower water content pf mix specifically for liquid cloning and p2g transfers. the dryer mix also helps the p2g because it allows the pf cake to break up into smaller pieces for transfer.
im sorry i didn't mention this before i overlooked that part. but now, you helped me update things correctly. i appreciate it.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20473164 - 08/25/14 02:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are awesome. ^^^^that's the info I needed! What do you think is the best way to colonise a cake the fastest? LC? If I make the cake a lot dryer can i dump a load of lc all over it?
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/25/14 02:35 AM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20473507 - 08/25/14 06:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm doing cake 2 grain today. I was going to do it a few days ago but I decided to let my cake consolidate a little longer. Today is the day, I'll post my results here if you'd like. I have high hopes, and 15 quarts of prepped grain.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8] 1
#20473524 - 08/25/14 06:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: What do you think is the best way to colonise a cake the fastest? LC? If I make the cake a lot dryer can i dump a load of lc all over it?
LC is slower than spores if you take into consideration the time it takes for the LC to actually colonize, and then the time the test jars take to actually colonize....plus the obvious inherent added contam risk....
Just use spores.....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
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Edited by PussyFart (08/25/14 06:13 AM)
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: PussyFart]
#20474543 - 08/25/14 12:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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how bout agar for colonizing cakes? (or agar LI?) and i already have lc colonized so just looking to make the most out of it. The lc was made with agar wedges as well... I guess i'll try em all and see what works best.
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/25/14 02:01 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: PussyFart]
#20475761 - 08/25/14 05:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: you are awesome. ^^^^that's the info I needed! What do you think is the best way to colonise a cake the fastest? LC? If I make the cake a lot dryer can i dump a load of lc all over it?
this post shows some close ups of my mix. and a description of how i add that last bit of water to the mix.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20300997#20300997
here is another post i made with some better close ups of the wet mix after i blend it with a hand mixer.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20428297#20428297
ill then use a syringe full of lc and inject one whole or a half syringe into 1 pf jar. this grows very fast with liquid cultures in a few days and then i can g2g that or blend it up and make a ton of jars with a slurry. you may even find that if your going to add a whole syringe to the pf jar, you may want to add 1 cup less than the 6 cups total water for the 24 pf jars. just divide the formula by 24 to get the individual jar ratio.
but if you intend to try the slurry. id inject your lc with a sterile syringe into a pf jar. i usually use a sterile syringe and suck up the liquid culture into it, then inject into a pf jar. im always hesitant adding more moisture to grain jars. but lc's are quick and usually colonize the jars rather quickly. but pf jars are a safe bet. and also, if your only injecting 2 pf jars. your not contaminating 10 quarts if your using a dirty lc. so pf jars for me are also a way of testing if something is clean or not.
Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
tombosley8 said: What do you think is the best way to colonise a cake the fastest? LC? If I make the cake a lot dryer can i dump a load of lc all over it?
LC is slower than spores if you take into consideration the time it takes for the LC to actually colonize, and then the time the test jars take to actually colonize....plus the obvious inherent added contam risk....
Just use spores.....
hey pf, i think hes trying to test out his slurry. so its not a matter of speed from spores compared to lc's. it sounds like tomb already has a liquid culture ready to go. the slurry is absolutely fantastic. you can make 100 quart jars colonized in 3 days off 1 pf cake. hes just trying to get the hang of it now. thats why he wants a fast pf jar to test it out. or maybe hes using it for the p2g. but the regular pf jars he has were a little too wet/muddy. but if your starting with a liquid culture already made and starting a pf jar spore injection. lc will blow it away.
Edited by eatyualive (08/25/14 07:45 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20475772 - 08/25/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: I'm doing cake 2 grain today. I was going to do it a few days ago but I decided to let my cake consolidate a little longer. Today is the day, I'll post my results here if you'd like. I have high hopes, and 15 quarts of prepped grain. 
please do.
fivel i like the avatar!
yes for the benefit of this tek, you want a fully colonized cake, good idea.
Edited by eatyualive (08/25/14 06:39 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20477611 - 08/25/14 11:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so what the easiest way to sterilize a syringe to use for the LC? Is it worth the trouble or should i just buy some? and will a pharmacy carry these in the size we want? I have a bunch of used syringes that i'd like to be able to reuse if possible.... I was thinking shouldn't the boil water and suck up and expunge a few times do the trick or maybe leave the boiling water in it and then just dump it out when needed? ACTUALLY Can I pc them???????
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/25/14 11:46 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20477662 - 08/25/14 11:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: so what the easiest way to sterilize a syringe to use for the LC? Is it worth the trouble or should i just buy some? and will a pharmacy carry these in the size we want? I have a bunch of used syringes that i'd like to be able to reuse if possible.... I was thinking shouldn't the boil water and suck up and expunge a few times do the trick or maybe leave the boiling water in it and then just dump it out when needed? ACTUALLY Can I pc them???????
You can PC them wrapped in foil. I suck up boiling water 3-4 times and let it sit for a minute in between. Then I leave a syringe full of boiling water and put it in the fridge until I need it. I haven't done LC's in forever, but this is what I did.
Same thing for spore syringes. Squirt out the water in a shot glass, scrape off some spores and suck it back up.
Go to a farm supply store for the syringes. They have the bigger ones for livestock. Don't be lookin' too sketchy though...dress like a farmer....jk
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20478147 - 08/26/14 05:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: so what the easiest way to sterilize a syringe to use for the LC? Is it worth the trouble or should i just buy some? and will a pharmacy carry these in the size we want? I have a bunch of used syringes that i'd like to be able to reuse if possible.... I was thinking shouldn't the boil water and suck up and expunge a few times do the trick or maybe leave the boiling water in it and then just dump it out when needed? ACTUALLY Can I pc them???????
in the past, ive cleaned out the syringe with rubbing alcohol. sucking it up and shooting it out. then push it all out. id then take it apart and soak the entire thing in rubbing alcohol. a bleach solution wouldn't hurt either.
i would then wrap it in foil and pressure cook. these days i use 100% sterile syringes out of the box and unwrap them. i don't like taking any chances. although, i used to also attempt liquid cultures with those giant syringes used for measuing chemicals. you can usually find those in the chemical area at home depot.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20478385 - 08/26/14 07:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
please do.
fivel i like the avatar!
yes for the benefit of this tek, you want a fully colonized cake, good idea.
I dig the avatar too! Lol thanks for letting me use it Eats, you rock!
Here are 4 of the 12 I inoculated P2G. This is less than 24 hours since the xfer. There are some bigger chunks, I worked quickly and being it was my first crack at it I didn't do as well as I had hoped but they will be fine. Just could have been better if I had broken it up a little more. Oh well though they will be just fine. The inoculation points are crazy small. Some as small as a grain of sand and they are fuzzing up! I can understand why it works so well now. Anyway here is the pic. I'll update them day by day so you can see the progression.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20480891 - 08/26/14 07:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:
please do.
fivel i like the avatar!
yes for the benefit of this tek, you want a fully colonized cake, good idea.
I dig the avatar too! Lol thanks for letting me use it Eats, you rock!
Here are 4 of the 12 I inoculated P2G. This is less than 24 hours since the xfer. There are some bigger chunks, I worked quickly and being it was my first crack at it I didn't do as well as I had hoped but they will be fine. Just could have been better if I had broken it up a little more. Oh well though they will be just fine. The inoculation points are crazy small. Some as small as a grain of sand and they are fuzzing up! I can understand why it works so well now. Anyway here is the pic. I'll update them day by day so you can see the progression.

nice! sending shroom vibes your way!
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20484800 - 08/27/14 03:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so i ended up grabbing a couple of those injectors they use for roasts and turkeys that holds 30 ml and i'm hoping they are pcabable. Pretty thick plastic but i'm afraid the metal needle attachment may melt the plastic while pcing. My Home Depot didn't have the syringes but they said i could order them online. I think i'll just clean it with bleach and iso then do the boiling water method and see how it works before pcing. I got some pics of those jars i'll upload soon.... the two that i shook are now behind the slower ones and i have full colonization (nearly) on one of the jars. I'm going to wait til tomorrow to g2g just to be safe. How long do you pc your syringes?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20485648 - 08/27/14 07:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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30 mins 15 psi.
that sux. well, hmm yeah it was years ago when they used to carry them. i haven't checked recently. the p2g shots you have are growing but you definitely want more inoculation points. but you will get it. its not difficult. i have a feeling you will get it on the next try.
i actually had a batch stall out due to my lids. i think my really old ports crapped out on me. so i dumped the jars out, put new grain in the jars and low and behold. same thing happened. it didn't contam, but after a shake the jars just stalled out. i dumped em and had no bacterial smell. it smelled like cooked grain.
im about to start replacing all my filter ports. they were all made about the same time more than 5 years ago and im pretty sure its about time to replace them.
soon im going to post examples of several strains doing the p2g with the full colonization to show similarities of growth between different strains.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20485739 - 08/27/14 07:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Late update, my bad lol. I took these pics this morning so this is less than 48 hours since the transfer.

There are a bunch of little bitty noc points fuzzing up now I have a feeling they are gonna blow up quick in the next couple days.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20488136 - 08/28/14 09:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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looking good. not as many inoculation points but it will colonize. not as quickly either. sure enough today with my jars that were stalling out, i had loosened the lids last night and boom, im seeing growth begin again. im about to switch all of my old whatman ports into cutout sfds. i think that should fix my issue.
i tend to shake mine at the end of day 3 but as you said, you didn't quite get as many inoculation points as would be ideal, but when they grow a little more give em a shake. you can see that when there are smaller pieces it colonizes much faster. however, it will still work. i think your correct, it will explode soon.
Edited by eatyualive (08/28/14 09:15 AM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20488366 - 08/28/14 10:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah they are looking good today. In hindsight I think I should do 1 half pint cake to 6 quart jars. Maybe 8, but I wouldn't go over 8. I have 9 more cakes I'm gonna stick in the fridge for masters. I'll figure out the perfect ratio sometime in the next couple months. I'll post pics of my jars later today. I feel like I'll be shaking them on Saturday.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20489050 - 08/28/14 01:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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i normally do 10 quarts but ive done up to 15. the issue is that whatever particle size your finding the pieces breakup to, then you can adjust that number accordingly. if the cake is on the dry side and you can break it up into a ton of little pieces, then that works quicker. if its bigger chunks and you find consistently that your pf mix is on the wetter side, then maybe lower your quart per pf cake ratio. but, the slurry works magic wonders. which im about to test when i get some empty quart jars. i got a buddy using this method and its so fast. you can even make the ratio of cake to water/slurry a little muddier if your using it for less jars. then its not as much water your adding to the quarts.
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tombosley8
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20489631 - 08/28/14 03:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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slurry works magical wonders. This is the update: the two on the left were the shaken in comparison with the three to the right that were not:  and some side by sides with the shaken one on the left and non-shaken on the right:  so the ones that i shook were ahead of the others and now after a shake are probobly right in line with the others (or less ) well anyways lesson learned again thanks i did a slightly weak slurry with a trusted cake/culture on the 25th but it looks like i should made it stronger. I c2gd a couple jars from that cake and should have just slurried it. Anyway i got some cakes (still regular mix) noc'd up with a bunch of lc and they are blowing up and i just pc'd a bunch more cakes at you recommended recipe and did some even dryer just to see how much lc i can hit em with. This is so much fun watching the rapid growth and very gratifying (almost instant). I urge other cultivators to give the slurry a try it has changed everything for me so for these jars above i am going to test a jar in some bulk to see if the cake was contammed or not but as far as slurry performanceI have no issues yet and i thought that these were fails off the bat because i used so much liquid in the slurry. Really surprised me
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20489668 - 08/28/14 03:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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beautiful my friend. i am going to do this again shortly here. also, please reply and post your results in this thread for me. i think its ok to bump because its relevant.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=10648149&page=0&vc=1#10648149
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20489734 - 08/28/14 04:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Day 3 since the P2G, Lookin pretty damn good actually.

I'm not worried if these take a little bit. All of these cakes were inoculated with agar wedges and they didn't have the dry verm layer and had filtered GE so I know they are all clean.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel] 1
#20489825 - 08/28/14 04:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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those are definitely better looking than my p2g but i will try again when i get these dryer cakes colonized. Thanks Eatyu forgot about that thread. I'll definitely post my original pics along with the recent ones to that thread and hopefully be back shortly with another attempt at p2g(when my dryer cakes are done) just so i know i can do it...
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Edited by tombosley8 (08/28/14 04:45 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20489831 - 08/28/14 04:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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looks good! i can't zoom in too much to the pictures.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tombosley8]
#20489838 - 08/28/14 04:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: those are definitely better looking than my p2g but i will try again when i get these dryer cakes colonized. Thanks Eatyu forgot about that thread. I'll definitely post my original pics along with the recent ones to that thread and hopefully be back to this thread shortly with another attempt at p2g(when my dryer cakes are done) just so i know i can do it... 
yes you will notice that the p2g and g2g take much longer to establish a foothold onto the media. while the slurry is almost instantaneous.
i also updated the post saying not to shake the jars. however, if you post your results in that thread. ill work it into the original post and update your results as well. i feel that it wasn't a bad thing that you shook the jars, but it wasn't completely necessary. and thats a thing people can decide to do for themselves. like option a or option b.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20489889 - 08/28/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Goddamn eatyualive!!! I'm going to read this whole thread in a few hours. Amazing! !
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: azur]
#20489909 - 08/28/14 05:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Goddamn eatyualive!!! I'm going to read this whole thread in a few hours. Amazing! !
i know tv doesn't come around this way, but we should all be thanking him as well. TVCasualty!!
Edited by eatyualive (08/28/14 05:03 PM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20489915 - 08/28/14 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mr. Alien
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: azur]
#20489933 - 08/28/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:

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Fivel
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Mr. Alien]
#20490106 - 08/28/14 06:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah sorry I'm using my shitty phone camera to take pictures. I haven't got a camera They are looking pretty good right now though. I'm going to guess it will be under two weeks for full colonization.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20490132 - 08/28/14 06:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: Yeah sorry I'm using my shitty phone camera to take pictures. I haven't got a camera They are looking pretty good right now though. I'm going to guess it will be under two weeks for full colonization.
yes. so this will help you adjust the ratio you need. ideally you want about a 5-7 day full colonization. nothing wrong with 2 weeks. but the key here is to do it quickly when your in need of speed. there is nothing wrong with doing less per jar and get multiple colonized jars if you want to be patient and wait a little longer. its not as fast as liquid inoculants, but its good if your only have 10-15 quarts of spawn you want to do. and if you need 15 or more to 100 quarts do the slurry.
Edited by eatyualive (08/28/14 06:16 PM)
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20492131 - 08/29/14 07:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok so the tex and burma multispore i did had a bit of an issue.
the issue was that my whatman ports life span just ended. i ended up tossing out the burma thinking it was a contam i couldn't see. there was no visibly contamination and no baterial smell.
i then filled the tex strain in those same jars on the next go round. well, they stalled as well after a shake on day 3. so i loosened the lids and ge began again and i could see the myclia perking up after 8 hours.
TEX YELLOW CAP STRAIN
Day 1 : inoculation
Day 2:

Day 3: before a shake
  Day 4: Stall
Day 5: Stall so here is the tex on p2g with a two day stall after 3 days. its starting to wake back up finally. i was worried bc i want this strain its my favorite.
Day 6: this is after it perked up 8 hours later

here it Day 7: you Can pretty much add 2 days to the colonization time because of the delay.

THAI LIPA YAI
Day 2:

Day 3:
 
Day 4: after a shake

R44
Day 2:

Day 3:
[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/14-35/918835965-tlyp2gday3.jpg] [/url Day 4: after a shake

you can see that most of the strains have a similar growth speed. the tex would be complete if it weren't for the two day stall. ill update op later.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20494996 - 08/29/14 07:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Day 4 I'll shake them in the morning.
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20496980 - 08/30/14 10:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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updated op with 3 strains comparison. time frame is very similar. tex is fastest so even with a 2 day gap it caught up with the other jars.
Edited by eatyualive (08/30/14 10:30 AM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20497000 - 08/30/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: Day 4 I'll shake them in the morning.

looking good. you said you did 1 pf jar to 12 quarts?
Edited by eatyualive (08/30/14 10:42 AM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: shaymisco]
#20497013 - 08/30/14 10:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaymisco said: I have a friend that does this, I think it is dumb and tried to argue but he still does. LC to PF without the dry verm layer (grain style lid) to grain. I do not recommend that though.
explain to me why you don't suggest this if it works well? im showing you 3 separate batches of 3 different strains that are working 100% what is the issue? there are no contams at all.
Edited by eatyualive (08/30/14 10:39 AM)
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azur
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20497014 - 08/30/14 10:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
shaymisco said: I have a friend that does this, I think it is dumb and tried to argue but he still does. LC to PF without the dry verm layer (grain style lid) to grain. I do not recommend that though.
explain to me why you don't suggest this if it works well?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: azur]
#20497055 - 08/30/14 11:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:
Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
shaymisco said: I have a friend that does this, I think it is dumb and tried to argue but he still does. LC to PF without the dry verm layer (grain style lid) to grain. I do not recommend that though.
explain to me why you don't suggest this if it works well?
the reason i ask is because...
ive been using this method more than 10 years. i do a batch of 20 quarts a week(AT MINIMUM). I've used this method over the last 10 years consistently week after week. im talking 10yrs x 52 weeks a year x 20 jars a week = 10,400 jars tested. my contam ratio is very little. i can count a handful of 10 jar batches over that time span that have completely contaminated. ive been noticing a few issues ive had were sfd lids crapping out from old age causing ge issues but that wasn't due to the p2g transfer. that was a completely different issue altogether. for me this method is as full proof as the pf tek. your margin of error is very low. there are some things like preparing your grain properly and using clean technique that need to be learned first. but once you learn that, this isn't that hard at all.
Edited by eatyualive (08/30/14 11:04 AM)
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20502714 - 08/31/14 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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updated op with tly and r44 day 6.

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azur
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20502716 - 08/31/14 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Verdy verdy nice
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tripdawg420
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: azur]
#20502782 - 08/31/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fivel
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tripdawg420]
#20518905 - 09/04/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sorry I haven't been updating. I have been busy.. 2 tubs pinning and I spawned 2 more I wanted to finish my updates though. I took this last night.

All 12 jars are done. I shook them on day 5 like I said I was going to and they were about 45% when I shook. They blew up after that of course and it took 8 days for full colonization. I def will be using this in the future. I threw 4 cakes in the fridge for my next 4 spawn runs.
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20518939 - 09/04/14 11:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Exciting
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tripdawg420
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20520292 - 09/04/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: Sorry I haven't been updating. I have been busy.. 2 tubs pinning and I spawned 2 more I wanted to finish my updates though. I took this last night.

All 12 jars are done. I shook them on day 5 like I said I was going to and they were about 45% when I shook. They blew up after that of course and it took 8 days for full colonization. I def will be using this in the future. I threw 4 cakes in the fridge for my next 4 spawn runs.
great job, and that is very slow. next time it will be around 5 days for you when you update a few things like ratios and pf jar texture ect.
may i add your results to the original post?
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20520574 - 09/04/14 06:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
Fivel said: Sorry I haven't been updating. I have been busy.. 2 tubs pinning and I spawned 2 more I wanted to finish my updates though. I took this last night.

All 12 jars are done. I shook them on day 5 like I said I was going to and they were about 45% when I shook. They blew up after that of course and it took 8 days for full colonization. I def will be using this in the future. I threw 4 cakes in the fridge for my next 4 spawn runs.
great job, and that is very slow. next time it will be around 5 days for you when you update a few things like ratios and pf jar texture ect.
may i add your results to the original post?
Go for it eats! I def like this tek and I'll prob be using it quite a bit.
-------------------- "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very EXISTENCE is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus
Have Orissa Prints for trade!
In search of PF albino, PF redspore, PF classic
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20520619 - 09/04/14 06:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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fivel,
have you seen the liquid spawn tek? its only 3 days colonization for grain jars with 1 pf cake you can inoculate 100 quart jars!!!!!!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10648149
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive] 1
#20639788 - 09/30/14 11:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Final update #1
I spawned 2 tubs from those. I got 1 flush out of one of them and it triched out on me during second flush. I dug out the substrate and fruited it in another house to finish the flush and ended up with 5 1/2 oz dry the second tub I got 3 flushes out of and about 8 3/4 oz out of it. The first flush on that one was a few grams shy of 6 ounces  Here is the picture of the first flush before I cut anything and before it had a chance to fully mature 

I pulled a cake out the fridge and spawned P2G another 12 quarts 4 days ago. I'm shaking them today. I expect a 7 day colonization.
-------------------- "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very EXISTENCE is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus
Have Orissa Prints for trade!
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tripdawg420
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20639837 - 09/30/14 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fivel
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: tripdawg420]
#20640367 - 09/30/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah that was a good flush right there. I was impressed with it. Orissa India Limited MS Agar to Pf cakes then cakes to grain. I have a pin in the big one cause I was getting ready to chop it and print it. Speaking of which I took prints. . .
-------------------- "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very EXISTENCE is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus
Have Orissa Prints for trade!
In search of PF albino, PF redspore, PF classic
"... the associations between sadism and GAIT (Global Assessment of Internet Trolling) scores were so strong that it might be said that online trolls are prototypical everyday sadists."
         
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Fivel]
#20641290 - 09/30/14 05:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fivel said: Final update #1
I spawned 2 tubs from those. I got 1 flush out of one of them and it triched out on me during second flush. I dug out the substrate and fruited it in another house to finish the flush and ended up with 5 1/2 oz dry the second tub I got 3 flushes out of and about 8 3/4 oz out of it. The first flush on that one was a few grams shy of 6 ounces  Here is the picture of the first flush before I cut anything and before it had a chance to fully mature 

I pulled a cake out the fridge and spawned P2G another 12 quarts 4 days ago. I'm shaking them today. I expect a 7 day colonization. 
beautiful fivel. im running some tests now on a bunch of p2g tubs. one of them is on its 3rd flush. i have two on 2nd flush and a few flushing 1st flush now. ive taken them personally to about 4 flushes at most but i usually chunk them after 2nd flush. nice flush by the way!!!
time to move on to slurry and you will say "oh fuck i have way too much spawn i don't even know what to do with it"
lol.

what type of substrate were you using and how much spawn per tub if you don't mind me asking?
also for the fastest clone possible try the 9er tek its just unbelievable. if you think you got a good yield off of multispore. just wait till you see what a quick clone can do for ya.
its funny ive seen people say 1 quart spawn = 1oz dry. but man ive had yields double that and others as well. straw and dung alone can give me some heavy yield i just hate chopping straw so ill go with the easier grow method over chopping straw lol. also, buying dung because i don't have a good supply so its super easy to use wheat grass instead.it yields much lower like betwen 4-6z a flush but im ok with that on multispore. as far as a clone you can almost double that!
Edited by eatyualive (09/30/14 05:42 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20722415 - 10/18/14 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Eat, I inoculated a cake with some LI 4 days ago. I made the cake on the dry side and I added some dehydrated manure to the mix to help soak up some of the excess water. Seems to be doing pretty good. Not sure what I gonna use it to inoculate but I will update here 
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20722450 - 10/18/14 10:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah looking good. got some nice even growth. if you decide to slurry you may want to make sure you have about 40 quarts ready. because you may be throwing half of it out if you use less. now, i generally use the tall 1/2 pints but that one should work if you do slurry. but you may want to cut it down the middle from top down. im thinking that will fit. you may want to measure that width cut in half to see if it will fit in a pint jar to do the slurry blending. otherwise you could p2g it. and if your worried about sterility, you can pressure cook a fork for 20 mins at 15psi and it will be fine. although i don't do that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking extra measures to ensure cleanliness. i know sometimes when i posts fast it sounds like im making a mockery of clean technique but that is completely not true. i am completely super anal about making things clean. i even pressure cook all utensils prior to flame sterilizing them even if its overkill.
also the addition of the dung should work fine. as long as its colonized it will work great!
only reason i would think grain might not work as well is that when you blend it up the inside part of the grain that isn't colonized might cause an issue. but, if it colonizes extremely fast it may work. i haven't tried slurrying grrain yet. but im thinking since you mentioned it, i might in the future here. you may beat me to it though. got alot going right now. texfest is on its way! got the ape clone coming also.
Edited by eatyualive (10/18/14 10:30 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20722493 - 10/18/14 10:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm thinking P2G for this one. Might make some mini cakes in some 1/4 pints to try slurry with, be easier to get in the pint for blending. Cakes do colonize very fast with LI, this one finished in 10 days, just doing a little consolidation.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20722658 - 10/18/14 11:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I'm thinking P2G for this one. Might make some mini cakes in some 1/4 pints to try slurry with, be easier to get in the pint for blending. Cakes do colonize very fast with LI, this one finished in 10 days, just doing a little consolidation.

the texture of your mycelia looks just like my slurried jars up close!
yeah see this is why i love stem cloning. if i inject 10cc into 1 pf jar i get colonized pf jar in 4 days. then i slurry that to 40-100 quarts and i have enough spawn for 20 tubs of that same clone in less than 10 days. its awesome!
lets say you give it 4 more days to consolidate. then you have 14 days with a giant amount of clone spawn.
also, a good thing to take note of is that when you do slurry your jars. your spawn consolidates in about a day after full colonization. i left the gt jars i had slurried for about 4 extra days and i had a real tough time even getting the spawn out of the jars with a spoon. rock solid!
leave them an extra week and you might as well get a drill lmao
Edited by eatyualive (10/18/14 11:53 PM)
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blackdust


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20750513 - 10/25/14 06:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am going to use 1/2 pint PF cakes to 6 lb pound WBS spawn bags. How many cakes should I put in each bag?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blackdust]
#20751516 - 10/25/14 12:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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how many quarts volume are the bags total? just do an estimate based on quarts. if i can use 1/2 pint for 10-15 quarts. then whatever volume your bags hold estimate it at that. so if your bag holds 4 quarts. then you can easily do 3-4 of those bags with one 1/2 pint.
Edited by eatyualive (10/25/14 12:37 PM)
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blackdust


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20751585 - 10/25/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: how many quarts volume are the bags total? just do an estimate based on quarts. if i can use 1/2 pint for 10-15 quarts. then whatever volume your bags hold estimate it at that. so if your bag holds 4 quarts. then you can easily do 3-4 of those bags with one 1/2 pint.
If I was to go 1 half pint to a 5 quart bag, would I see a faster colonization time for the bag?
Thanks!
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blackdust]
#20752109 - 10/25/14 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes you would see faster colonization. id say a week or less. you may need to shake/mix the bag up. but see how it looks. you may not need to. if you can scrape it into enough small pieces and mix it up very evenly throughout the grain it will colonize rather quickly. i also do the slurry in the bags. where i blend up 1/2 pint pf cake into sterlie water and pour it into the bags.
if your looking for speed and volume then slurry and liquid inoculant are the way to go. here is an example after about 3-4 days. if your a bit new to cultivation you may want to take it one step at at a time. get a few grows in, then try this after you have your clean technique down!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10648149
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blackdust


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20752345 - 10/25/14 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: Yes you would see faster colonization. id say a week or less. you may need to shake/mix the bag up. but see how it looks. you may not need to. if you can scrape it into enough small pieces and mix it up very evenly throughout the grain it will colonize rather quickly. i also do the slurry in the bags. where i blend up 1/2 pint pf cake into sterlie water and pour it into the bags.
if your looking for speed and volume then slurry and liquid inoculant are the way to go. here is an example after about 3-4 days. if your a bit new to cultivation you may want to take it one step at at a time. get a few grows in, then try this after you have your clean technique down!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10648149
I'm so going slurry!
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purpdiv
Stranger
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blackdust]
#20923074 - 12/03/14 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What would be the optimal conditions for this tek?
TEMP= LIGHT=
IS THERE A SPECIFIC TEMP PER STRAIN/RACE?
I AM HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING AN LC CULTURE TO GROW FAST ENOUGH, 2 WEEKS INTO IT AND ONLY 2 SMALL COTTONY PUFF BALLS IN SUSPENSION KEPT AT 81F IN AN INCUBATOR.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#20923095 - 12/03/14 03:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Get it out of the incubator, room temp is fine. Chances are its not the temps slowing things up.
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purpdiv
Stranger
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20923220 - 12/03/14 03:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is quite cold here at the moment, the room stays at about 62F (16.8C) during the day time.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#20923378 - 12/03/14 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then turn the temp down. I would have it at no more than 75. Mycelium growth rates plateau in the high seventies and drop off in the 80's resulting in slow colonization.
However that is probably not why your LC stalled. Contam is more likely. You should make a thread on the board instead of jacking this one and post a pic if you want a good response.
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purpdiv
Stranger
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20923557 - 12/03/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jacking? not my intention.
I Want to use this tek with some cakes currently colonizing(at~70%), but the temps is my concern based on the observations from the LCs experiments(honey,karo,dex-lme) behavior.
Are the mycelia growths temps specific to strains/races?
I have noticed that everybody says "ROOM TEMP" does that refers to STP (32F/0C,1 Atmosphere) in chemistry or not?
Thanks
now is clear. "Definition: Room temperature, IS A RANGE of temperatures that denote comfortable habitation for humans.
Room temperature can be any temperature between 20 ยฐC/68F and 29 ยฐC/84.2 . 300 K) "
Edited by purpdiv (12/03/14 05:44 PM)
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



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Posts: 18,919
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#20923577 - 12/03/14 04:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you are comfortable, your shrooms are comfortable.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Posts: 8,598
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#20923583 - 12/03/14 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"room temperature" means "if you're comfortable in a t-shirt and shorts, then your mushrooms are, too." It applies to all the "strains" of P.Cubensis at all stages of growth.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#20924129 - 12/03/14 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
purpdiv said: What would be the optimal conditions for this tek?
TEMP= LIGHT=
IS THERE A SPECIFIC TEMP PER STRAIN/RACE?
I AM HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING AN LC CULTURE TO GROW FAST ENOUGH, 2 WEEKS INTO IT AND ONLY 2 SMALL COTTONY PUFF BALLS IN SUSPENSION KEPT AT 81F IN AN INCUBATOR.
room temps. i usually keep my temp between 76-78F. but i do place all my jars incubating next to each other in a closed shelf. i just stick all my jars in this at room temp. or on a shelf in a chest of drawers. something that has little airflow in it.

Edited by eatyualive (12/03/14 06:16 PM)
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purpdiv
Stranger
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20925110 - 12/03/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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THANKS EAT AND PAST, VERY HELPFUL
Edited by purpdiv (12/03/14 09:19 PM)
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bburnett227
???

Registered: 04/29/15
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: purpdiv]
#21924953 - 07/10/15 02:57 PM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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How much of the pf cake are you using per grain jar? If I'm understanding this right, the more of the cake u use, the more innoc points u have, but, what's the magic ratio to still have the rapid colonization of the grains but not use your entire cake on one jar?
-------------------- Abe
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21927672 - 07/11/15 07:10 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bburnett227 said: How much of the pf cake are you using per grain jar? If I'm understanding this right, the more of the cake u use, the more innoc points u have, but, what's the magic ratio to still have the rapid colonization of the grains but not use your entire cake on one jar?
about 1/10th if im doing 10 quarts. really its by eye. and at the end if there is more leftover. i throw all of it into the last jar or two.
no matic formula, usually the pf cake breaks into susch small pieces that even 1/10th of a cake is similar to grain jar g2g.
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bburnett227
???

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#21928343 - 07/11/15 10:58 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you, sir. Gonna do this in a few days and just to be sure I read all this right, I'm not waiting for 100% consolidation, just 100% colonization, or visible growth, right?
-------------------- Abe
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21928665 - 07/11/15 12:21 PM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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it will not hurt if you use consolidated jars. if you want to be on the safe side. wait until 100% visible colonization. then fork your jars 2-3 days later.
personally, ive never used pf jars that have knotting. so, i would not advise letting the pf jar go that long.
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bburnett227
???

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#21928866 - 07/11/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you very much again. Will do
-------------------- Abe
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21964660 - 07/19/15 12:06 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost there.
1 pf jar was p2ged to 10 quarts of wbs grain.
intending to take some clone material to keep this cube variety.
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bburnett227
???

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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#21966654 - 07/19/15 06:57 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Starting this as we speak. Only downside is I'm gonna be using 16 pint jars since quarts don't fit in the pc. The other alternative thing is I'm using "wild finch blend..." Haven't read too much about this failing. Other shitty notenote, if ur gonna use wild finch blend, make sure strainer has super small holes...I got bird seed all over my sink right now Lol. Wish me luck!!
-------------------- Abe
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21966762 - 07/19/15 07:22 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bburnett227 said: Starting this as we speak. Only downside is I'm gonna be using 16 pint jars since quarts don't fit in the pc. The other alternative thing is I'm using "wild finch blend..." Haven't read too much about this failing. Other shitty notenote, if ur gonna use wild finch blend, make sure strainer has super small holes...I got bird seed all over my sink right now Lol. Wish me luck!!
so you basically have 8 quarts total. that should be good with 1-half pint pf cake.
good luck. and yeah they don't make strainers small enough for the smaller seed. i also use pennington finch seed from walmart. the key on straining out wbs is wire mesh strainers.
LIKE THIS

NOT LIKE THIS
 
generally the number one cause of failing with wild bird seed is overcooking it. when it turns into mush with mostly exploded grains after the pc cycle. do it again. don't even attempt to p2g if the grain looks like it has turned to mush. after the pc cycle i generally shake my jars when they are cool to the touch.
this is a good wbs prep method.
Fooman's Grain Tek
i add a dash of pickling lime to the boiled water bath. this helps get the gunk off the grain.
Edited by eatyualive (07/19/15 07:29 PM)
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bburnett227
???

Registered: 04/29/15
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#21966856 - 07/19/15 07:38 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea that's who's tek I'm using too. How long u pc For to avoid exploding seed? I got it going for 90 min. My pc only gets to 12 psi so I go along a little longer...
-------------------- Abe
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21966862 - 07/19/15 07:38 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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1 hour at 15 psi.
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bburnett227
???

Registered: 04/29/15
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#21966999 - 07/19/15 08:07 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Releasing the preSsure, instead of letting the pressure cool out, won't cauSE the seeds to blow, will it?
Update: in case I'M not the only dummy tihat worried about this...releasing the pressure slowly, manualy, does not Cause the seeds to explode.
-------------------- Abe
Edited by bburnett227 (07/19/15 10:53 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: bburnett227]
#21977131 - 07/21/15 07:32 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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here is the year old pf jar p2g transfer. colonized after 9 days. a little slower than normal speeds but not too bad for a jar sitting in the fridge a whole year. ill grow out this spawn and update the thread when the grow is complete.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#22055718 - 08/06/15 09:28 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost there.
1 pf jar was p2ged to 10 quarts of wbs grain.
intending to take some clone material to keep this cube variety.

Quote:
eatyualive said: here is the year old pf jar p2g transfer. colonized after 9 days. a little slower than normal speeds but not too bad for a jar sitting in the fridge a whole year. ill grow out this spawn and update the thread when the grow is complete.

update.
this is R44 from a year old multispore pf jar. it was sitting in the fridge for over a year. p2ged into 10 quarts then spawned to bulk with a casing. it looks ropey. pinning very fast. going to attempt to take some clones of this one. tore through that casing layer in a day. extremely vigorous growth for being stored for so long. impressive genetics.
Tub 1:
 
Edited by eatyualive (08/09/15 05:29 PM)
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DirdyD


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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#22068236 - 08/09/15 04:57 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Awesome.
Thanks, Eat.
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine



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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#22068365 - 08/09/15 05:23 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Year old pf jar kicking ass? Very good culture and resilience.
--------------------
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Alkaloids]
#22068389 - 08/09/15 05:28 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks guys. nature is quite amazing and resilient.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#22077253 - 08/11/15 04:43 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost there.
1 pf jar was p2ged to 10 quarts of wbs grain.
intending to take some clone material to keep this cube variety.

Quote:
eatyualive said: here is the year old pf jar p2g transfer. colonized after 9 days. a little slower than normal speeds but not too bad for a jar sitting in the fridge a whole year. ill grow out this spawn and update the thread when the grow is complete.

update.
this is R44 from a year old multispore pf jar. it was sitting in the fridge for over a year. p2ged into 10 quarts then spawned to bulk with a casing. it looks ropey. pinning very fast. going to attempt to take some clones of this one. tore through that casing layer in a day. extremely vigorous growth for being stored for so long. impressive genetics.
Tub 1:
 

so here is the r44 year old pf jar sitting in the fridge and p2ged to quarts. then spawned. not the best, but hey, no contams. being dunked for a 2nd flush now.

forgot to mention, the spores were from a spore syringe sitting in the fridge since 2008.
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Hook420
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#22456995 - 10/31/15 09:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost done
Loving this Tek.
I've read this over a few times, I don't get when you say a new p2g transfer was done. Does that mean you were using an old Pf jar an transferring for a yr. off one cake. Just g2g from that one cake. I know I read earlier you said to only make about 3 transfers from the pf to grain.
I didn't have my morning T yet today.
I know it's an old thread, but even if I'm reading into this wrong, this thread is Indeed Bump worthy.
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Hook420
Stranger

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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Hook420]
#22456999 - 10/31/15 09:45 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know what you quoted. All these years an I still can't get the quotes right on the reply
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azur
God of Fuck



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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Hook420]
#22457029 - 10/31/15 09:58 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hook420 said: You know what you quoted. All these years an I still can't get the quotes right on the reply
You hit the "quote" button. Then hit "enter" Then type yo shit
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Hook420
Stranger

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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: azur]
#22457088 - 10/31/15 10:15 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanx, guess I never hit enter. Anybody do this or got an answer before eats rolls out a bed.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Hook420]
#22460787 - 11/01/15 07:41 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hook420 said:
Quote:
eatyualive said: ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost done
Loving this Tek.
I've read this over a few times, I don't get when you say a new p2g transfer was done. Does that mean you were using an old Pf jar an transferring for a yr. off one cake. Just g2g from that one cake. I know I read earlier you said to only make about 3 transfers from the pf to grain.
I didn't have my morning T yet today.
I know it's an old thread, but even if I'm reading into this wrong, this thread is Indeed Bump worthy.
By new p2g I just meant that I took that 1 year old stored jar and p2ged it to grain. Once that initial transfer is done. I may spawn 9 quarts and g2g one quart to 10 more quarts. I tend to do g2gs about 3 times after starting from a master. In this case my pf jar Is the master. The thread ain't that old no worries.
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SpaceIsOnlyNoise
Ethereal Farmer

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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#23261564 - 05/23/16 12:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mind the bump, sorry. I have a couple jars colonized and I planned to use one for P2G. They were done with LI and they were ready a few days ago. Well I was busy all weekend with family visiting, put if off, and now they have lots of knots and pins. Now what?
I figure it will still be pretty effective even though my culture may be confused for a day. Perhaps I could slice off the pins, place cake back in jar and continue as normal? or maybe pluck them out of the mix with my fork or something? It feels wrong because it's trying to fruit, but I also really want to do this transfer.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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someone used pf jars with pins to blend and inoculate with a slurry with success. i don't see why it wouldn't work if your clean about your transfer. you don't want large fruits. but small primordia may be ok.
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Dankdoms



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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#24193614 - 03/26/17 01:53 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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This blew my mind!!! Thanks..will refer to it again..
-------------------- "You are a divine being. You matter, you count. You come from realms of unimaginable power and light, and you will return to those realms.โ
-Terence Mckenna
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JHOVA
Post whore



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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive] 1
#24721649 - 10/19/17 11:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whoops wrong thread
-------------------- ๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
Edited by JHOVA (10/19/17 11:02 AM)
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JHOVA
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: JHOVA]
#28183306 - 02/12/23 12:10 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Day 2 PEU

It came from this cake that was nocced with old ass spores 2 months ago in a vendor syringe. I didnt alcohol the fork per the tek. I torched the shit out of it.

Lets see if it works.
Edited by JHOVA (02/12/23 12:15 AM)
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Baba Yaga
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Re: P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: JHOVA]
#28183320 - 02/12/23 12:39 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Lol, this is a funny double bump.
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